That is exactly what I mean by they got their community to drink the Jim Jones cyanide Koolaid. You really believe that lie.

Fungibility is not driven by anonymity but by making it impossible for anyone (even the miners) to alter the protocol.

Even today someone might refuse my cash if they don't like me, but my cash is still fungible.

Lol. First time I seen that emoticon. Hail the King of Troll.

Laughing can't hurt. Chillax guys.

You are not comprehending what I wrote in my prior two posts.

It is not the creation of patterns that is relevant, but rather the serendipity of the relevance of the timing of creating patterns. The entire point is that the universe is not deterministic. Thus no form of computation can be any more perfect than any other. What makes us human is what we evolve with the game of chance and that we don't need to have the right answer. We just are, for a little while any ways. The concept of a superior intelligence that is "correct" more often than any other, is futile because it isn't even wrong. There is no "correct". Our universe is game of dice. No intelligence can predict that which is random.

Kurzweil seems to not comprehend basic computer science either. He should know that as the programmability increases, the opportunity for non-determinism does as well. This is what the entire failure of The DAO is about.

The non-determinism of computation even comes into play for example as the distance between computing components increases (again because the speed-of-light must be finite, else nothing can exist). You can recall smooth and I discussing that in the context of Byzantine fault tolerance.

Computation is not a panacea. And computation is also subject to the non-determinism of our universe.

Kurzweil seems to just really be full of shit and trying to sell books. He doesn't understand basic fundamental issues of physics and computer science.

You are not comprehending what I wrote in my prior two posts.

It is not the creation of patterns that is relevant, but rather the serendipity of the relevance of the timing of creating patterns. The entire point is that the universe is not deterministic. Thus no form of computation can be any more perfect than any other. What makes us human is what we evolve with the game of chance and that we don't need to have the right answer. We just are, for a little while any ways. The concept of a superior intelligence that is "correct" more often than any other, is futile because it isn't even wrong. There is no "correct". Our universe is game of dice. No intelligence can predict that which is random.

Kurzweil seems to not comprehend basic computer science either. He should know that as the programmability increases, the opportunity for non-determinism does as well. This is what the entire failure of The DAO is about.

The non-determinism of computation even comes into play for example as the distance between computing components increases (again because the speed-of-light must be finite, else nothing can exist). You can recall smooth and I discussing that in the context of Byzantine fault tolerance.

Computation is not a panacea. And computation is also subject to the non-determinism of our universe.

Kurzweil seems to just really be full of shit and trying to sell books. He doesn't understand basic fundamental issues of physics and computer science.

Even on disk failure, some sectors can often be recovered with forensics. But then you need the storage providers' reputation at risk, so they have the economic incentive to pay for that forensics. Again it seems the Sybil attack is the problem, because they can blame the failure on a disposable Sybil.

Apologies for losing my couth in the prior post. I am a bit frustrated with people who follow Kurzweil. I ask them to please consider the point I have made about physics.

For A.I. to beat creativity, then perfection must be possible. Else A.I. has to become imperfect just like humans and nature, then it is no longer beating us every time.

It is really simple to understand that Kurzweil is dead wrong.

What else can I say?


Without creativity, then there is no value. What ever can be replicated becomes nearly free. The creativity is where all the value will remain. Our existence is a game of chance. Without the chance, there isn't a game. Poof its gone.


The destruction of the nation-state system is coming via a debt implosion. The destruction of the hierarchical structures of the industrial age, is coming due to technological disruption such as open source and a decentralized DAO concept. Anonymity seems to have nearly nothing to do with it as far as I can see.

IMO, spoetnik was correct about at least one point, which is that Monero was like a controlled delusion. See my and his prior posts for details.

They cleverly captured the desire to invest altruistically but they turned that into a Jim Jones cyanide koolaid Hotel California, where you can check in but you can never check out, because they convince you that all the other experimentation is useless.

