deliberately mis-managing another human's expectations about money makes a negative emotional impact on the victims.  This is what Matt did, this is what Pirate did, this is what Vescudero is doing.   Mis-managing expectations of many others in order for himself to profit greatly.

I will repeat myself nonetheless. If I break your window, I don't receive one satoshi from it.

There is no reason to secretly run a passthrough to a ponzi when it could just be a ponzi itself.  Either way, investors will lose their money, but if it is the operator's own ponzi, they make more.

vescudero, will you accept an escrowed bet about your default in the next 6 months?

Admittedly, Im not familiar with CAcert, so I dont know how strong proof that is. The link doesnt mean anything to me, perhaps you can elaborate on that? Other than that, there is nothing that proves his ID. Facebook link doesnt even work, and the rest would take a wanna be scammer a few hours tops.

That said, even if we were sure his ID were correct and not stolen, then so what? Its a step up from Pirate perhaps, but when was the last time a bitcoin scammer got convicted in court? Mybitcoin, Bitcoinica, Pirate, .. no one even got in trouble so far.


Now think that through.. if he doesnt have a businessmodel that pays for the 100% APR, then why oh why would he pay 300 euro per month just to get a good rep? Thats precisely what a scammer would do, not someone with a genuine profit model.

Did you notice a pattern in what you wrote? Those guys are anonymous, or are trying to be. Victor is not, and has never tried to be, he in fact posted a lot of information about him while making this offer.

He also explained that he is trying to build trust in the bitcoin world. What he is doing (accepting small deposits from a maximum of people in order to build relationships, rather than taking large deposits from a few people, which would be easier to manage) makes perfect sense: he is now trusted by a lot of people who have faith in his ability to keep his word.

He has not disclosed what he is doing with the funds, and I have not asked him. Maybe he spends some of his own money to pay the interests, after all, for 2.5kBTC that would represent about 300€/month, which could be worth a reputation of reliability. Maybe he is taking a measured risk and placed half of the funds in Patrick Harnett's deposit, which pays back 1% a week, in which case he would have to disburse around 200€/month, and could take a hit of 10k€ if Patrick defaulted fully. What I believe is that he will always pay back his investors.

Note a similarity here? Patrick uses his real name too. And so far, everyone seems happy with his way of doing business. As for Victor, I think Patrick takes measured risks only, and would be ready to liquidate some assets should a catastrophic event cause the loss of some of the funds that were sent to him.

What do you think would happen if Victor scammed people, voluntarily or not? Would he take the risk of having his name slandered? His online reputation is based on trust, he is a CAcert.org assurer (disclaimer: I am one too, even though I haven't assured people for years for lack of availability), and CAcert.org is based on trust into assurers that guarantee a person identity after checking state issued photo ids and have to keep a copy of the documents for years in case of a dispute. Victor can be easily located, we know who he works for in real life, he even gave more detailed information after Micon requested it (Micon, did your friend check that Victor is who he claims to be by looking into the internal directory?). The odds of him scamming people or even of not assuming a loss are extremely small.

Maybe someday we will learn that Victor deposited all or parts of the funds into one of the failed deposit, and covered the loss from his own pocket. I hope (for Victor) that this is not the case, but I would not be totally surprised if it happened.

You can call me naive, stupid or blind, but there is nothing in Victor's behaviour that raised any red flag as far as I am concerned.

They are just counting their gains and preparing the next sucker play.

Dude, I love how crazy you are.  Might I ask with whose loot would I be escaping?  And I'd be doing a shitty job of erasing my tracks if I deleted posts and pointed out that they were already quoted, inviting people to quote my posts, no?

Now, Tralfamadore, that fucker hid his tracks _well_.

"Long story short, we hear a story too good to be true... it ain't." - Lt. Aldo Raine

What you need to do hashking, is post a full report of how much you owe, who owes you etc.. List every account and amount (obfuscate usernames obviously) you owe. That way we can get a clearer picture of the situation and your ability to ultimately pay.

I never lied about risk, my statement showed where the funds were going.   Please show where I lied about risk.


This was in the original post.
The funds for the deposits will be used for lending out to other borrowers, investing in more mining equipment, bitcoin projects and other investments offered on the forum

Important thread. This fiasco we had with BTCST needs to become a prime example and people need to become more active in saying it out loud if they think something is a scam. The Wikipedia article needs to have something on this as well. Bitcoin is especially useful for ponzi operators so this needs special attention.

Of course we can't really get rid of these until we get rid of human greed, which might prove to be a quite difficult task. But what we can do is at least take a more active stance against scams and try to teach people as best we can. That's all we can do, and hope that people get smarter.

Luckily you forgot the h in your reasoning and that intentionally !!  If not, you entered a fraudulent contract, on which´s fullfillment you better not insist, or you too

may be asked about this syndrome ( didn´t even pirate tried to remember you of your brains? )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

Cheers Zyk

1. for those at the printing switch unbelievable high !
You are referring to the entire US monetary system, not specifically Social Security.

2. What are US Treasuries, as Benny himself doesn´t know what money is?
Debt. Have you ever heard of people giving out loans?

3. This is to be seen as a PPT , a ponzi on top of a ponzi !
No reason provided.

4. Those are only low at the bottom of the pyramid, at the top the returns are enslaving generations to be paid!!!!!!
Social security is a mixture of welfare and insurance. So someone who has a low income and lives a long life does get a high return, but most people retiring now are getting a return of around 3-7%.

5. It increases at the rate of coumpounding interest!
Compounding interest at 5% turns everyone into billionaires. It should be illegal =)

6. Who cares how the puppet is called , who can´t account for 1,5 trillion dollars?
No reason provided.

7. When thats the case its time - out...Germany knows what that means....you simpletons urgently need one...to see what your empire is ponziing abroad!
No reason provided.

There are only 2 positions that an invested person, SUCH AS YOURSELF, can be part of:

1) Coward, in fear of losing it 'all'....showing your constant public support for Trendon, so that YOU are paid out in the end based on accumulated brownie points.

2) Insider, with knowledge of what is actually happening, hence no reason for you to panic like the rest of the investors....acting smug and laughing at all of us, this entire time.

There is NO OPTION 3.... The 'Level Headed, Faith-having, Trusting option that has no fear'.

Pick a side.

No, I expect hashking to sell assets & borrow fiat (just like I am now having to do) in order to make good his contract with me in full, I expect my principle back asap or that is just straightforward theft & after everyone's principle has been re-payed, eventually the interest in full (48 btc) or that is fraud imo.

Don't mess with bitcoin.