we end up with inferior and less knowledge than if people had the freedom to determine for themselves when and how their resources should be deployed.
We end up with different knowledge and technologies, probably. Maybe there would be some kind of electro-mechanical internet precursor. The point is we don't know. They take the resources, stuff gets made/invented. Of course some of it is good and useful. But we have no idea what was sacrificed because it never came into existence because the resources were redirected. With no cost comparison good decisions cannot be made. This is really just the socialist calculation problem.
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You don't easily change a protocol constant. Agreed. If we can find a workable algorithmic block size, it makes sense to adopt it earlier rather than later. I have never understood the argument that when transaction numbers rise you can pay a transaction fee for priority, or use free transactions which will get processed "eventually". It makes no sense. If the average number of transactions per hour is more than six blocks worth, the transaction queue will grow and grow and grow without bound, transaction fees or not. Something like making the max block size increase to 110% of the average size of the last 2016 blocks seems good. I thought at first that spam would grow unlimitedly, but it won't if just a few % of generators refuse to include it. Generators themselves don't have incentive to bloat blocks, both because it will cost them in future disk space, but also because bigger blocks reduce the fee in equilibrium. Should max block size ever decrease? I don't think so, but way way down the road it might be a problem.
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Bitcoin ... is a currency like any others But ... Bitcoin is a currency totally different from all the others! Establish rapport with the audience, help them understand it. When you say it is a money, they assume it is like all the money they have ever heard of, now you need to tell them how it is a different money. Really we need at least three kinds of explanations. Stone simple (grandma click there). Technical (seriously, it works, here are the details). Economic (this is what makes a good money). And probably different levels of each and maybe different combinations in various types of presentations.
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Actually I think i remember Satoshi or Gavin saying that it actually is a quite easy change as bitcoin was designed so that decimal places can be added indefinately.
Wasn't me. I don't remember Satoshi ever writing something like that, but I'm really good at forgetting things. I agree with ribuck, if we ever need more than 21quadrillion bit-atoms, encoding more using the unused high bits in the 64-bit number will work nicely. That would be a very nice problem to have. No doubt. Right there with "Oh, no, will all of my yachts fit in my private bay?"
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@da2c7
Why would a generator refuse a transaction with any amount of fee if s/he can still add it to the block?
A bank doesn't need to mind with transactions the way you suggest. All transactions in between its clients don't need to be real bitcoin transactions, they can be just updates in the bank database. The bank would only need to send transactions to the chain when transferring from/to an "outsider" address.
Some will, that is charitable, but most aren’t that charitable (and this is a good thing). I think that an analogy is in order. A man runs a bakery; he bakes a certain amount of goods early each morning, and sells them throughout the day, when he has leftovers he may reduce the price to flog the bread off, or may take it home for his chooks to eat. The fallacy that this entire discussion has been trapped into is the assumption that the ‘selfish’ thing is to accept every transaction, no matter how small the fee is, rather that is ‘altruistic.’ The real selfish thing is to accept whoever pays into the block. See most that run bakeries know that most people buy the bread anyway, cheap or not. They just wait until the end of the day when it is on sale. That is why it is (more) profitable to take the bread home for you chooks. Both bakeries and generators work on the lovely formula: Average Price = (Total Cost + Profit) / Average Sales. On banks, banks will allow members free or cheap transactions for personal use, if they report the transaction to the bank. I think there is an important difference. When one generator is faced with deciding to take tiny fees and fill up the block or leave them will compare the immediate gain of fees to his future loss via the general reduction of fees. But unless he has significant market share this general influence will affect other generators more than himself. <here I paused to think for several minutes and almost deleted my post> I was thinking that he should ignore the influence on other generators and simply calculate how much on average he expects fees to rise by keeping the cheapest fees out of his blocks and see if it is worth it. But then I realized that he actually benefits from reducing fees because they will remove marginal generators and decrease difficulty resulting in him generating blocks more quickly. And he will keep these particular small fees from going to a competitor as well. I still can't say for sure, but I think the best strategy will be to accept all fees. The bread story is not so good because almost everyone prefers the morning bread and won't wait just for a discount.
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It is not a random search. Myriad factors conscious and unconscious, human and otherwise determine what is explored and how. When a small group redirects massive amounts of funds either to their own desired research or to research that merely sounds productive we end up with inferior and less knowledge than if people had the freedom to determine for themselves when and how their resources should be deployed.
"Useless" isn't quite the right word though. You can steal and put something to some use. But there is undoubtedly huge loss when the people who have the ability to create resources are stripped by force of their ability to allocate those resources where they think they will be most productive.
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You could make an option to group them by some increment to make it easier to digest though.
I'll add such a feature within the next days. There doesn't appear to be a donate address anymore, is this on purpose?
I have enough bitcoins, they're better spend elsewhere ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Okay, I'll have to find something else to do with them then ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Again, very good looking and useful site.