Ethereum may or may not be a scam. Nevertheless I conceived of a decentralized DAO-like concept because of the failure of The DAO. That could end up being a very important concept, way more important than anonymity.

So I think it is wrong to not invest in those things you think will rise in price.

Nature is not a straight line. It is an imperfect zigzag annealing. No amount of perfect computation can know the future a priori perfectly.

See this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1342065.msg15383820#msg15383820

Since you appealed to authority (which is an invalid form of argumentation), then I am compelled to fight his reputation. Kurzweil is a certified idiot.

A.I. mastering the known sciences, has nothing to do with my point about where future creativity is derived from serendipity of chance meeting imperfection. If computation could replace the necessary finitenessnumerability of the speed-of-light and the necessary zigzag imperfection fitness annealing of nature, then omniscience is possible, the speed-of-light is infiniteinnumerable, and the past and future (light cones of relativity) collapse into an infinitesimal point of nothingness. And nothing exists any more. Kurzweil is a certified idiot!

You are too much off on this Kurzweil fantasy that has no grounding in physics. For Kurzweil to be correct, the speed-of-light would need to infiniteinnumerable (and then nothing non-static would exist), because his theory distills down to that computation can substitute for the serendipity of unbounded entropy. That he didn't realize this, shows he is a very narrow minded thinker.

[Tangentially, the reason we can't get to the edge of the universe is because mathematically an edge requires a bounded number of dimensions otherwise an edge is only a feature in the context from another perspective. Since every quantum of matter has a perspective (i.e. another dimension of reality, because history is only relative), a universal edge would require that the quantification of matter has a lower bound. We think of the possibility of an edge because we are constrained by the Uncertainty Principle to a lower bound on the quantization of matter dictated by the quantization of the speed-of-light which we can perceive. Our model of our existence necessarily includes friction and thus oscillation because otherwise there would be no lower bound and the past and future light cones of relativity would be undifferentiated and nothing (non-static) could exist. Yet this friction means no perspective can ever be omniscient over all dimensions which is thus contextually equivalent to unbounded dimensions. So the apparency of a lower bound is counter-acted by friction, so that we can exist in an unbounded future where it is differentiated from our past. Another way of stating this is that without friction then there would be no degrees-of-freedom for anything to be independent of anything else and we would all have the same total order perspective.] <--- Added Nov. 17, 2016

Don't repeat that fucking stupid nonsense to me again (because so many people have this misconception of physics and I get tired of repeating myself over and over again...it is like a battle of attrition). It is absurd incomprehension of the basic law of the universe, which the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Even Einstein admitted it was fundamental.


A.I. may compete but it won't replace creativity. But I don't see how that changes my points.


The corporate system is the old political system. The Bilderbergs are just concerned with how to maintain their hegemony and scaling their control to global economies-of-scale instead of national as it had been.

If we do manage to overcome their hegemony with for example a decentralized DAO concept, then we've solved the political problem and thus we don't need super powered anonymity. If we don't overcome their hegemony, then our anonymity can't withstand their hegemonic gaming of the politik.

---

Apologies for losing my couth in the prior post. I am a bit frustrated with people who follow Kurzweil. I ask them to please consider the point I have made about physics.

For A.I. to beat the unbounded creativity (i.e. entropy) of the universe, then perfection must be possible. Else A.I. has to become imperfect just like humans and nature, then it is no longer beating us every time.

It is really simple to understand that Kurzweil is dead wrong.

What else can I say?


Without creativity, then there is no value. What ever can be replicated becomes nearly free. The creativity is where all the value will remain. Our existence is a game of chance. Without the chance, there isn't a game. Poof its gone.


The destruction of the nation-state system is coming via a debt implosion. The destruction of the hierarchical structures of the industrial age, is coming due to technological disruption such as open source and a decentralized DAO concept. Anonymity seems to have nearly nothing to do with it as far as I can see.

Since you appealed to authority (which is an invalid form of argumentation), then I am compelled to fight his reputation. Kurzweil is a certified idiot.

