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5161  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: October 23, 2013, 06:32:08 PM
rpietila, in general I think your table is roughly accurate. It matches quite well what I have in my head about the BTC holdings distribution. Thanks for sharing!

Perhaps you send your proposal as a table for all to see Smiley

[...]

If your estimate is correct, the bitcoin holding is even more top-heavy than in my calculation. Since you will have to add 100 holders in between 10-100k (100*30k) = 3.0 million to the equation.

Therefore all smaller holders would have <5 million, combined. Show me the results as a table! Smiley

#People#Bitcoinspoeple * avg
1BTC1m-1.5m1.25M
2BTC500k-1m1.5M
3BTC250k-500k1.125M
7BTC150k-250k1.4M
15BTC50k-150k1.5M
50BTC10k-50k1.5M
300BTC2.1k-10k1.85M
1000BTC100-2.1k1.1M
5000BTC10-100275k
10000BTC1-1055k
50000BTC0.1-127.5k
150000BTC0.00000001-0.17.5k

total sum of last column: 11,555,000 BTC

into the last column I put the avg("from", "to") * "# of people" . In below chart this avg was used for the blue bars.



pulled out of my ass and yes: it's extremely top heavy compared to rpietilas distribution.

It's interesting that the groups down to and including the "100-2.1k" group all sum up to pretty much the same amount. (I didn't manipulate this, it was a surprise to me). Maybe I'm underestimating the number of people in the lower groups ("0.00000001-0.1" through "10-100")? There's probably more that 10,000 people with holding of 1 to 10 BTC, no? I'm really not sure.

I somehow hope I'm completely wrong with this guesswork of mine.
5162  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 23, 2013, 02:58:01 PM
It's gonna crash hard;

wishful thinking
5163  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 23, 2013, 02:55:37 PM
Chinese people buy in chinese exchanges and then western people who are already familiar with the bitcoin buy in example bitstamp. Normal western people are not yet interested (google trends) but when we break ATH they will be and then everybody just BUY BUY BUY =D

It's also possible everyone who wanted to learn about bitcoin already did that back in april, and when it does hit the media those people will be like "meh, again? I'm not falling for this again!".

or they are better educated (bitcoin takes a while to sink in) and think: "fucking hell, this time I'm not missing the train."
5164  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 23, 2013, 02:54:36 PM
The fuel comes from CHINA!!! How hard is this to understand?

Good ol dirty communist rocket fuel. I love the smell!
5165  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 23, 2013, 02:53:45 PM
Google trends image. What exactly is fueling this rally? This tells me it's old money doing the same all over.





maybe there is a service called "baidu trends"?
5166  Economy / Speculation / Re: Poll: $190 or $210 in the next 24h? on: October 23, 2013, 10:58:21 AM
I voted 210, what did I win?

eternal fame!
5167  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 23, 2013, 10:58:05 AM
Once 210 is broken we have lift off.

up uP UP!


Are we not already in "liftoff"?

Yes we are!  Wink

no, still very much on the ground. But losing weight and exhausting lot's of smoke and fire!

EDIT:



You must have a KNC miner.
However; it's not only about mining!

Almost bough one last week, but calculated it would be too risky, so I didn't.

Why is this about mining at all? Please clear me up.
5168  Economy / Speculation / Re: Poll: $190 or $210 in the next 24h? on: October 23, 2013, 10:56:55 AM
I didn't vote, but I won peanuts for years to come! After selling at 202$, I understood there will be another upward move,
and bought back at about 203.5$, placed a sell order at 209.95 and went to sleep.
I sold while asleep and got the top (for now), that's a first for me. I only made peanuts, but it was fun.

Buy & hold is not the worst strategy at times like this.

You did well, though. Congrats.
5169  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 23, 2013, 10:54:35 AM
Once 210 is broken we have lift off.

up uP UP!


Are we not already in "liftoff"?

Yes we are!  Wink

no, still very much on the ground. But losing weight and exhausting lot's of smoke and fire!

EDIT:

5170  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading on: October 23, 2013, 10:53:53 AM
I have pending BTC and LTC withdrawal request since 15 hours. How long will it take?
5171  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Electrum - Bitcoin client for the common users (friendly and instant) on: October 23, 2013, 10:47:58 AM
why are all electrum servers I try "Server is lagging (47 blocks)"?
5172  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: October 23, 2013, 06:52:56 AM
I don't know why a tab in my browser is open with this link: http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/new-mystery-about-satoshi/

was it linked from here?

Highly interesting stuff about early mining (maybe signatures)
5173  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: October 23, 2013, 06:44:34 AM
just found an interesting link referenced from the thread I linke from above:


Diffusion of Innovations is a theory that seeks to explain how, why, and at what rate new ideas and technology spread through cultures.

