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We need a low-level language. Most (all?) languages in ur list r high-level. Why? What's the difference? Once we have a low-level language we'll be able to use any high-level language to translate it into low-level one. Translation from high-level to high-level is much more difficult. So we agree then. Simplified machine language of some sort. Preferably one that already has compilers for C! Just add ability to make function calls that are implemented by processes running on hub servers. Saving state to blockchain and each forging node restores it. Might need to charge 1 NXT for each context, but I bet a lot of people will gladly pay that to make sure their withdrawals are verified on external blockchain!! James |
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We will see soon a real battle between NXT, eMunie and Ethereum.
Ethereum can get big launch like Ripple because it is backed by wallstreet banksters... but it is doomed from start just because of this fact and manipulation possibility and lack of ability to make it trully anonymous and untraceable.
Both other has a real shot just because of being independent hand-made system (non-corporation product) with help of common people's money feedback.
You can see NXT decline now, because of approaching eMunie launch already. But it will recover very fast because ppl always want buy cheap coins and to not be late for a hype.
Things which will be trully important to win this battle or be a step ahead will be:
- implementation of fluent, cheap and anonymous multi-currencies exchange
- coins mixing to hide currency and not be tracked by banks by default btc addresses (very important)
- nice easy to use wallet for non-geeks
- innovative features showing faster development than other cryptos and building a brand easy to remember
- cheapest and fastest possibility to exchange bitcoins for this second generation crypto
Who will create a such easy to use "black market 2.0" will be unbittable because of hype.
No promotion will be needed when it will kick off. Just being first or second will be important.
I have 100000 NXT bounty to solve your first item Actively working on adding zerocoin to NXT Four clients released already or soon to be Turing complete scripting discussed right now |
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Will the Turing code be able to invoke higher level functions like "escrow NXT from acct to acct", "release escrow txid", "send DOGE", etc.
I think it's a bad idea. The language should have simple operations with near-equal consumption of resources. In this case it will be easy to assess fee required for contract execution. Time used should be the key, maybe adjust it for CPU speed of forging node. Current swap state would need to be put into blockchain so next forging node can pick up where it left off, but we can limit memory space. I am envisioning services provided by code running on the hub servers, so it is feasible to have 20 different altcoind's running and ready to be called. Also, anything else we can think of can be encapsulated into a function call. Need to be able to suspend a script after time limit anyway, otherwise infinite loop will be bad problem James |
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I want NXT AE to be able to do trustless trading of all other cryptos. No more waiting for centralized exchanges to find the missing deposit/withdrawal, just trade with NXT and BAM! you get DOGE in your DOGE wallet. much trading
It this is build into the protocol and the minimum transaction fee is 1 NXT, we will get a LARGE amount of Chinese traders making 100,000 BTC worth of trades every day. High frequency traders are very sensitive to any fees they incur. A fully decentralized and automated exchange of all cryptos against NXT will instantly make NXT the reserve currency of crypto.
The point for Turing complete is to allow others to build useful solutions. The above is such a useful solution and we need it live BEFORE any other crypto enables it
I have already 100000 NXT bounty allocated for this, regardless of how it is implemented. XCP is the initial other crypto, but it should be modular so we can pop in any other crypto realtively easily.
James
How do you imagine to be able to trade BTC on the NXT AE without having a gateway? I saw other guys talking about trustless trading but without gateway how one would enter with BTC or DODGE or EURO value in the NXT AE? We have a gateway ready to launch as soon as the AE is released but thats not 100% trustless becuase people will have to get our assets, either in BTC or LTC or EURO(soon). This way we can have NXT Assets traded but its not completely trustless... The problem with colored coins concept, ripple, AE, XCP, all of them, is there is always the gateway that needs to be trusted. No offense to you, but this is fundamentally a single point of failure. I am talking about directly doing trades with other coins blockchains so there is no need for any trust. The code is open source and deals with the escrow process on both coins and makes sure each party gets the other coin. Some magic with multisig and timeouts can implement this, eg from URLs I posted. A simplified idea is to automate the functions of a gateway deposit and withdrawal. Put in escrow checkpoints (this is the hard part as funds need to get swept into a separate escrow acct) and the only thing you need to trust is that the software continues running. We can provide that assurance by making sure altcoind's are installed on 100+ hub servers and that the software that manages the escrow process gets runtime on these hub servers. I see the high level pieces, but I cannot solve all the details myself. The big problem is how to be able to set aside DOGE in a "global" account that can then be accessed by whichever node is the forging node when the time comes to finalize the transaction. I need help from some of the smarter guys here to figure this out. We will get NXT escrow ability, if anything from the NXTcash effort, so once we have that, the NXT side is done for this. Just need a way to do trustless decentralized escrow of BTC and other altcoins. James |
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Turing complete code executing is nice and flexible, but there still need to be useful solutions that are implemented based on this.
