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5981  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 08:21:42 PM
these are actually 2 very important graphs.  

back in 2007, i recognized that the ability of the banking elite to encumber the average US citizen with the biggest purchase in their lifetimes was coming to an end.  ever since that time, the Fed has more than quintupled the monetary base to support all sorts of bad debt instruments doled out to just about everyone except these same average US citizens.  it's clear from these graphs the jig is up. the avg person has caught on and are not participating in the necessary Ponzi scheme which is required to keep these Ponzi assets pumped up.  since the banksters can't rely on encumbering the avg citizen anymore, they've turned to gov't/Fed bailouts and free money to keep the game going.  when we start getting sovereign defaults, a fresh crisis will arise.  Argentina may represent that first salvo.  get yourselves into a digital bearer instrument asap.  and i don't mean USD's.

According to the MBA, the unadjusted purchase index is down about 10% from a year ago and have reached levels back to about 1997:


The refinance index is down 75% from the levels in May 2013 and down to about 2009 levels:
5982  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 07:28:43 PM
looks to me that Schiff and Rickards have entered their own echo chamber out of necessity; they're the only ones left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImqxhaPyLEo

they talk about Bitcoin @ 22:00

it's amazing that Rickards can't see the hypocrisy in his own arguments against Bitcoin.  he's critical that Bitcoin isn't yet a unit of account.  but what about gold?  how does everyone refer to their gold values?  oh yeah, same way, in USD's!  also, he's critical of the capital gains ruling against Bitcoin.  well, what about gold again?  oh, it's tax tx is even worse as a collectible or as personal income depending on your income bracket.  he also criticizes that Bitcoiners may tax dodge, while ignoring that a fundamental property of Bitcoin is that it makes it easier to do so if one wishes compared to gold.  that's not a fault of Bitcoin, it's a fault of the owner.

Schiff still thinks it's a tulip mania destined to crash.  not sure how this squares with what Tucker claims he said.  but why should 1200 or so be a ceiling for Bitcoin when gold went to 1923 at it's peak?  what's a share of Berkshire Hathaway stock priced at?

amazingly shallow analysis.
5983  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 07:14:23 PM
looks to me that Schiff and Rickards have entered their own echo chamber out of necessity; they're the only ones left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImqxhaPyLEo

they talk about Bitcoin @ 22:00
5984  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 07:06:49 PM
most of the trolls around here don't realize that they'd have to take the price down to single digits to inflict any losses on to many of us.  if it just stayed where it is today, many of us could retire tomorrow.
I think the trolls realize that Bitcoin is a war of secession and are working for the other team.

http://www.informationweek.com/security/client/air-force-seeks-fake-online-social-media/229219056

This isn't some game - we're taking direct aim at their paychecks, perks, and pensions and they aren't going to just give those up without a fight.

they've been here since at least 2011 when it went to 32.  their desperation even then was palpable.
5985  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
5986  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 07:01:29 PM
looks to me that Schiff and Rickards have entered their own echo chamber out of necessity; they're the only ones left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImqxhaPyLEo
5987  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 06:59:17 PM
my biggest fault is underestimating just how stupid ppl can be.  as long as the protocol is intact, Bitcoin is good.  every day that goes by w/o a hack or major bug strengthens the cause and message.
As far as I'm concerned, Bitcoin is fine at this price since I don't rely on trading or speculation for income.

Thanks to Bitcoin, my income is location-independent. My savings are also location-independent and not remotely confiscatable.

Low exchange rates means my income has increased if I use Bitcoin as my unit of account (which I do).

yeah, most of the trolls around here don't realize that they'd have to take the price down to single digits to inflict any losses on to many of us.  if it just stayed where it is today, many of us could retire tomorrow.
5988  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 06:39:29 PM
my biggest fault is underestimating just how stupid ppl can be.  as long as the protocol is intact, Bitcoin is good.  every day that goes by w/o a hack or major bug strengthens the cause and message.
5989  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 06:26:42 PM
just a little reminder.  10y charts:

GDXJ


GDX


Gold


Silver


devastation
5990  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 06:15:16 PM
bitcoin down, gold up?

ya i think gold has gone from about 1200 to 1300 this yr... bitcoin from about 1200 to 500



Yep. I think there are lots of people who put much credence on the bit licenses. Personally. I think they're mouth breathers, but I've been wrong before.

