I did not say he brings nothing but valid points, so not sure what are you trying to do here, there valid points, and I summarized some of them in my previous post, do you have any actual argument against them?
Can you you put HmmMAA on ignore so none of his posts show to you and then explain why you called us big blockers and how can you counter our arguments?
Everyone that is outside of the cult and uses his brain , according to cryptosize don't want the good of bitcoin ( as he imagines bitcoin ) . He bite the maxis narrative that btc will worth millions and that's what he's only interested about . We had many arguments in the past ( until i put him on ignore with his "friend" blackhatcoiner which when he disagreed at some point cryptosize decided to almost doxx him ) and there were no valid points from his side other than insults . We had extensive talks in the greek subforum about fee market and why the model is not sustainable , the future of bitcoin , how btc has became centralised through a group of devs deciding what's good or bad etc . It was tiring to interact with him and he is one of the persons that brandolini's law appies the most . I love bitcoin , i got into bitcoin because i thought it could change the world as we know it . And i still believe it , it's just that btc doesn't provide that anymore . If btc wasn't taken over by the maxis cult and offered a solution to everyone in the world to use it i would still be in the btc camp . But unfortunately btc has become a tool only to profit , no real advancement for years . Nothing is build anymore , devs are too focused in L2 . Ordinals and brc-20's is the only thing for years that moves btc forward . And it's a perfect example of how wrong maxis were , a project that can not be taken down by countries faces huge problems due to a couple of guys that decided to use it as it was intended to be used and that's not just as money . Transactions can be about anything , from money to data or anything else we can - or not yet - imagine . |
|
|
|
miners are not happy
they do not earn 6.25+0.5
miners are not the pool manager, miners are the "workers" where by if there are 100,000 workers(asic owners)
earn 0.00006750 which they wont withdraw instantly, freely because the fee eats into their earnings
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools
dont be so sure
RIOT a group that done alot if inhouse-mining on its pool. is in deep financial trouble
Never heard of riot owns a pool . Any link ? According to my knowledge , big mining farms were in trouble during the low fee and low price period . Probably now they're on the positives . Of course , if btc doesn't double in price or double in fees , in the next halving problems for miners group will start to emerge . |
|
|
|
Full anonymity on the internet is a no go . If three letter agencies decide to track you down , you are doomed . Sure, it's not easy, but care to explain how Satoshi's identity still remains a secret 15+ years after BTC's announcement/whitepaper? You fail to understand that you are not the all seeing eye . That you or i don't know who satoshi is , doesn't mean that satoshi's identity isn't known to everyone . Who are the ones that know it ? If i had to guess , people close to him that are good in keeping secrets . Oh , and of course three letter agencies , if an order to find him was given at some point . |
|
|
|
the way the fee system works.. everyone is penalised equally when some idiot wants to take up too much space
ordinals affects everyone..
this can be fixed where only the bloaters or young confirm spammers can be penalised to pay the most. thus making THEM transact less so that everyone else can transact more
Not everyone is penalised . There were always two groups in bitcoin , miners and users . In the way btc chose there will always be one group pleased and as the time goes those group will be either extremely happy or extremely pissed . Currently miners are the ones cheering with the unexpected increase in earnings and users are crying . In upcoming halvings if the users will be happy that will mean miners will be crying . The fee market is a lost case but maxis still insist on it . In fact , what they want is to make people move on their L2's ( which even their devs saying that can't work in a massive scale ) and make them use their "wrapped" btc . Or even more , if i want to get into conspiracy theories , that bitcoin is a failed experiment . As i said in the past , pools are the most happy than all . They get insane profits , especially those that don't share fees , and they don't have to spend a single penny . A rapspi will do the job . That's what equality and left ideology does . Bitcoin was never about equality . |
|
|
|
So satoshi referenced 2 out of 8 whitepapers related to digital timestamping , one specifically for documents , photos , videos , coded a part of script to be used exactly for that use , used it in the genesis block , and i should stand with your view of how things might have been . Nope . Ever heard of Occam's razor ? |
|
|
|
IMHO, it was a mistake on Satoshi's part designing Bitcoin is such a way to also include arbitrary data (i.e. the bank bailout message), not just financial transactions.