Let's just do it. Will the Turing code be able to invoke higher level functions like "escrow NXT from acct to acct", "release escrow txid", "send DOGE", etc. It would be great if the language had primitives for useful high level operations and made it so even incompetent guys like me can take a stab at writing some scripts. What about something interactive like FORTH? I dont really like it, but I think it would be really quick to implement. Any chance to make it run a subset of Java? The big problem that I see with DACs is reliably giving execution context to the scripts. That is really the issue, so why do we even have to lock down a language? Implement a VM with its own machine code (probably best to use existing simplified machine language) and then people can use any language they want as long as there is a compiler that emits the simplified machine code. The constraint on the execution time would be a time budget in addition to obvious memory limits, etc. Would that be too difficult for your team to do? It would be cool to see a small unix running within NXT  , very slow and expensive as it would need to allocate disk space using AM 1K blocks. Probably too crazy. It would be cool to be able to interactively test the scripts. Maybe even make it like having a console and issue one off commands? Make NXT an OS that can do things only a decentralized system can do. This probably ties into the grid computing bullet point on the potential features list. James |
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Hi here
One question is bothering me for a while: is there any plans to create a solution of accepting NXT in e-shop, etc.? I mean payment tool, like bitpay for example.
Now we are spending thousands of NXT for 1 minute on radio, while we could spend on payment tool development. Now we just spend our NXT on exchanges, in other words come like a squirrel in the wheel.
Or did I miss something?
There is 40,000 NXT bounty for project to accept NXT via standard shopping cart modules. wesleyh is working with another guy on this. James Thanks, it is what I wanted to know. Edit: What is the deadline for this, if it exists? I've been in contact with wesleyh about this, because I am working on it, too. At this moment he is building a new client, too, and giving that priority. He was kind enough to give me access to his work and give me tips on how to go about. My guy is currently testing and will report back once he is satisfied all is well and safe. After that the plan is to make modules for all existing open source e-commerce platforms. No ETA from my side yet, but I am hoping for a working model soonish (1-2 weeks). But that's just a wish on my part, I won't know for certain till I hear back from my developer. I meant deadline for the bounty, if it is. I just need several real world adoption cases to verify it solves the problem of websites being able to easily add NXT support |
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One company is already working on a trustless NXT-to-BTC-and-back gateway. URL please! That is nice, but XCP already has trustless BTC trading. We need more. What about all the other cryptos? Having a large selection is what makes bter and vircurex a place where many people trade. If we can trade LTC, PPC, XPM, XCP, DOGE, etc in a decentralized trustless manner, what percentage of centralized exchange volumes would move to NXT? Especially if it becomes the lowest cost way to trade? James |
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Of course, right after I say mixing can be unraveled, an article that says it can't I am no expert on any of this mixing, I just have more confidence in peer reviewed zeroknowledge proofs from zerocoin than some clever, but possibly vulnerable mixing. I think the larger public out there would also feel more secure with zeroknowledge solution, but maybe we can combine mixing and zeroknowledge? Mint zeroknowledge coins (NXTcash) with mixed NXT. James |
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Hi here
One question is bothering me for a while: is there any plans to create a solution of accepting NXT in e-shop, etc.? I mean payment tool, like bitpay for example.
Now we are spending thousands of NXT for 1 minute on radio, while we could spend on payment tool development. Now we just spend our NXT on exchanges, in other words come like a squirrel in the wheel.
Or did I miss something?