A.I. mastering the known sciences, has nothing to do with my point about where future creativity is derived from serendipity of chance meeting imperfection. If computation could replace the necessary finiteness of the speed-of-light and the necessary zigzag imperfection fitness annealing of nature, then omniscience is possible, the speed-of-light is infinite, and the past and future collapse into an infinitesimal point of nothingness. And nothing exists any more. Kurzweil is a certified idiot!

You are too much off on this Kurzweil fantasy that has no grounding in physics. For Kurzweil to be correct, the speed-of-light would need to infinite, because his theory distils down to that computation can substitute for serendipity. That he didn't realize this, shows he is a very narrow minded thinker.

Don't repeat that fucking stupid nonsense to me again (because so many people have this misconception of physics and I get tired of repeating myself over and over again...it is like a battle of attrition). It is absurd incomprehension of the basic law of the universe, which the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Even Einstein admitted it was fundamental.


A.I. may compete but it won't replace creativity. But I don't see how that changes my points.


The corporate system is the old political system. The Bilderbergs are just concerned with how to maintain their hegemony and scaling their control to global economies-of-scale instead of national as it had been.

If we do manage to overcome their hegemony with for example a decentralized DAO concept, then we've solved the political problem and thus we don't need super powered anonymity. If we don't overcome their hegemony, then our anonymity can't withstand their hegemonic gaming of the politik.

New idea:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1501211.msg15383568#msg15383568

Kudos to Gmaxwell on the name then.

I have an idea.

What about a different approach to achieving redundancy.

Redundancy is fundamentally about making sure our data is stored on more than one hard disk.

If we could disperse the bits of the data across TBs of data, then the host actually has no incentive to cheat as the host can use RAID striping to maximize their performance.

So then we probably need a blockchain to manage this coordination.

I don't agree with those who think A.I. will replace human creativity. I wrote a blog post on that:

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#Algorithm_!=_Entropy

Until a computer learns how to become one with nature (i.e. the necessity of imperfection! c.f. my explanation that timespeed-of-light must be finite...), then it can't compete on creativity. And if it becomes one with imperfection, then it has no advantage over the human genome entropy in this regard (and the computer will need to consume resources as well). Sorry Kurzweil is wrong!

The key question to answer is what is the economic motivation of the corporation.

The corporation wants to amass as much power as possible as the oligarchy is a winner-take-all power vacuum. So the corporation wants to do what will maximize its global share of the economic profits. It wants to eliminate competition to maximize profits, but it must also allow degrees-of-freedom else creativity is lost and it will crumble under its own inability to adapt/improve (as Communism does).

The larger the corporation the less adept it is. Thus the larger corporations depend on their ability to use their control over politics and large capital, to swallow all the innovation of the smaller ventures.

So I continue to foresee large corporations pandering to the unproductive majority, for the power to steal from the productive minority. This is the Iron Law of Political Economics.

Your mistake is that for corporations to view their fees as sufficient, there must be a level playing field between corporations (i.e. their fees not raided). But there is not. Thus a collective will be required to decide what is fair, and of course the large corporations will game that politik. So the large corporations (i.e. the government by any other name) will not allow the smaller corporations to collect fees anonymously. Realize the individual will become a company. Companies will become much smaller and more adept. We are  moving to a do-it-yourself open source world, e.g. 3D printing.

If we solve the political problem, then we don't need anonymity any way. In an open source world, who cares who knows who my customers are. And the world is moving away from being ashamed when your grandmother knows one has some bizarre fetish. Your grandmother probably will have one too.

I think the world will view privacy as a pita. And focus more on creativity and maximizing production. Basic level privacy yes. Anonymity from the collective, I think is a pita.

I don't agree with those who think A.I. will replace human creativity. I wrote a blog post on that:

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#Algorithm_!=_Entropy

Until a computer learns how to become one with nature (i.e. the necessity of imperfection! c.f. my explanation that timespeed-of-light must be finite...), then it can't compete on creativity. And if it becomes one with imperfection, then it has no advantage over the human genome entropy in this regard (and the computer will need to consume resources as well). Sorry Kurzweil is wrong!

