[CLOSED] ★ VESCUDERO's Risk-free Weekly Term deposits at 1.5% ★

[Otoh]

@zyk lol

I propose these terms if anyone is interested, personally I choose to leave my funds with Victor but choose not to enter in to any bets, but I would be happy to act as an escrow if anyone wished though.

Vescudero will not default  - bet: Agree xxx BTC

Victor Escudero, Vescudero, will not default on the funds lent to him or on the interest due on them within the next 6 months. Funds covered are those listed in & added to his OP & a default is defined as being over 2 weeks late in paying out any interest or funds due.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89122.0;all

He may at any time change the rate of interest payed out &/or return any &/or all funds (with interest to date). He may close his offering at any time & if all funds & interest due has been payed then the bet is then classed as over & won.

Event date 2013 03 10
Bet deadline 2013 03 08

[1714866920]

1714866920

[zyk]

Sorry otoh,

you try to jump right to step 2 in Ghandi´s theorem, please make you first comfortable with step one.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66802.460     number 467

Thanks Zyk

P.S. When able to follow zykloogish at first sight, happily accept you as an escrow

[Otoh]

Sorry otoh,

you try to jump right to step 2 in Ghandi´s theorem, please make you first comfortable with step one.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66802.460     number 467

Thanks Zyk

P.S. When able to follow zykloogish at first sight, happily accept you as an escrow

I have no idea what you mean by 'h' & I have no interest in debating with you so there's no need to bother enlightening me, that was why I didn't respond to whatever you were trying to convey in the other thread & I expect that I shall be mostly just skipping your posts if you do respond & it's anyway off topic for this thread.

[VEscudero]

I have just payed out the interests for the running week. Have a happy weekend!

[OneEyed]

I just got back my principal back along with this week interests, just as expected.

This has been a hassle-free experience, and since I started when the offering was 2%/week, I received all-in-all 13.5% as interests during the course of those 8 weeks. Thanks Victor!

[phr33]

I have used this service for 4 weeks. Interest paid as agreed every week. Victor has responded professionally and quickly on all my PMs. I requested to withdraw my deposit along with this weeks pay outs. No hassle, full payment received. All positive experience.

Thanks Victor!

[Otoh]

After hashking defaulted yesterday, though it looks like he intends to make good starting Monday & I hope that he gets plenty of recognition for that if he can do so successfully, I requested a full withdrawal of funds from Vescudero because though I trust him I like many wanted all funds back under my direct control, I requested after the 24 hour notice required & assumed that the funds would be returned the Sunday following this one but Victor kindly agreed to send them back along with this week's interest today, this greatly reassured me & so I asked him to cancel my W/D if possible & keep the funds for the foreseeable future, I also apologized for messing him around & recommended that he deduct any costs these last minute changes had made for him from the interest.

A couple of hours ago I received back my full investment of 304 BTC plus the full weekly interest, I was his largest depositor by far & he returned everything even though he didn't need to at all & in a very professional & courteous way, when/if he opens for new deposits again I shall go out of my way to participate & show support for someone who has behaved above reproach.

[P4man]

Similar things were said (and at that time, probably true) about Pirate, HashKing, INAU, and whoever else has defaulted recently, its hard to keep track.

After all thats happened, if you still invest in a >100% APR undisclosed business model, you will only have yourself to blame.

[OneEyed]

Similar things were said (and at that time, probably true) about Pirate, HashKing, INAU, and whoever else has defaulted recently, its hard to keep track.

After all thats happened, if you still invest in a >100% APR undisclosed business model, you will only have yourself to blame.

Did you notice a pattern in what you wrote? Those guys are anonymous, or are trying to be. Victor is not, and has never tried to be, he in fact posted a lot of information about him while making this offer.

He also explained that he is trying to build trust in the bitcoin world. What he is doing (accepting small deposits from a maximum of people in order to build relationships, rather than taking large deposits from a few people, which would be easier to manage) makes perfect sense: he is now trusted by a lot of people who have faith in his ability to keep his word.