+1 to traderCJ  for now.

well, similar to previous times, we needed some *news/reason (TM) to get some panic selling. As i had predicted/hoped (TM) in a speculative post a month ago, we touched the 365 day MA again... (thanks gaiz!) so i'm all out of fiat as i loaded up yesterday.

(we may continue the growth now imo, Smiley)

yeah, it's not uncommon to get a throw under support to flush out the last remaining weak hands.  554 was such a tempting target for bears...
5991  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 05:37:32 PM
It's a good thing I've saved lots of ammunition.

The entire world is filled with ammunition.
5992  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 13, 2014, 03:29:21 PM
bitcoin down, gold up?

ya i think gold has gone from about 1200 to 1300 this yr... bitcoin from about 1200 to 500



Yep. I think there are lots of people who put much credence on the bit licenses. Personally. I think they're mouth breathers, but I've been wrong before.

+1 to traderCJ  for now.
5993  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 11:27:14 PM
a visit to God's country:

5994  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 10:23:24 PM
looks like Buttercoin bites the dust.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2dda3y/buttercoin_project_owners_remove_entire/
5995  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 09:26:20 PM
death spiral, baby. death spiral.

there will only be one:



There is no doubt Bitcoin will be #1. But to say there will be only 1 is somewhat in denial. The free-market can create other options.

Usually free markets there are choices and not just one as there will be arbitrage opportunities. If people want to sell BTC they dont have to sell for fiat and instead another crypto to keep it outside of the broken financial system.

Litecoin is down but I suspect it will be back...time will tell. This is from a person who was buying LTC at half a penny so this cycle is nothing new to me.

Bitcoin up, Litecoin down, Gold....who cares lol  Roll Eyes

maybe, but:

i think the most important financial dynamic going on in the world today is Bitcoin vs Gold.  yes, there’s a component of Bitcoin vs Fiat but gold has always been the real money of centuries past.  the pure fiat game has only been around since 1971.  that is why i was a goldbug from 2005 to 2011 and why i started the gold threads:  Gold: I Smell a Trap and this one.  while the Keynesian’s and major CB’s would never admit that gold still plays any importance on the world stage, actions speak louder than words.  otherwise, why would India, China, and Russia continue to stock gold?  why would the Fed continue to spend millions on fortified storage facilities to stockpile what little they have left? we know that at some level, they covet it. unfortunately for CB’s, they’ve never been very good at calling markets ala Gordon Brown in 2000 selling off the UK’s gold followed by the others for much of the noughts.   enter gold’s Black Swan, Bitcoin.

i’m also surprised at how short memories are.  we’ve already kicked out 4.5/5 legs of the precious metal story:

