I haven't read everything that's been said about the distribution but just to put my two cents in: I would like to retain the faucet in some way.
The reason for this is because I am going to use the micropayments to allow users to view my site with all the ads blocked. It would be great it people who have never heard of RAI could go and get some free coins to do this with, rather than having to go through all the hassle of buying them (which nobody will do - limiting the use of this to people who already own some Mrai).
I know that's a selfish reason for me, but I think the same principle will apply for anybody else who does this on their site / app.
I'd like it to be around too, the issue I see is the proposals out there for retaining the faucet would make it almost useless to new users. A 1 or 12 hour timer means we need to wait that long from when the session starts to when the user can first hit the faucet, otherwise someone can drain it simply clearing browser cache and attempting again. The recommendation to just let it empty for the day also means the legion of people who will be pounding it when its filled up will get everything and an average user who arrives and wants to try will always find it empty. Even if we could divide the faucet amount down there's still the situation that people who pay others to click for them will get >95% of everything that comes out of it which is why I'm very confused why this is such a popular wish. |
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I think 475k Mrai per lot is to much  This was the distribution schedule. 2^128 initial, 50% first year, 365 days per year, 10^30 per Mrai. 2^128 / 2 / 365 / 10^30 = 466,140 per day. No, you don't understand. It's to much to sell 475k (0,13% of total coin) to only one person. It could be divided up in to smaller units though very few people seem to think anything about it is valid. |
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I know I can't convince people of this though the point of the auction isn't for me to get paid, it's to distribute them in a manor that requires the least effort and has low skepticism. Even with the faucet people were pointing out that it could be unfair because there's no way to prove we're not funneling out of the faucet through shell accounts.
I would be perfectly happy buying them on the open market but that's not the situation we're in, to my dismay.
There is also proof of burn distribution like Counterparty did. Fair and not really complicated. Most trustworthy. But brings no money to the devs. If you want a long distribution (a year or more), you MUST set the price as sharply rising with time. Of course if you need money you have to go with some sort of crowdsale. But it goes against the spirit of this coin. But your idea of permanent auction is very bad. You promise to distribute new coins whatever the price is - even if the price is falling. This is destructive, really destructive. I don't believe this promise can be kept. You will be forced to make changes all the time. As a result people will not believe you, they will lose trust in the coin And the idea to distribute to 7 highest offers is really awful In your view what does proof or burn offer in the way of fairness this way doesn't? Most of people's concerns are with not being able to pay for them i.e. they wouldn't be able to prove burn. The timelines can be adjusted but as far as I can tell that barely register's on people's issue list. |
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I think 475k Mrai per lot is to much This was the distribution schedule. 2^128 initial, 50% first year, 365 days per year, 10^30 per Mrai. 2^128 / 2 / 365 / 10^30 = 466,140 per day. |
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The proposals I've heard are:
Drop based on BOINC mining: I view this is similar to plain old PoW, people with the most invested in mining hardware get everything. Better than traditional wasted PoW since it's more useful but it's not particularly more fair. This is also hard to set up and it's unknown if it can be gamed long term
Longer faucet times: In principle this solves the load problem but it's also easy to game. As someone else in this thread pointed out there's no way to prove an identity on the Internet. What we can prove is IP, browser cookies, time spent on capcha. If we made the time longer, what someone can do is get a multitude of IPs, each having their own cookie expiration timer running and very little effort solving N capchas. This person would get rai out of the faucet at whatever N they could swing.
Continue with faucet distribution and cut off when amount reached: This is still effectively a sale. Capcha clickers get paid and people wanting large quantities of rai do the paying. The only difference between this method and the auction is capcha clickers get paid rather than me. I don't begrudge them wanting payment though it isn't obvious to me how this is very different. At any rate I don't feel like running and developing a network when my time is monopolized by people who expect and downright demand the faucet be continuously operating for them.
thanks for your opinions , are you willing to change to some other method instead of the auction if some form of semi mutual consensus is reached here in the forum? Is there any possible multi pronged method , that can cater to multiple people option ? i ask because something too complex would obviously take time away from you and your work on the coin , but might also lead to more complaints but i think it might be more beneficial , like a random example, some people have plenty of time, some have non , some have hardware some have simple internet so 1/3 faucet 1/3 bionic 1/3 something else If any agreement is made today and implemented then you have a huge amount of people who have joined the discussion and agreed to something, so anyone in the future complaining the faucet is not working and there has been an agreement of , "it gets topped up once a day and that's it" you will now have a small army of people that can tell people straight away the situation and help with those sorts of things, because i dont think many people were aware of it before I'm definitely interested if anything could be agreed upon, I think someone pointed out earlier that he's seen countless threads discussing different methods with no conclusion and everyone unhappy. There are people who are interested in the tech and see the possibilities, I think many from the weekend influx and outflux from the faucet being turned off were never really that interested. Maybe some though, we'll see. |
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The proposals I've heard are:
Drop based on BOINC mining: I view this is similar to plain old PoW, people with the most invested in mining hardware get everything. Better than traditional wasted PoW since it's more useful but it's not particularly more fair. This is also hard to set up and it's unknown if it can be gamed long term
Longer faucet times: In principle this solves the load problem but it's also easy to game. As someone else in this thread pointed out there's no way to prove an identity on the Internet. What we can prove is IP, browser cookies, time spent on capcha. If we made the time longer, what someone can do is get a multitude of IPs, each having their own cookie expiration timer running and very little effort solving N capchas. This person would get rai out of the faucet at whatever N they could swing.