He has not disclosed what he is doing with the funds, and I have not asked him. Maybe he spends some of his own money to pay the interests, after all, for 2.5kBTC that would represent about 300€/month, which could be worth a reputation of reliability. Maybe he is taking a measured risk and placed half of the funds in Patrick Harnett's deposit, which pays back 1% a week, in which case he would have to disburse around 200€/month, and could take a hit of 10k€ if Patrick defaulted fully. What I believe is that he will always pay back his investors.

Note a similarity here? Patrick uses his real name too. And so far, everyone seems happy with his way of doing business. As for Victor, I think Patrick takes measured risks only, and would be ready to liquidate some assets should a catastrophic event cause the loss of some of the funds that were sent to him.

What do you think would happen if Victor scammed people, voluntarily or not? Would he take the risk of having his name slandered? His online reputation is based on trust, he is a CAcert.org assurer (disclaimer: I am one too, even though I haven't assured people for years for lack of availability), and CAcert.org is based on trust into assurers that guarantee a person identity after checking state issued photo ids and have to keep a copy of the documents for years in case of a dispute. Victor can be easily located, we know who he works for in real life, he even gave more detailed information after Micon requested it (Micon, did your friend check that Victor is who he claims to be by looking into the internal directory?). The odds of him scamming people or even of not assuming a loss are extremely small.

Maybe someday we will learn that Victor deposited all or parts of the funds into one of the failed deposit, and covered the loss from his own pocket. I hope (for Victor) that this is not the case, but I would not be totally surprised if it happened.

You can call me naive, stupid or blind, but there is nothing in Victor's behaviour that raised any red flag as far as I am concerned.

[zyk]

Similar things were said (and at that time, probably true) about Pirate, HashKing, INAU, and whoever else has defaulted recently, its hard to keep track.

After all thats happened, if you still invest in a >100% APR undisclosed business model, you will only have yourself to blame.

Did you notice a pattern in what you wrote? Those guys are anonymous, or are trying to be. Victor is not, and has never tried to be, he in fact posted a lot of information about him while making this offer.

He also explained that he is trying to build trust in the bitcoin world. What he is doing (accepting small deposits from a maximum of people in order to build relationships, rather than taking large deposits from a few people, which would be easier to manage) makes perfect sense: he is now trusted by a lot of people who have faith in his ability to keep his word.

He has not disclosed what he is doing with the funds, and I have not asked him. Maybe he spends some of his own money to pay the interests, after all, for 2.5kBTC that would represent about 300€/month, which could be worth a reputation of reliability. Maybe he is taking a measured risk and placed half of the funds in Patrick Harnett's deposit, which pays back 1% a week, in which case he would have to disburse around 200€/month, and could take a hit of 10k€ if Patrick defaulted fully. What I believe is that he will always pay back his investors.

Note a similarity here? Patrick uses his real name too. And so far, everyone seems happy with his way of doing business. As for Victor, I think Patrick takes measured risks only, and would be ready to liquidate some assets should a catastrophic event cause the loss of some of the funds that were sent to him.

What do you think would happen if Victor scammed people, voluntarily or not? Would he take the risk of having his name slandered? His online reputation is based on trust, he is a CAcert.org assurer (disclaimer: I am one too, even though I haven't assured people for years for lack of availability), and CAcert.org is based on trust into assurers that guarantee a person identity after checking state issued photo ids and have to keep a copy of the documents for years in case of a dispute. Victor can be easily located, we know who he works for in real life, he even gave more detailed information after Micon requested it (Micon, did your friend check that Victor is who he claims to be by looking into the internal directory?). The odds of him scamming people or even of not assuming a loss are extremely small.

Maybe someday we will learn that Victor deposited all or parts of the funds into one of the failed deposit, and covered the loss from his own pocket. I hope (for Victor) that this is not the case, but I would not be totally surprised if it happened.

You can call me naive, stupid or blind, but there is nothing in Victor's behaviour that raised any red flag as far as I am concerned.

Yeah , let those greedy angloamerican heroscammers eat cake ! They won´t even put a scammers - tag on their breed, cause its all newbies fault, to do their own due diligence !