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New feature: Order book display for bcm and mtgox. @bitcoinex: Where can I found your order book? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Wow, it's looking very good. The order books are great. You could make an option to group them by some increment to make it easier to digest though. ffs, it's about time mtgox gives us all the data. There doesn't appear to be a donate address anymore, is this on purpose?
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http://nhunderground.com/forum/I have an ad already showing on nhunderground for one of my sites. as far as cost goes there are a lot of sites where it is zero$ to display ads. Searching "liberty" on project wonderful doesnt get many results so what other suggested keywords are worthwhile? agorism, freedom, anarchy, voluntar(y)ism, currency, gold? individualism, individualist, anarcho-capitalism, mutualism, p2p.
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Will he let you transfer to 'other' people? <hint, hint>.
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Oh, yeah, I agree. It only makes sense for small businesses/small sales now, but it will/is ramping up.
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In a future with a successful Bitcoin, most generation would likely be performed at a net loss by persons or institutions with the most interest in Bitcoins security.
No! Thats a tragedy of the commons situation. It just doesn't work. If Bitcoin will have to rely on that it's doomed. Hmm, I can't think my way out of this problem. It's not a TOC situation because of the fees, as blocks go unsolved, fees accumulate, increasing incentive to solve. People need not generate at a loss for bitcoin to work. Though maybe with some definition of 'loss' some people will anyway.
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agree with the 2 words of Economic Growth
And this can work via a twofold strategy:
1) enable more people to buy bitcoins in a very simple way 2) in parallel offer more and more ways to spend them
Currently, about 1000 people could have 4,600 bitcoins = 1,200$ each and this equals the entire amount of BTC and economy. This is jokingly small .
Of course they can't get them all at that price. The first 100 people will have pushed the price up considerably already, probably orders of magnitude.
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The situation seems to have been stabilized.
Large speculation is no longer changing the BTC/USD course lke crazy.
All those orders on both sides, really tight together, those are speculators, those aren't "common folk" or whoever it is that you want to be the only traders. When a rush of people come in wanting to check bitcoin out, sell what they generated or whatever, the price will move less than it would have otherwise because of all the speculators holding out their offers.
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Even if trust wasn't an issue, it is super lame to not put an address on site. Are they just waiting for the webmaster to add it? edit: People need to ask them to put it on site? Why are they reluctant?
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I'm with BrightAnarchist in putting Bitcoin as the single most important development. You can raise children peacefully and lovingly but they can still become the moral police, religious fundamentalists, hardcore nationalists, etc. Humans are weak by nature and will cling to any gods they can find, no matter how good their childhoods were. Also, profits from this strategy would take generations to be felt. As for seasteading, it only takes for the US to get together with Europe and China and decide that they need to liberate us from liberty for it to be all over.
On the other hand, Bitcoin has the potential to destroy every single government on Earth if implemented on a massive scale, and never give a chance for them to return. There would be no more asking people nicely to give you liberty, you would be able to just take it. I'd go as far as call that scenario the next stage of human civilization.
Children raised without force don't grow up to force others to follow their morals. There is no one human nature. Humans are changeable and adaptable. It will take generations.
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Something I realized that is slightly related is that in the future the time between blocks will become more regular. Currently the reward is the same no matter how long it has been since the last block. When fees make up most of the reward they will increase linearly and as the pot builds more and more generators will come online. Of course some will not bother turning off after a block is found, but those with high electricity costs or with something else to compute will switch on and off.
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I had thought about it a little and decided it wasn't possible also. Followed here from slashdot. Read and was amazed that it had been accomplished.
I know for sure a limited number of transferable tokens makes a good money. And although I can't verify the implementation myself it does look good.
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"Transactions are free, and always will be. In the future, as the network grows in usage, you will have the OPTION of paying a very small amount (like US$0.01, for example), to give your transaction higher priority in processing. In the future, that will result in even faster processing of your transaction. At this time, with the current size of the network, this optional amount will have no speed benefit at all, because transactions are already processing as fast as possible."
I like that. Good work all around, btw. I don't even know HOW to add a fee. How do you do that??
If you try to send a transaction that has more than like 500 inputs it will give you a warning and then attach the fee for you. I think you have the option to add a fee using the headless client. In the future the client will be modified to let you choose the fee easily. Hopefully some data about average confirm times with various fees will be available too (in the client or not).
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You'll have to compete with biddingpond, the first bitcoin auction site. Think you can do it?
Didn't know about biddingpond, thanks for the info. I'm not very committed to anything as of now, don't even have a server yet. This site would be different than bidding pond, i will be the only seller. Registered users would only be allowed to bid on items. This is not ebay for bitcoin. Just a way for me to turn cash into BTC.. You say it isn't ebay meaning that you will be the only seller?
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