1.  Silver:  remember how all the silver bugs like Eric Sprott and Max Keiser promised us that silver would lead the gold to massive new highs?  while gold was supposed to go to $35000, silver would head to $200 or something like that?  simply enough, Bitcoin did a Slingshot Effect-cypherdoc past silver easily in the Spring of 2013.  effortlessly, like a knife thru butter.  and yet goldbugs fail to understand/remember its significance.  what bigger a red flag to wave that Bitcoin is superior to metals?  Bitcoin has already been Silver’s Black Swan. no one in their right mind thinks silver will ever catch Bitcoin at this point.  this is an important clue to the big picture.  this is also why i don’t like Litecoin; we don’t need or want a Bitcoin’s silver.  Litecoin is doing a death spiral right now. imo, the only reason silver became a form of money in the first place was b/c of the high amount of friction in pm’s.  gold has a limited form of divisibility despite what you’ve been told.
2.  Miners:  oh Lordy.  this sector has been wiped out on it’s own merit, however, when compared to the performance of Bitcoin, it’s been a complete disaster.  i also think Bitcoin played a big part in that; look at the for sale of the recent gold mine for Bitcoin.  remember how miscreanity used to argue vociferously that miners were the ultimate leverage play on gold/silver itself?  how’s that turned out?  disastrously.  pay close attention to that excellent analysis as to the environmental and USD costs of pm mining.  that is unsustainable and undesirable.  http://www.coindesk.com/microscope-true-costs-gold-production/
3.  Gold itself:  did you all forget that Satoshi dared to touch the face of gold in price last November?  what did that tell us?  answer: a hell of a lot. i dare say that the next time Satoshi touches gold it will be with his fist thru the face of gold’s price.  we should get another Slingshot Effect-cypherdoc as the world realizes what the implications of Bitcoin will be.  that event should re-establish the logarithmic Bitcoin ramp we’ve seen in years past.  the seed of doubt in the minds of goldbugs has been planted and it will continue to blossom.
4.5.  we’re seeing one after another of former staunch gold bugs convert:  Turk, Schiff, Rogers, and possibly Casey and Rickards.  the momentum is clear.  they will be running to Bitcoin soon.

i think that Bitcoin blowing thru silver, like it did, is saying that at least when it comes to metals, we don't need 2.

yes, i am extrapolating that to the cryptocurrency market, perhaps unfairly, but LTC isn't getting any merchant traction and the long slow price slide has got to be concerning.

The metric of comparison of Bitcoin and Litecoin in my view should be in terms of life span and milestones on the timeline since inception. To compare Bitcoin to Litecoin, as an example, is like comparing someone like Bill Gates who has had lots of time and experience to make his Billions as opposed to a newly made 18 yr old millionaire. You really can't compare them like that to call it a fair comparison in my opinion.

Think about it...

Where was Bitcoin when it was at 2.75 years old?

I think you will find some very particular similarities between the two.

The arbitrage part I talked about where instead of keeping USD on an exchange you can trade for another crypto and withdraw that immediately. As someone who has used exchanges...keeping USD or any other fiat on an exchange is disconcerting and would prefer another means to withdraw that would not be tied into the broken financial system.

the Austrian theory of money calls for one commodity to rise to the level of money in any society.  that commodity being the one that is most useful in terms of durability, divisibility, portability, fungibility, and scarcity.  gold filled this role for thousands of years.  imo, silver was only used b/c gold really doesn't fulfill all the above properties very well b/c of it's physicality; too heavy, not really transportable in bulk, counterfeit-able, really not divisible in a practical sense, not really scarce with 1.5-2% additive supply and perhaps more with new sources (deep ocean, asteroids, chemical synthesis).  metals are just a high friction way of transacting.  an ugly hack.

why should anything be any different in cryptocurrencies?  sure, i suppose a Litecoin could survive but there really is no need for it.  ppl like simplicity and security.  having multiple alts confuses the issue.  i think the network of money will be a zero sum game over the long term.  i understand the use cases you cite above for traders but will those be enough to sustain a Litecoin network over time?  personally, i have my doubts.

5996  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 09:00:42 PM
death spiral, baby. death spiral.

there will only be one:



There is no doubt Bitcoin will be #1. But to say there will be only 1 is somewhat in denial. The free-market can create other options.

Usually free markets there are choices and not just one as there will be arbitrage opportunities. If people want to sell BTC they dont have to sell for fiat and instead another crypto to keep it outside of the broken financial system.

Litecoin is down but I suspect it will be back...time will tell. This is from a person who was buying LTC at half a penny so this cycle is nothing new to me.