At least there are some who don´t dare to deny the facts

They are just counting their gains and preparing the next sucker play.

Still hoping for some change, consequences and an stop to self - vested - interest - ignorance 

Cheers Zyk

[P4man]

Admittedly, Im not familiar with CAcert, so I dont know how strong proof that is. The link doesnt mean anything to me, perhaps you can elaborate on that? Other than that, there is nothing that proves his ID. Facebook link doesnt even work, and the rest would take a wanna be scammer a few hours tops.

That said, even if we were sure his ID were correct and not stolen, then so what? Its a step up from Pirate perhaps, but when was the last time a bitcoin scammer got convicted in court? Mybitcoin, Bitcoinica, Pirate, .. no one even got in trouble so far.

Maybe he spends some of his own money to pay the interests, after all, for 2.5kBTC that would represent about 300€/month, which could be worth a reputation of reliability.

Now think that through.. if he doesnt have a businessmodel that pays for the 100% APR, then why oh why would he pay 300 euro per month just to get a good rep? Thats precisely what a scammer would do, not someone with a genuine profit model.

[zyk]

Admittedly, Im not familiar with CAcert, so I dont know how strong proof that is. The link doesnt mean anything to me, perhaps you can elaborate on that? Other than that, there is nothing that proves his ID. Facebook link doesnt even work, and the rest would take a wanna be scammer a few hours tops.

That said, even if we were sure his ID were correct and not stolen, then so what? Its a step up from Pirate perhaps, but when was the last time a bitcoin scammer got convicted in court? Mybitcoin, Bitcoinica, Pirate, .. no one even got in trouble so far.

Maybe he spends some of his own money to pay the interests, after all, for 2.5kBTC that would represent about 300€/month, which could be worth a reputation of reliability.

Now think that through.. if he doesnt have a businessmodel that pays for the 100% APR, then why oh why would he pay 300 euro per month just to get a good rep? Thats precisely what a scammer would do, not someone with a genuine profit model.

You can talk to him even in your native language and in Europe we are registered at ours homes adresses...this is not the land of the scott - free scammmers as your wild - west

seems to be and we are respecting facts not groupthink, which is the most important reason why you fuck over yourselves in ponzis and we match savings and investment.

Got it groupthinkers???


Cheers Zyk

[zyk]

vescudero, will you accept an escrowed bet about your default in the next 6 months?

How many coins do you want to put where your mouth is ?

Am happy with otoh as escrow too now, as he is liquid enough for humble opinions.

Am recognizing that treasurys, deposits with Vescudero and bets involve risk exposure, but only in so far as you can trust yourself and  your own perception

to be congruent with reality.

But there are still a lot of forum members, who think, that discounting lies of borrowers and lenders is part of due diligence. I heavily oppose this !

Ready to put up?

Thanks Zyk

[zyk]

oh sorry,

Loup Garroux apprently can´t be part of the crooks own empire....

Still not all hope is lost

Cheers Zyk

[OneEyed]

Admittedly, Im not familiar with CAcert, so I dont know how strong proof that is. The link doesnt mean anything to me, perhaps you can elaborate on that? Other than that, there is nothing that proves his ID.

See http://wiki.cacert.org/FAQ/AssuranceByCAP if that helps you understand how it works. You can also follow the links, and see that an assurer must go through a more thorough ID verification than regular people, as he needs to get more points by more assurers.

Go back in the thread, and you'll also find someone who checked his ID in person at a Spanish bitcoin meeting, as well as links to a colloquium where he spoke, with pictures and all. The PGP key he uses is 18 months old and is signed (which implies photo id verification too) by prominent free software developers, faculty staff, etc.

Except by meeting him in real life and checking his id myself, I could not be more convinced than I currently am that Victor is who he says he is!

[nimda]

Admittedly, Im not familiar with CAcert, so I dont know how strong proof that is. The link doesnt mean anything to me, perhaps you can elaborate on that? Other than that, there is nothing that proves his ID.

See http://wiki.cacert.org/FAQ/AssuranceByCAP if that helps you understand how it works. You can also follow the links, and see that an assurer must go through a more thorough ID verification than regular people, as he needs to get more points by more assurers.