There is 40,000 NXT bounty for project to accept NXT via standard shopping cart modules. wesleyh is working with another guy on this. James James, how is the mixing implementation coming along? What we are working on is NOT mixing. Mixing can be unraveled. I am not smart enough to even attempt to understand all the advanced maths in the zerocoin alpha solution, let alone their upcoming improved version. However, I am smart enough to know that it is best to leverage what exists, so Jack Needles is in the process of porting the well documented Tutorial.cpp code to Tutorial.java Unlike incompetent me, Jack is clearly a competent guy and I have full confidence that he will be able to get it to work. Once this is working, I am counting on people much more competent than me, like Bloodyrookie and ricot to figure out how best to splice in the Tutorial.java. Whatever method we come up with will most likely directly be applicable with the upcoming zerocash cpp library. We can then make a testnet to see if anybody can identify who is paying who. Theoretically, libzerocoin uses the zeroknowledge proof, so we shouldnt be able to. At this point, we go into a holding pattern waiting for a new libzerocash CPP library. We convert to java, and test the new improved zerocash system. Still all on testnet, but this iteration is expected to go 10 times faster because we already went through the process. I don't want to touch the zerocoin algos with a ten foot pole. I know my limits and I even have a BS in math from a small university in california. My development plan does require some code to be written and then thrown away (the horror), but it is designed to MINIMIZE the time to market. Best case scenario is that we will get the cooperation of the zerocoin team and get an early release of the libzerocash, then we can avoid any prolonged holding pattern. Oh, once we verify that all this is functional and nobody can crack the cashflow paths, we can then port the libzerocash into Java and then submit the pure Java solution to jean-luc to integrate into a release. This is my incompetent plan that nxtchg says is impossible. Whatever. I am just pushing forward and planning to have a testable testnet with NXTcash in it as soon as possible, even if it is supposed to be impossible. Notice nowhere in my plan do I or anybody have to understand any magical zeroknowlege maths, maybe the guy who refactors libzerocash to Java will have to, but that is the final step and a refactoring. My assessment was that it would take much longer to decipher the maths and algos of zerocoin/zerocash and I like to be making progress instead of waiting, especially when there is a large overlap of things that we need to do at the higher level like NXT escrow. James |
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Hi here
One question is bothering me for a while: is there any plans to create a solution of accepting NXT in e-shop, etc.? I mean payment tool, like bitpay for example.
Now we are spending thousands of NXT for 1 minute on radio, while we could spend on payment tool development. Now we just spend our NXT on exchanges, in other words come like a squirrel in the wheel.
Or did I miss something?
There is 40,000 NXT bounty for project to accept NXT via standard shopping cart modules. wesleyh is working with another guy on this. James Thanks, it is what I wanted to know. Edit: What is the deadline for this, if it exists? I am encouraging cooperation as there are MANY different shopping carts and additional methods to support accepting NXT. Please get in contact with wesleyh who is in contact with the other guy and coordinate. You can all share according to how much each contributes. I will expect that the three of you will most accurately be able to determine an equitable split. James |
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Only a worry to those working on the VM, most users will never be concerned with it.
Imagine that u want to debug the byte-code of a transaction... That's where my knowledge is lacking... I don't understand how a concept like a programming language can be molded with the NXT platform. I'll do more research. I mean that debugging of stack-based code is more difficult than debugging of code working with arbitrarily accessed memory. Turing complete code executing is nice and flexible, but there still need to be useful solutions that are implemented based on this. As long as things like escrow, doing other crypto blockchain commands can be supported as early test cases, or even hardcoded primitives, that would be great. I want NXT AE to be able to do trustless trading of all other cryptos. No more waiting for centralized exchanges to find the missing deposit/withdrawal, just trade with NXT and BAM! you get DOGE in your DOGE wallet. much trading It this is build into the protocol and the minimum transaction fee is 1 NXT, we will get a LARGE amount of Chinese traders making 100,000 BTC worth of trades every day. High frequency traders are very sensitive to any fees they incur. A fully decentralized and automated exchange of all cryptos against NXT will instantly make NXT the reserve currency of crypto. The point for Turing complete is to allow others to build useful solutions. The above is such a useful solution and we need it live BEFORE any other crypto enables it I have already 100000 NXT bounty allocated for this, regardless of how it is implemented. XCP is the initial other crypto, but it should be modular so we can pop in any other crypto realtively easily. James |
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
As some guys who reviewed Nxt code already noticed it's quite easy to add new features to Nxt core. All that required is to add a new type/subtype and some code that processes it. After we start testing Asset Exchange I'll have a couple of weeks when I'll be fixing possible bugs mostly. It's quite a boring task and I have to switch to other (more interesting) things time to time to keep working at near-100% effectiveness. We (community) could add our own (not BCNext's one) feature to Nxt. I'm thinking of cloning main Ethereum feature - contracts powered with Turing-complete language. I ask the community if there is anyone who understands Ether concept deeply enough and could consult us.
PS: If Turing-complete language is a too tough task then we could pick some other feature.
Lets try I propose a TURING - COMPLETE COMMITTEE: CFB ANON NXTCHG BLOODYROOKIE JAMES Sorry, I am too incompetent to be deserving to talk with nxtchg, plus CfB can do this turing complete stuff in a week or two with his team. |
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
As some guys who reviewed Nxt code already noticed it's quite easy to add new features to Nxt core. All that required is to add a new type/subtype and some code that processes it. After we start testing Asset Exchange I'll have a couple of weeks when I'll be fixing possible bugs mostly. It's quite a boring task and I have to switch to other (more interesting) things time to time to keep working at near-100% effectiveness. We (community) could add our own (not BCNext's one) feature to Nxt. I'm thinking of cloning main Ethereum feature - contracts powered with Turing-complete language. I ask the community if there is anyone who understands Ether concept deeply enough and could consult us.