I don't know if it applies to bitcoin holdings distribution.
5174  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: October 23, 2013, 06:32:06 AM
rpietila, in general I think your table is roughly accurate. It matches quite well what I have in my head about the BTC holdings distribution. Thanks for sharing!

What we need to make this analysis more accurate, is to gain answers to the following:

- Does Satoshi have access to the "mystery miner" keys or are they lost?

we won't know until he moves these coins. Afaik they are still sitting there (~1 million coins unmoved, see my post linked below for more exact data). I suggest we simply assume he still has access to them.

We use different meaning of the term "mystery miner". Back in 2011 there was a miner popping up with lots of power for a short period of time, noone knew who he was. He mined for a while, then disappeared. He was named "the mystery miner", or short: MM). Back then his coins remained unmoved for months. Not sure they're still sitting there (see spike in the following graph and click graph for more info)


(click for larger version and background info)

I also did some analysis on 2009 coins back in 2011: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37333.msg458441#msg458441

That whole thread contains relevant info to this discussion here, so the inclined might want to read a bit from it.


- What is the likely stash DPR controls

my guess is 100-200kBTC

- How many individuals have BTC100,000+ holdings in addition to the previous

This is hard to guess. I would guess: Satoshi (1 million), 2-3 friends of Satoshi (2.5 * 500k), about 3-4 early GPU miners (3.5 * 250k), about 5-10 dudes like DPR (7.5 * 150k). Sum: 4.25 million BTC.

- How many bitcoin investors there are in total.

This is very hard to guess. We can put an upper bound using the blockchain (number of addresses ever used) assuming they hold their keys privately. In early 2012 this was about 500k Addresses. Anyone have newer data? We can probably divide this by at least 10 due to people using multiple addresses (I'm pretty sure I used 200 addresses myself already).

The gaps are rather easy to fill with the law of large numbers, and probability distribution. Of course we need to reach consensus which one to use!

I agree. But first I'd like to try to collect more data and do more guessing / estimating. I will likely reactivate my bitcoin-abe database so I can pull some figures (like above-references 2009 coin age (maybe also 2010) and number of distinct addresses used). This might happen this weekend.

I have loads of ideas how to pull different kinds of relevant data from the blockchain... but these analyses are not simple to conduct.
5175  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: announcement: the international "when-bitcoin-reaches 1000,- $ party" on: October 22, 2013, 09:23:48 PM
Also the conference security needs to be in top shape.
I'm against having a sauna!
[...]
I had no intention to rant about that old stuff.. sorry.

I almost didn't post the little joke for exactly that reason. Didn't want to bring back those memories.

Very cool. It would be very interesting for me to know how you came up with these numbers.
I was wondering the same thing? Sources?

I will open up a new thread for this, and use community-researched numbers as starting points. It is quite enlightening, I promise.

I'm looking forward to that. I've put some thought into this distribution and it's change over time myself.
5176  Economy / Speculation / Re: Poll: $190 or $210 in the next 24h? on: October 22, 2013, 09:20:03 PM
This poll needs a third option, slow movement. If volume is low, price can't go up or down much.
And you should extend the question to 48h, just in case volume stays low (72h if volume will be very low).
After that, IMO 190$ or lower, although we might see a small bump to 205$ before the drop.
Tell that to everyone trading on BTCChina. Super-thin market depth and super-high volatility.

yeah, these guys are having fun trading back and forth at 0%. As long as they remain confident price will go up, all is good Wink
5177  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 09:18:55 PM
Too much bullish ... intermediate correction going into christmas now i think.

Major trend resumes in mid-January.

Would be ok by me, but seems unlikely.
5178  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 08:39:49 PM
I personally think what we see is a kind of bull-flag-like pennant. I know it doesn't match the pattern (no lower lows, no channel), but let's just say: I think the pennant will break upward (or already has) and trend will continue for quite a bit.

Ok, this one (my post was 18 hours ago) broke up.

A new such bull-flag-like pennant is forming.

I think it will also break upwards.
5179  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: announcement: the international "when-bitcoin-reaches 1000,- $ party" on: October 22, 2013, 12:35:08 PM
Berlin. Massive party but also donations accepted in bitcoin for a charity or charities that accepts them. Not just a woohoo we have a few bucks party.

I think that's a good idea. Have some ways/action at the party to give to different charities. That way we don't look as much like rich assholes.
5180  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: announcement: the international "when-bitcoin-reaches 1000,- $ party" on: October 22, 2013, 12:27:11 PM
Also the conference security needs to be in top shape.

I'm against having a sauna!
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