If I had it my way, BTC's blockchain would store ONLY financial transactions (this is possible with Mimblewimble which makes the blockchain very lightweight, i.e. BEAM, GRIN) and there would be a separate, optional blockchain (sidechain if you will) to store text messages, photos, audio files, videos (even DVD movies) etc.
Unfortunately it's too late to do that, nobody will accept a hard fork.
Damn , that satoshi dude is such a braindead ignorant , he should have ask advise from cryptosize how network should be coded . If we consider that cryptosize knew about bitcoin since 2003 it was a great opportunity to have a network as the mastermind wants it to be . What a clown  . |
|
|
|
When you write a paper you always refer to other work that was done and share similarity with your new work. When Satoshi was explaining what a "timestamp server" is he referred to 4 other works done in that topic (references 2 to 5) in the past. That doesn't mean Bitcoin is meant to be used as cloud storage just because these references exist in the paper!!!
Strange , i thought that script gives that opportunity to use bitcoin as a cloud timestamped storage ( magnificent thought huh ? ) . Imagine downloading something that's 100% safe from a reliable source ? Or many other usecases that could change the world ? Of course , not every one could afford a node to validate it's own transactions ( i thought that's what mining nodes purpose is ) , so probably satoshi didn't think of it well . Everyone should have the right to his own node , period .  |
|
|
|
I can't imagine how governments will be able to pull this off (controlling the mining pools), especially when miners can decide to move to another pool that doesn't promote censorship. With a new mining protocol underway (Stratum V2), it's expected mining to become less-centralized in the future. I've read somewhere there was a decentralized mining pool called "P2Pool" (not to be confused with Monero's P2Pool.to mining pool). Whenever it will take off in popularity or remain a niche, it's yet to be seen.
I think it's too easy to control pools and miners , especially with the current status . Most hashpower is based in US and China . Forcing big mining farms to commit their hashrate to specific pools will be the easiest part . Comply or go to jail , easy choice . And if you don't agree as a big mining farm , shut down your miners and move to another country by loosing a big portion of your profitability because in the meantime new gen machines might make your investment even more unprofitable . Most people haven't really understand how hard this is for a company that want's to make profit . And the fun part is that people that haven't even mine say that nonsense that miners will move to non regulated pools . They haven't understand how things work , technically and financially . As for the stratum v2 , i have explained here why it won't work https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475844.msg63254857#msg63254857 . As for the p2pool , can you guess why it's not still present ? Think of how decentralised mining would work , and you will see that there's not such think as the reason to mine is profit . Regarding putting devs behind bars, I'd say governments are going to have a hard time doing this especially if the developer is anonymous. Just like Bitcoin's Satoshi Nakamoto. New protocols and/or privacy techniques need to be developed in an anonymous way to avoid government prosecution. If the developer reveals his identity (like Vitalik Buterin and others), he would be nothing more than stupid. I know the excuse is that investors will think a project is a scam without publicly-known developers, but this is the way to go if we want to preserve decentralization/privacy/censorship-resistance. With centralized mixers on the brink of extinction, Bitcoiners will have to use decentralized alternatives for true financial privacy. Hopefully, non-custodial mixers and privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies will survive for generations. As long as we defend our right to privacy, there should be nothing to worry about.  Full anonymity on the internet is a no go . If three letter agencies decide to track you down , you are doomed . |
|
|
|
Nobody "subjectively" consider anything to be spam. It is spam because block space is being used for things that are not related to "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System". This is Satoshi's description of what the system is, and introducing ways to inject more data into the blockchain for a variety of purposes will dimm the main purpose down until its just another shitcoin that only big companies can afford to run nodes.