Bitcoin up, Litecoin down, Gold....who cares lol  Roll Eyes

maybe, but:

i think the most important financial dynamic going on in the world today is Bitcoin vs Gold.  yes, there’s a component of Bitcoin vs Fiat but gold has always been the real money of centuries past.  the pure fiat game has only been around since 1971.  that is why i was a goldbug from 2005 to 2011 and why i started the gold threads:  Gold: I Smell a Trap and this one.  while the Keynesian’s and major CB’s would never admit that gold still plays any importance on the world stage, actions speak louder than words.  otherwise, why would India, China, and Russia continue to stock gold?  why would the Fed continue to spend millions on fortified storage facilities to stockpile what little they have left? we know that at some level, they covet it. unfortunately for CB’s, they’ve never been very good at calling markets ala Gordon Brown in 2000 selling off the UK’s gold followed by the others for much of the noughts.   enter gold’s Black Swan, Bitcoin.

i’m also surprised at how short memories are.  we’ve already kicked out 4.5/5 legs of the precious metal story:

1.  Silver:  remember how all the silver bugs like Eric Sprott and Max Keiser promised us that silver would lead the gold to massive new highs?  while gold was supposed to go to $35000, silver would head to $200 or something like that?  simply enough, Bitcoin did a Slingshot Effect-cypherdoc past silver easily in the Spring of 2013.  effortlessly, like a knife thru butter.  and yet goldbugs fail to understand/remember its significance.  what bigger a red flag to wave that Bitcoin is superior to metals?  Bitcoin has already been Silver’s Black Swan. no one in their right mind thinks silver will ever catch Bitcoin at this point.  this is an important clue to the big picture.  this is also why i don’t like Litecoin; we don’t need or want a Bitcoin’s silver.  Litecoin is doing a death spiral right now. imo, the only reason silver became a form of money in the first place was b/c of the high amount of friction in pm’s.  gold has a limited form of divisibility despite what you’ve been told.
2.  Miners:  oh Lordy.  this sector has been wiped out on it’s own merit, however, when compared to the performance of Bitcoin, it’s been a complete disaster.  i also think Bitcoin played a big part in that; look at the for sale of the recent gold mine for Bitcoin.  remember how miscreanity used to argue vociferously that miners were the ultimate leverage play on gold/silver itself?  how’s that turned out?  disastrously.  pay close attention to that excellent analysis as to the environmental and USD costs of pm mining.  that is unsustainable and undesirable.  http://www.coindesk.com/microscope-true-costs-gold-production/
3.  Gold itself:  did you all forget that Satoshi dared to touch the face of gold in price last November?  what did that tell us?  answer: a hell of a lot. i dare say that the next time Satoshi touches gold it will be with his fist thru the face of gold’s price.  we should get another Slingshot Effect-cypherdoc as the world realizes what the implications of Bitcoin will be.  that event should re-establish the logarithmic Bitcoin ramp we’ve seen in years past.  the seed of doubt in the minds of goldbugs has been planted and it will continue to blossom.
4.5.  we’re seeing one after another of former staunch gold bugs convert:  Turk, Schiff, Rogers, and possibly Casey and Rickards.  the momentum is clear.  they will be running to Bitcoin soon.

i think that Bitcoin blowing thru silver, like it did, is saying that at least when it comes to metals, we don't need 2.

yes, i am extrapolating that to the cryptocurrency market, perhaps unfairly, but LTC isn't getting any merchant traction and the long slow price slide has got to be concerning.
5997  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 08:50:19 PM
5998  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 08:43:13 PM
death spiral, baby. death spiral.

there will only be one:

5999  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 08:30:22 PM
Can someone explain to me some stuff from the following video:





About that GOFO (Gold Forward Offer Rate): What are USD loans collateralized by gold? Does it mean someone borrows USD and gives gold as collateral? If so this would mean the gold could be sold at spot price by the lender who would have to buy it again at a future point. Or he would just buy a futures contract. The spread between spot price and future contract would have to be financed by the interest on the loan. Did I understand that correctly?

Quote
The very important features on this graph are the points when the gofo has gone negative. These are extremely important points because it is an indication that gold has gone into hiding.

What does "gold has gone into hiding" mean?

here's a pretty good discussion about this from every gold bugs favorite, FOFOA:

http://fofoa.blogspot.de/2010/07/red-alert-gold-backwardation.html

the GOFO is similar to Fekete's gold "basis".
6000  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 12, 2014, 05:37:59 PM
Break out the lube, boys  Kiss

when traderCJ speaks, _________ .

ans: BUY
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