Auroracoin is an interesting approach of provably giving most of the the coins away equitably for free in a non-wasteful procedure. Last time I checked it was trading at $40M post-airdrop marketcap.
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2018 $18,000 (US votes for BitCoin backed Dollar)
As in "The FED announces it has all USD backed by 18kUSD BTCs"? Do the math how far off you are even if they had 21 million bitcoin by that date. That would put US M1 to 21MɃ * 18k$/Ƀ = 378G$ << 2.7T$Good point math champ! Question then, if BitCoin were to replace 100% of the world's fiat tomorrow, how much would 1BTC be worth in USD? Define the world's fiat and do the math yourself. The world is valued at 400T (trillion) USD currently. Because USD will die, we can only use the relative figures. Most of the financial system serves absolutely no legit purpose (except to siphon wealth from producers to puppetmasters via innumerable methods). When all that is destroyed, BTC can perhaps store 25% of value, which is 100T at current prices and would be 8M per bitcoin in purchasing power. (I would use 5 million to be on the safe side) |
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I tried to withdraw $1.5 million. You are obviously a troll.
Please proof, screnshot ? So what I say is a Screen shot or GTFO...
ok..  |
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does anyone know if the withdrawal on bitstamp is working now?
Yes it is working. Attempting to pull a larger amount of money, the same as MtGox  I'll wait for money 3-4 month or much more. I tried to withdraw $1.5 million from BS, and ran into a previously unannounced KYC check. After completing it, they let me withdraw the whole amount. They always acted very rapidly and courteously. I have not tried BTC withdrawal now, I have sold all my BTC there because it is ridiculous to think price can stay >600 for long. You are obviously a troll. Just wanted the others to see that Bitstamp gives out the money as promised. |
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I feel 500 falling  |
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Another possible option is somebody had a huge bet based on the goxbtc price at some derivative market & gained more from shorting than they lost tanking the price.
Now we are talking.. |
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ppl seriously, someone would explain me slowly, what's the point continuing trading goxBtcs at 70%+?
where is the business case?
this is an absolutely great deal for the seller of the GoxBTC:
- he reduces some risks associated with Gox
- he gets a liquidable BTC and can sell for tripple price on Stamp (if likes to).
and a super risky thing for the gox buyer:
- he exchanges he's liquidable btcs for a nonliquidable btcs
- he exchanges high-value asset for a low-value eqvivalent.
so it's an absolutely imbalanced supply-demand deal. The one's owning a real BTC could push for much lower prices! (30-40% let's say).
in fact, someone having some cash at gox could have made a really nice business, by cash-> buy-low-value-gox-btc -> exchange for hihg-value-btcs -sell at bitstamp.
Or? am i seeing something wrong?
If you ask me, the market of goxBTC/realBTC is the professional market where people are able to price things according to at least fair market information. The market inside Mt.Gox between goxBTC/goxBux is one, where: - Nothing resembling truth is ever told to ordinary market participants. - Both items of trade are fictional, ie. they have no real world equivalent and whether, when, and how much they have value, is fully known to Gox alone. - Market is kept open despite that in these circumstances it should be closed - there is no legit reason for keeping it open, but doing it serves the ongoing fraud. TL;DR: Hapless owners of goxBTC (the ones who have not even heard that Gox never pays out any fiat) are selling to get out, and will be crushed when the whip lashes to the other direction (and not even get their fiat/btc out without paying even more. |
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Well, this is unfair.
Hi, I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I will have to take some time to address the issues. |
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I, on the other hand, also feel a bit good about that.
If you are the type that feels good for your daughter getting raped in a dark alley - after all she is stupid, lazy and the alley was dark - then by all means feel good for the life BTC savings that many lose in this debacle.  Not only are they still criminals, your daughter was also raped and you are an idiot. |
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super Mr. Node, but you also have over $100k stuck on Gox at the moment and are a good case study for someone who has been around long enough to know better than to trust incompetence, but to have trusted it anyway - a trait shared by many Gox traders it seems. Yes, I am terribly naïve, I know that. But the same trait let me buy into bitcoin at the time when most people in the world, or even my friends, did not do it. Still, blaming the victim is not only lowlife and disgusting, but also against legal tradition. The conman is punished, not the victim. How did you get it the other way round?  The sum at Gox when I made it clear to them I wanted it all out (Jan 10) was over $1,000,000. The realized losses after getting it out were over $150,000. No, I don't have material value in Gox atm but situation may change. |
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If any one of you has friends that want to sell their goxBTC for goxUSD because "everything is over", let me buy them instead for realUSD. At least he gets the money, and easily more than the gox rate of 282.
My question to you is are you going to continue to use Gox once you get your BTC back from them? I am very curious how many of these hapless Gox traders will continue to use that exchange once Gox goes back to "normal." Hell, no. Never again. I just buy the goxfiatusd/goxfiatbtc for something of universal value. Then sell them to the ppl who want to buy at 65-70% and make a cut. My edge is that I am doing fully legally compliant, 11-year old company, all currencies, all conversions, gold&silver OK, speak English. After all, I'm a supernode, and they have these kinds on things and know how to use them  |
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What is being manipulated, is the media.
- Gox has not been telling about its problems anything, ever to its general userbase. Now it is starting to make sense.
- Media is telling, esp. in the days to come, that Bitcoin is crashing and is finished.
- Most of Gox customers (by number at least) still have no picture what is happening in there. Many don't even follow any price (or any other price than gox), and if they are tempted to sell before it goes to zero, gox is their only way to sell.
- They might think that "at least they get the USD out". Well, that they most surely don't do.