The key question to answer is what is the economic motivation of the corporation.

The corporation wants to amass as much power as possible as the oligarchy is a winner-take-all power vacuum. So the corporation wants to do what will maximize its global share of the economic profits. It wants to eliminate competition to maximize profits, but it must also allow degrees-of-freedom else creativity is lost and it will crumble under its own inability to adapt/improve (as Communism does).

The larger the corporation the less adept it is. Thus the larger corporations depend on their ability to use their control over politics and large capital, to swallow all the innovation of the smaller ventures.

So I continue to foresee large corporations pandering to the unproductive majority, for the power to steal from the productive minority. This is the Iron Law of Political Economics.

Your mistake is that for corporations to view their fees as sufficient, there must be a level playing field between corporations (i.e. their fees not raided). But there is not. Thus a collective will be required to decide what is fair, and of course the large corporations will game that politik. So the large corporations (i.e. the government by any other name) will not allow the smaller corporations to collect fees anonymously. Realize the individual will become a company. Companies will become much smaller and more adept. We are  moving to a do-it-yourself open source world, e.g. 3D printing.

If we solve the political problem, then we don't need anonymity any way. In an open source world, who cares who knows who my customers are. And the world is moving away from being ashamed when your grandmother knows one has some bizarre fetish. Your grandmother probably will have one too.

I think the world will view privacy as a pita. And focus more on creativity and maximizing production. Basic level privacy yes. Anonymity from the collective, I think is a pita.

The master plan appears to be to weaken Europe sufficiently that ISIS can overrun it. Then Russia comes in to rescue Europe and takes control.

The future world run by China, Russia, and oligarchs.

And BitCON's mining is controlled by China.

AnonyMint predicted it in 2013.

BREXIT is causing a an initial rush into gold, but it could transition into a rush into USD and US investments, which would then be negative for gold. Armstrong may not be incorrect on his prediction for lower lows in gold. We'll see...

Interesting discussion that originated from a discussion about anonymity:


What do we do with all the people who don't have a job? Harvest them for body parts in an efficient corporate world?

Costs go closer to zero (at least for tangible goods), so it is nearly free to give them basic needs, but still there needs to be a transfer of wealth from the productive to the non-productive in order to pay for it, no matter how epsilon it is.

Would corporations offer a signup program for indigent to exempt them from fees and thus the productive can pay for the indigent without needing to provide their identity?

What is the economic advantage for the corporation? Hmmm.

What do we do with all the people who don't have a job? Harvest them for body parts in an efficient corporate world?

Costs go closer to zero (at least for tangible goods), so it is nearly free to give them basic needs, but still there needs to be a transfer of wealth from the productive to the non-productive in order to pay for it, no matter how epsilon it is.

Would corporations offer a signup program for indigent to exempt them from fees and thus the productive can pay for the indigent without needing to provide their identity?

What is the economic advantage for the corporation? Hmmm.

That anonymity discussion continues here.

Continuing a discussion from another thread:


Politics of regressive taxation.

When you have one global corporation (a group of companies beholden to their collective oligarchy) charging fees, this is equivalent to taxation. They will charge their failures to the collective and keep the profits. It is just a world government by another name.

And I agree they will want privacy, except they will demand to have the masterkey to see everything.

I totally agree with making privacy technology for corporations. I was emphasizing that months ago in the Thoughts on Zcash thread.

Individual focused anonymity technology (i.e. resisting the "State" or collective outcome) has no market and no future (whereas privacy controlled by corporations does). I don't like this realization. I am ready to retire to some obscure place and ignore the world. (but first I'll try to make my technology contribution, health willing)

Note we are threadjacking the DAO hack theme. So if we want to discuss the tangent further, it would be best to start a new thread or move discussion to an appropriate existing thread.