PS: If Turing-complete language is a too tough task then we could pick some other feature.
Being able to trade ACTUAL bitcoin, litecoin, DOGE, etc. using NXT will be a very powerful feature and put a dent into all the centralized exchanges. Maybe using AE and AM or maybe just directly. Need to do blockchain operations to all the other cryptos that are supported which is not as crazy as it sounds: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_tradinghttps://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_5:_Trading_across_chainsSince I am supposed to be technically incompetent, I think it would be a good thing for you to comment on whether this is impossible to do with NXT James |
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Hi here
One question is bothering me for a while: is there any plans to create a solution of accepting NXT in e-shop, etc.? I mean payment tool, like bitpay for example.
Now we are spending thousands of NXT for 1 minute on radio, while we could spend on payment tool development. Now we just spend our NXT on exchanges, in other words come like a squirrel in the wheel.
Or did I miss something?
There is 40,000 NXT bounty for project to accept NXT via standard shopping cart modules. wesleyh is working with another guy on this. James |
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One of the main reasons: Simplified Payment Verification (see the bitcoin whitepaper Section 8 ) becomes not usable. Since the miner will not verify whether a XCP transaction is valid like they do in bitcoin transactions, to check the validity of a XCP transaction, we have to track up to the very beginning (the address sent to burn address). This requires each client to download and keep the whole blockchain. In Ethereum, they seems to find a way to solve this problem. Detail can be found in their whitepaper: http://www.ethereum.org/ethereum.htmlPersonally, I don't think this is something will make Mastercoin/XCP not usable. It just increases the downloading and parsing time. Would it be possible to have a checkpoint file that is signed by the XCP devs that clients could load instead of the entire blockchain? For ease of use, this is almost a requirement as few normal people will wait for hours and hours for the initial sync up It's possible, but it will not be decentralized if there's a checkpoint. People has to trust the one who publish the checkpoint. However, I think it could be very useful to provide some trustworthy services keeping some snapshots, therefore most average users can choose to trust these services and shortcut their parsing and verification. Those trustworthy services cannot cheat others for a long time as long as there're some independent clients choose to verify transactions all by themselves. Could the network provide feedback on any checkpointed file to make sure it is valid? Presumably there will always be counterpartyd's that parsed the full blockchain, so before any checkpoint file is trusted locally and used, it could make sure it is valid by checking with the overall network. Assuming it is published on counterparty.co, matches sig, odds are very good it is valid, plus it is only for initial install. So, after quick install, check with network to make sure nobody goofed when uploading the checkpoint file. If it all checks out, then BAM! we saved 17 hours of blockchain sync time without any risk James |
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One of the main reasons: Simplified Payment Verification (see the bitcoin whitepaper Section 8 ) becomes not usable. Since the miner will not verify whether a XCP transaction is valid like they do in bitcoin transactions, to check the validity of a XCP transaction, we have to track up to the very beginning (the address sent to burn address). This requires each client to download and keep the whole blockchain. In Ethereum, they seems to find a way to solve this problem. Detail can be found in their whitepaper: http://www.ethereum.org/ethereum.htmlPersonally, I don't think this is something will make Mastercoin/XCP not usable. It just increases the downloading and parsing time. Would it be possible to have a checkpoint file that is signed by the XCP devs that clients could load instead of the entire blockchain? For ease of use, this is almost a requirement as few normal people will wait for hours and hours for the initial sync up |
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CfB,
How long would it take for you to implement an escrow API? Not sure of all the arguments I need, but at the high level:
escrow NXT for acct # -> [transaction id]
release escrow [transaction id] -> NXT is transfered to acct #
probably need a cancel escrow [transaction id] that only receiving acct # is able to submit without error.
I would imagine that on escrow, the NXT is sent to special acct and upon release (or cancel) it comes out of the special acct.
James
It's work for BCNext. He is supposed to implement this in Account Control. So we need to wait until April? It would really help our competitive situation if we could just get the ability to escrow NXT. Would begging help get it sooner? Ability to escrow NXT will enable adding zerocoin functionality, plus help with other ideas. James |
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In mathematics, a counterexample can be used to prove a statement is false. counterparty uses bitcoin as an underlying base protocol and it works just fine! |
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Um, it is more like 2.5% DAILY inflation One billion new DOGE per day If DOGE price stays the same, its marketcap just went up 2.5% that day James |
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Does anybody know what percentage of blocks the hallmarked nodes are forging? If the answer is a very high percentage, it would actually be a very good thing for what I am thinking of.
James
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