- I believe this explains why goxbux is trading at such a premium even though the professional market (goxbtc/btc) is only pricing gox failure at 10-15%.
If any one of you has friends that want to sell their goxBTC for goxUSD because "everything is over", let me buy them instead for realUSD. At least he gets the money, and easily more than the gox rate of 282.
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but I could find no report of Sepa transfer still stuck after 6 weeks, like I'm experiencing now
A SEPA transfer usually takes 1 day to clear. Yes, but Gox supposedly has a quota of 200k EUR per day of SEPA transfers. (It used to be 100k per day, and this was confirmed by someone who actually called their bank in order to ask - I don't know if the bank actually divulged information about Gox (I think that would be illegal) - but probably they asked what kind of limit would a foreign business opening an account have.) For comparison - I casually made a SEPA transfer of 1,000,000 euros from my personal account to a company in a different country. |
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whats to stop gox at buying bitcoins at its low rates and selling off on other exchanges ? just wodering
Against law. And when asked, Mark has said he knows it and that they are not doing it. |
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it takes balls even to sell at an ATH.
Not to mention that most of the time it indeed is stupid |
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What makes you think that trend reversal should occur on high volume on this short a timescale?
We are not clear yet. I sold between 650-700 and have more sales going on. I have admittedly always been early with my selling during this bear trend, but now I am only selling the coins I bought back cheaper.
Seems to be a violent reaction to the oversold condition.
All will be revealed in the coming hours. Bitcoin right now is wildly overbought......a trend along the $700 line followed by a brutal sell-off, or just a plain old brutal sell-off that that skips the water-testing trend phase and i guess you will be proven right. But anything less than a vicious sell-off down to low $600s, high $500s and I would be tempted to change my stance from bear to bull...at least for a little bit to see how things progress. On the otherhand, from my TA 101 skills, I wouldn't expect the bottom in such a long winded (in Bitcoin terms) bear trend to come with such a flash and a bang, but rather be ground out over a period of time, offering plenty opportunity to pick up coins near the true basement. This holds true for most markets that are in the condition that Bitstamp has been in for the past 5-6 weeks and certainly holds true for the bear stagnation periods in the aftermath of the June 2011 and April 2013 crashes. If $540 does indeed turn out to be the bottom, market participants would have had a tiny frame of opportunity to pick up coins close to this range on both recent occasions when this price range was visited. I am fully prepared to wait until the end of March to see the final capitulation. Many things can happen meanwhile - we can see a rally, for example. In end of December, I sold a lot at 600-700, followed by a rally to 990. Still in the grand scheme of things my prognosis seems to have been accurate so far. The daily average of Dec 18 (the day of the great dip to 382), was 527. Today is the lowest daily average since that, at 615. Trendline is at 682, so we are a meager -0.045 below the trend. Last capitulation bottom was -0.341. Just assuming that we get to the same oversold condition of -0.341 in March 31, 2014, the figures would be: - trendline price: 938 - actual price (daily average): 428 |
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When the bankruptcy is executed, the BTC IOU's are assigned fiat value according to the day of bankruptcy. So the cheaper they can push them, using all the methods available, the less they owe. Legally, Gox can pay all that is owed, but the 2 years the court process takes, makes all the difference on who holds the goodies in the end.
You make some good points, but there is no way a court will use the Gox price when they set the market value of the BTC. For this plan to work they will need to somehow crash the price at the other exchanges as well. If your theory is correct we will see someone dump huge amounts all over the place and then have Gox declare bankruptcy. When I lift my eyes, this is all I see around me... |
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What makes you think that trend reversal should occur on high volume on this short a timescale?
We are not clear yet. I sold between 650-700 and have more sales going on. I have admittedly always been early with my selling during this bear trend, but now I am only selling the coins I bought back cheaper.
Seems to be a violent reaction to the oversold condition.
ADD: You have to take into account the risk that you are wrong. In normal conditions, the risk is that you lose out on an explosive upside. Here it is that you lose out on a dip to $102 or $302, which already happened in other exchanges. Under certain scenarios, BS will join the crowd, and you double your coins. Under no scenario, it is going to ATH overnight.
I also presume that BS reaction was exacerbated by the unwillingness of people to deposit when there is no withdrawal, which makes it prone to a demand shock.
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Considering that this thread used to be important info source (given total and utter lack of honest communication from Gox side), I plead the forum administration to impose a minimum 3 months account in order to post here. This trollflood restricts quality posters because they don't want their valuable posts to be flushed down with the turds. It is interesting the goxBTC is trading at only 50-60% of bsBTC. Have you thought about the following scenario: It makes sense for Gox insiders to sell, because they know whether Gox will go belly up or not. If it is scheduled to go belly up, they have stolen all the actual BTC there long in advance. What they are selling is Gox IOU's for BTC that they exchange for Gox IOU's of dollars. When the bankruptcy is executed, the BTC IOU's are assigned fiat value according to the day of bankruptcy. So the cheaper they can push them, using all the methods available, the less they owe. Legally, Gox can pay all that is owed, but the 2 years the court process takes, makes all the difference on who holds the goodies in the end. If for example, BTC1,000,000 was owed (amount can be even larger - my personal high point was about BTC7,000 in Gox last year, and I am some sort of knowledgeable about Bitcoin services compared to many large holders that I know), and the price is $200, the principals can appease their conscience by paying $200 million. It is not inconceivable that BTC = $100,000 by then, which means that they have completed a heist worth BTC998,000 with incalculable fiat value, because such stashes are not for sale. It is unlikely that Mark could be the mastermind.. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. |
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Btw. should I send the trendline points at the time of their calculation?
The current trend did not of course apply at any past time because they did not have all the data.
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