Continue with faucet distribution and cut off when amount reached: This is still effectively a sale. Capcha clickers get paid and people wanting large quantities of rai do the paying. The only difference between this method and the auction is capcha clickers get paid rather than me. I don't begrudge them wanting payment though it isn't obvious to me how this is very different. At any rate I don't feel like running and developing a network when my time is monopolized by people who expect and downright demand the faucet be continuously operating for them.
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It's pitty what this will turn into. I just don't understand why DEV would destroy coin like this with that dumb auction.
People actually investing their time and effort claiming coins is what gave it value in a way and spread awareness.
There's nothing that makes this special anymore after being auctioned for quick dev profit... so lame.
To be accurate, developing something for 2 year is a very slow loss rather than a quick profit. Time value of money says it's better to do nothing than spend time of something that gets you nothing. this what ure doing now is motivated only by desire to quick profit. imho you're making a mistake. why not just place ads on site and earn revenue from it, there was some insane traffic lately and i think it would continue for a long time. much better option than to just kill the project with one move. I know I can't convince people of this though the point of the auction isn't for me to get paid, it's to distribute them in a manor that requires the least effort and has low skepticism. Even with the faucet people were pointing out that it could be unfair because there's no way to prove we're not funneling out of the faucet through shell accounts. I would be perfectly happy buying them on the open market but that's not the situation we're in, to my dismay. |
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It's pitty what this will turn into. I just don't understand why DEV would destroy coin like this with that dumb auction.
People actually investing their time and effort claiming coins is what gave it value in a way and spread awareness.
There's nothing that makes this special anymore after being auctioned for quick dev profit... so lame.
To be accurate, developing something for 2 year is a very slow loss rather than a quick profit. Time value of money says it's better to do nothing than spend time of something that gets you nothing. |
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I'm in crypto because Bitcoin didn't do what I thought it should. It seemed like a system with an ongoing operating expense, mining, that was being paid by everyone holding though inflation, mining rewards.
I watched the space for a lot of years and it didn't seem like what should be done was being done.
The mining expense could be an acceptable trade off if it were necessary though I don't think it is.
RaiBlocks is my expression of how I think the system can operate without a massive, slow opex attached to the system.
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To clarify an auction covers 1 week and I'll send out the first 7 days tomorrow.
? what do you mean by 7 days? To distribute 50% in year one we need to push out 475k per day. 7 lots of 475k is 1 week and we'll do another 7 next week. what if RAI hit exchanges during distribution? We'll continue the auction, no matter how low people bid. |
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To clarify an auction covers 1 week and I'll send out the first 7 days tomorrow.
? what do you mean by 7 days? To distribute 50% in year one we need to push out 475k per day. 7 lots of 475k is 1 week and we'll do another 7 next week. |
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To clarify an auction covers 1 week and I'll send out the first 7 days tomorrow.
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Many people have pointed out to me that the faucet is a very complicated way to for people to purchase Mrai. Payment goes to people who are willing to wait for and click the captcha and in return they get the faucet payout for the amount they want.
People have recommended that rather than having a complex system we should simplify the way this is distributed and I think their advice is good.
The simplest way to get these out to people is to auction them in lots which for year 1 on the distribution schedule is 475k per day. I'll conduct and auction thread on the RaiBlocks forum which will stay open for 24 hours after which I'll accept the 7 highest bids, no matter how low, and will send them each 1 lot.
In the next couple days we'll be releasing an OpenCL GPU module which will address several people's needs who need to generate higher volumes of transactions. We're also working on making an ad-clearing server library for web pages for people to try on their sites.
The auction is conducted in this thread:
<deleted>
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Many people have pointed out to me that the faucet is a very complicated way to for people to purchase Mrai. Payment goes to people who are willing to wait for and click the captcha and in return they get the faucet payout for the amount they want.
People have recommended that rather than having a complex system we should simplify the way this is distributed and I think their advice is good.
