Bitcoin Forum
June 24, 2024, 03:27:35 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]
61  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC - Active Mining Cooperative on: May 29, 2013, 01:35:57 PM

Shares not issued are owned by AMC which is indirectly implying that the founders are owning more than 60% of the shares. I'm also wondering what you mean by R&D. Aren't the miners developed by VMC which, as you have stated before, is a different company.


Of the 100% of shares.

20% are held by AMC for growth/reinvestment (a horrible way to do things but sadly common - shares should represent ownership not be a crude way to determine the percentage of profits dividended),
40% are potentially for sale to the public - with unsold ones the same as the first 20%
The other 40% would be the founder's own shares.

There's thus three ways to look at it:

If you look at divdends then the founder receives 40% of all dividends regardless of how many shares are sold.
If you look at distributed profits (i.e. the dividends that end up NOT going back to AMC) then before any shares were sold he received 100% (obviously) and when all 40% public ones are sold he receives 50%.
If you look at actual ownership then he owns 100% initially falling to 60% if all public shares are sold.

Right now if any profits were made he'd be entitled to the vast majority of that portion of them that was destined to end anywhere other than in AMC itself - as his personal 40% outweigh the portion actually sold.

How well the shares do depend mainly on how profits are calculated - which is where you have to hope he's generous as that largely depends on how VMC decides to define its cost price that it charges to AMC.  And of course VMC isn't responsible to investors so doesn't have to make any disclosure in respect of that.

Bottomline is that he DOES own more than 60% - dropping to exactly 60% if/when all 40% of public shares are sold.  Reason for that is the ownership the shares owned by AMC.  Those are owned by whoever owns AMC.  Shareholders do NOT own AMC (that's explicit in the contract) so do not any part of those shares.  In practical terms, assuming good faith, the actual effective owned percentage of profits is 50% if all public shares are sold.

There's this sentence in the IPO:
Quote
Only the first 40,000,000 issued shares will receive 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is equal to .0005 BTC per share.
So after all shares are sold there is a time frame where 100% of the profits are paid out to the shareholders and the growth and expansion fund. I agree with the rest of your analysis.

Something completely unrelated: Who is the guy buying batches of 50,000 shares at 0.000799999? I appreciate that someone is supporting the current price level but what's in it for him/her?
62  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder][RTM] Rastamine - 126 Gh/s perpetual mining bond on: May 29, 2013, 10:21:06 AM
  Also, I noticed dividends have been going down.. do you expect dividends to keep going down?

It is expected to go down as difficulty increases. One bond equals a constant rate of 25Mh/s.
63  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: May 29, 2013, 07:44:35 AM
New image of Avalon's shopping cart with the 6 Avalon's and the chip order.

Also, image of the 10,000 chip order.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC profile->images

Thank you!
64  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: May 28, 2013, 09:02:38 PM
If hes a real person living in the US, there should be quite a few ways to verify his existence without sharing so much personal information that he puts himself at risk.  I specifically didn't ask for a particular method of proof because I thought his choice of how to "prove" his existence might actually be as revealing as whatever he posted...and indeed it was...good old Gerald! (you know, the nephew with 13 posts that Kslaughter's done business with for 30 years....)

Anyone still invested in this should be demanding proof that 6 avalons are really on the way...either by confirmation from bitsyncom or something like a blockchain transaction to a known avalon address from an address that kslaughter can sign from.

All the discussion about the IPO shadyness really missed the forest for the trees.

That makes sense. There are two screenshots of the Avalon order viewable under the image tab here. A confirmation the way you described it would obviously be a lot more convincing.
65  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: May 28, 2013, 07:59:05 PM

Yes, as soon as I get my shopping cart to work with bitcoins, I have already done this before, but the shopping cart is a new to me, so it is taking a little time.  Also, so semiconductor stuff in front of doing that.  I hope it will be today.


Hi Kslaughter, can you prove that "Kenneth E. Slaughter" exists?  I am extremely skeptical.
  I will verify his existence. He is my Uncle and my employer.

Gerald Slaughter Wink

I'm pretty sure that this will not suffice since we can't verify your identity either. I think he's looking for something like an ID, a past business he worked at or at least a utility bill in his name. (mtgox inspired me for that one)
66  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: May 28, 2013, 07:31:38 PM
kslaughter > Could you tell us how many of the 40M shares issued have been sold ?

20 Million are for the growth and expansion fund and will collect dividends to buy more mining equipment from VMC or others.  This shares most likely will not be sold, check our description on bitfunder.com for details.

20 Million are "Early Adopter Shares" and the first 5 Million of those shares are being sold now.

3,036,23 remaining of the 5 Million shares of the first batch as of the writing.

I finally get it (I think)

Quick thread recap:

60,000,000 shares are owned by AMC and can be used for anything including salaries. They may not be sold and will not receive dividend payments until the other shares have received dividend payments of at least 0.0005 BTC/share.
20,000,000 shares will most likely be left untouched, so new equipment can be bought with the BTC received from the dividend payments.
18,000,000 shares may be sold as low as 0.0005 BTC/share and are released over time on Bitfunder. (IPO)
2,000,000 shares have been sold to investors on Bitfunder. (IPO)

The batches of 500,000 shares you can see on Bitfunder right now are for the most part owned by AMC and part of the remaining 18,000,000 IPO shares.

Mining Operations have not started yet. 6 Units from Avalon should arrive soon™ (two weeks) and the first real dividend will be payed after they are set up.

VMC will try to develop their own mining hardware and sell them at a reduced price to AMC later this year.

Edit: I forgot to add, there has been some controversy on how shares where released on Bitfunder and then pulled again to pump the price.
67  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is Ripple a Scam? on: May 23, 2013, 11:41:04 PM
As long as it's source code is closed to the public I don't want anything to do with it.  There's apparently an alternative called 'Open Transaction' in the works.
68  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: What do you suggest me to mine? on: May 22, 2013, 12:23:24 PM
I definitely wouldn't mine Bitcoin with GPUs anymore unless you have access to free electricity. I would either mine LTC because it's well established or research a coin that you think has all the attributes to one day 'make it'.
69  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: On Dec 31, 2013, the price of 1 BTC will be: on: May 22, 2013, 12:14:52 PM
Went with sub 300. I think there will be a slow but steady growth with loads of fluctuations in between. I must say I enjoy the roller coaster ride quite a lot, although I didn't buy anything real with BTC yet.
70  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Alt-Coins on: May 22, 2013, 12:01:21 PM
Hi everyone! Can abybody tell me how to see the current difficulty of alt-coin through the client or any other way?

Someone linked this site, it has an overview of all alt coins including difficulty: coinchoose com
71  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie Forum Graduation? Post #5 here. on: May 22, 2013, 11:55:34 AM
And the newbie train continues. I predict in a few years this thread will be the biggest of them all.
72  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: What is the best alt-coin now? on: May 22, 2013, 11:52:20 AM
I'm planning to stay with bitcoin at least for a few years. If some alt coin really picks up speed, it will be all over the forums anyway.
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!