Go back in the thread, and you'll also find someone who checked his ID in person at a Spanish bitcoin meeting, as well as links to a colloquium where he spoke, with pictures and all. The PGP key he uses is 18 months old and is signed (which implies photo id verification too) by prominent free software developers, faculty staff, etc.

Except by meeting him in real life and checking his id myself, I could not be more convinced than I currently am that Victor is who he says he is!

Food for thought: do you know who MNW is?

[OneEyed]

Food for thought: do you know who MNW is?

I know his name. And I also know he thinks he is out of touch because he apparently lives somewhere in South Korea. Spain and the USA are hardly comparable in terms of reachability.

On the side note, although Matthew scammed many people with his "bet", he didn't receive one satoshi out of it, so the damages are limited. But discussing this would be clearly off-topic here.

[nimda]

Food for thought: do you know who MNW is?

I know his name. And I also know he thinks he is out of touch because he apparently lives somewhere in South Korea. Spain and the USA are hardly comparable in terms of reachability.

On the side note, although Matthew scammed many people with his "bet", he didn't receive one satoshi out of it, so the damages are limited. But discussing this would be clearly off-topic here.

I will repeat myself nonetheless. If I break your window, I don't receive one satoshi from it.

lol why is anyone pissed?

everyone knew he wasn't going to pay up.
no one lost money.
and he got the scammer tag.

probably a lot of people's bets were for 10 times more bitcoin then they actually had, you know just for the off chance that MWN is retarded and did pay out.

I bet (heh) that people did lose money.

1. Investor notices the bet thread
2. Investor notices TYGRR-BOND-P is trading at 0.1 BTC
3. Investor buys 1 share
4. Investor bets 1 BTC
5. MNW exposes the "loophole"
6. Investor is forced to sell his share again, at a loss of 0.04 BTC.

Just because MNW didn't gain doesn't mean others didn't lose. If I break your window, neither of us gain. I'd still be an asshole though, especially if there's no recourse you have against me.

[zyk]

Food for thought: do you know who MNW is?

I know his name. And I also know he thinks he is out of touch because he apparently lives somewhere in South Korea. Spain and the USA are hardly comparable in terms of reachability.

On the side note, although Matthew scammed many people with his "bet", he didn't receive one satoshi out of it, so the damages are limited. But discussing this would be clearly off-topic here.

I will repeat myself nonetheless. If I break your window, I don't receive one satoshi from it.

lol why is anyone pissed?

everyone knew he wasn't going to pay up.
no one lost money.
and he got the scammer tag.

probably a lot of people's bets were for 10 times more bitcoin then they actually had, you know just for the off chance that MWN is retarded and did pay out.

I bet (heh) that people did lose money.

1. Investor notices the bet thread
2. Investor notices TYGRR-BOND-P is trading at 0.1 BTC
3. Investor buys 1 share
4. Investor bets 1 BTC
5. MNW exposes the "loophole"
6. Investor is forced to sell his share again, at a loss of 0.04 BTC.

Just because MNW didn't gain doesn't mean others didn't lose. If I break your window, neither of us gain. I'd still be an asshole though, especially if there's no recourse you have against me.

Has this any implications to the topic of this thread?

Is MNW CArated ?

Is Victor the perpetrator of TYGRR-BOND-P ?

Are you able to call a duck a duck?

Please let me in

Thanks Zyk

[johnlu]

Admittedly, Im not familiar with CAcert, so I dont know how strong proof that is. The link doesnt mean anything to me, perhaps you can elaborate on that? Other than that, there is nothing that proves his ID.

Go back in the thread, and you'll also find someone who checked his ID in person at a Spanish bitcoin meeting, as well as links to a colloquium where he spoke, with pictures and all.

P4man, those words are about me. I saw vescudero ID card issued by Spanish state and his driver license. He saw mine too. As you already know I'm identified in bitmit and you bought some pendrives from me.

We can discuss about this is a good business model or not, all of these stuff are just guessing. But, for me, otoh, and many others bitcoiners in Spain, vescudero is the person he says to be.