The simplest way to get these out to people is to auction them in lots which for year 1 on the distribution schedule is 475k per day. I'll conduct and auction thread on the RaiBlocks forum which will stay open for 24 hours after which I'll accept the 7 highest bids, no matter how low, and will send them each 1 lot.
I made a post about this in the main ANN thread as well but I know this is relevant to the people here the most so I wanted to make sure it was specifically called out.
The auction is conducted in this thread:
<deleted>
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I found out why the distribution amount has moved a tiny amount. Our live demos are actually live demos so when people were running them it would change the amount distributed.
We turned the demos down to 1 Mrai so even if people are using the demos, it will use as little as possible.
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I dont understand why DEV not answering about Faucet...  People have been asking for help setting up nodes and adding some features that helps them with integrating to their websites. Since they're making use of the system I'm going to focus on those needs and figure out a way to distribute in a fashion where email and messages, and board posts aren't filled with faucet questions. Let me know if you have an issue with the network operation or if you have a specific need that would help you integrating with your own business. |
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Tried again...both win32 and 64 do not work....The same error.Even I uninstalled my antivirus and tried...still the same problem. Are you using Windows XP 32 bit. One person he a similar problem, I don't know if XP works. |
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A lower rate is definitely what we want for the reasons you listed. One thing this opens up is more elaborate circumvention of the limiters we currently have because it removes the capcha entry time from the equation.
We could add authentication to a social media account and do verification on account age. I did some research on this a while ago and none of them seem forthcoming with an "account created" time but there are some heuristics that can be applied.
It also seems like some people aren't keeping what they get from the faucet, they turn around and sell it so it goes to whoever can find the most contacts who will trade kind of defeating the usefulness to anyone not doing this.
If social media includes this site , and not the likes of facebook or twitter then that could be beneficial , you got a lot of paranoid , screw the system types here that tend to stay away from social media sites like the plague . There will always be people that instantly sell once received, i wouldn't be surprised if the % of people doing captchas then trying to sell for the best price right away was similar to that of miners of other crypto currencies. There has been an interesting discussion on the trading thread about perhaps creating an ad blocker add-on for chrome, easy to download , easy to use, could be used for website owners and surfers alike . something to give people a real world benefit from getting the coin, might help reduce the mount of people selling everything as soon as they get any . The good thing is, more people than ever are claiming coins, so the spread of the coin is better now and reaching more people, accumulation has happened with every single crypto currency and without harsh restrictions i don't know if it would be able to be managed properly to any degree been down the road investigating fair distribution a few times, still with no answer. social media; bad idea, a)as mentioned, for the the crypto types who are anti social media, should people be forced to have an account? b) very gameable, you can buy packs of 1000s of verified social media accounts if you know where too look. faucets;a) can be gamed b) everyone's on about waste of resources with pow, but shouldn't human time resource be considered even more valuable. its the internet and any approach can be gamed, and/or can be deemed unfair by various peoples definition (always will get whingers). this coin being under the radar probably so far has saved it from being properly gamed. on the fair distro point, does it even matter? ie once its traded it becomes as unfair as anything its traded with ie someone rich in fiat can instantly become rich in crypto making crypto no fairer then fiat. so is there even an answer to 'fair' distibution? if there is i'd like to know. Yea those are some really good points. I'll have to think about it some more. |
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A lower rate is definitely what we want for the reasons you listed. One thing this opens up is more elaborate circumvention of the limiters we currently have because it removes the capcha entry time from the equation.
We could add authentication to a social media account and do verification on account age. I did some research on this a while ago and none of them seem forthcoming with an "account created" time but there are some heuristics that can be applied.
It also seems like some people aren't keeping what they get from the faucet, they turn around and sell it so it goes to whoever can find the most contacts who will trade kind of defeating the usefulness to anyone not doing this.
If social media includes this site , and not the likes of facebook or twitter then that could be beneficial , you got a lot of paranoid , screw the system types here that tend to stay away from social media sites like the plague . There will always be people that instantly sell once received, i wouldn't be surprised if the % of people doing captchas then trying to sell for the best price right away was similar to that of miners of other crypto currencies. There has been an interesting discussion on the trading thread about perhaps creating an ad blocker add-on for chrome, easy to download , easy to use, could be used for website owners and surfers alike . something to give people a real world benefit from getting the coin, might help reduce the mount of people selling everything as soon as they get any . The good thing is, more people than ever are claiming coins, so the spread of the coin is better now and reaching more people, accumulation has happened with every single crypto currency and without harsh restrictions i don't know if it would be able to be managed properly to any degree A plugin like that is a great idea. I approached shapeshift because their lense plugin does something similar but they weren't interested at the time, maybe in the future. A plugin would have to trigger a wallet action so that whole layer needs to be secure but that type of idea is exactly what we can do. |
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