Well , seems that you only read the title and not the whole whitepaper . Look at references 3 and 4 , satoshi pointed there are things that can be done through script , infact he was the first to inject arbitrary data on chain . |
|
|
|
I didn't say pushed out, I said priced out. I believe there's an obvious difference. It is as the network was designed, to be robust. Plus by keeping the costs of running a full node low, the costs are pushed to the users. I wouldn't say that it isn't annoying for plebs like me though.
My apologies , i'm not a native english speaker and i thought the context was the same . Had to ask chatgpt : Priced Out: This implies that the user is unable to afford or participate due to the high fees, making the transaction network inaccessible. Pushed Out: This suggests a force or external factor (in this case, high fees) that is causing the user to be excluded or compelled to leave the network. I diasgree that the network was designed this way . On the contrary , satoshi said that when demand starts to rise , users should not run nodes and start using spv's . The core's mentality that miners and pools are bad is the one that made people want to give the ability to everyone to run a node with very low specs . A proverb in my country says " you can't paint easter eggs with farts " . And for the possible argument that there's no high demand for transactions , so no need for increase in blocksize of base layer to keep fees down , look at how many tens of thousands of projects exist because btc can't handle all those transactions or users don't use it due to high fees . Why don't they build on the "Bitcoin" with big blocks? That would be "more efficient" and more sustainable, no?
Actually they build , much more than just nft's and in extremely higher volume . Maybe you should check it out , things happening in btc now were started years ago in other sha-256 chains . |
|
|
|
Where's the hue-and-cry from the anti-censorship crowd today on this?  Many of those people think that Core Devs can do whatever they want, they are the good guys, it is us the miners and regular users, it is always us causing all the problems which the devs need to fix. So devs' censorship is viewed as "protection" for bitcoin. Yep , devs can do what they want and censor according to their beliefs . It's funny though that Luke was pushing the arbitrary data he liked in the past https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38007.0 |
|
|
|
With Bitcoin getting smart contract features via the use of sidechains, it's possible to build a decentralized/non-custodial mixer that would live on the Blockchain forever (immutable). I wonder what new tactics will governments come up with to prevent people from obfuscating their BTC transactions in the long run? How about freezing addresses at a pool level ? Forcing big mining farms to point their hashrate to specific pools that obey court or state orders ? Forcing pools to reject blocks that contain transactions from banned addresses ? Putting devs behind bars like the tornado cash dev ? And much more that are not as obvious right now ? |
|
|
|
That gives bad actors the opportunity to build a months/years long sustainable ecosystem to price many users out from using the network. The "protocol" of Ordinals by itself is not the attack, but it could be used as an attack vector. It's going to be an annoying few months until the hype goes down, but it might not be the end of that. It goes, then it comes back.
No one is pushed out of using the network . Anyone has the right to increase the fee to a level that will make his transaction enter into the next block . Isn't that the purpose of the fee market , to make blockchain space as much valuable as possible ? Well , mission accomplished . To be honest , i see current fee market at a low level . As soon as more protocols start to create defi's etc on btc , fees will increase in thousands of dollars for a single tx . The unfortunate ones will be those that will have to exit from LN for whatever reason and those stacking sats . A new era is coming . |
|
|
|
On the plus side, Luke's comments on the matter have been gathering a lot of positive attention. Many people seem to be looking forward for the next Bitcoin Core release to block filter Ordinals entirely after Luke said it's possible: Via https://x.com/LukeDashjr/status/1732204937466032285Look at all these retweets and likes this tweet has. Yep , Luke knows better what's the network's purpose and that's just financial transactions , ability only to send and receive money . I wonder why satoshi in the whitepaper referenced those two whitepapers if bitcoin was solely intented for financial transactions and nothing else . [3] S. Haber, W.S. Stornetta, "How to time-stamp a digital document," In Journal of Cryptology, vol 3, no 2, pages 99-111, 1991. [4] D. Bayer, S. Haber, W.S. Stornetta, "Improving the efficiency and reliability of digital time-stamping," In Sequences II: Methods in Communication, Security and Computer Science, pages 329-334, 1993.  Not to mention his genesis block message , making him the first "spammer" ( according to your definition of spam ) . Really liked the last sentence of yours , twitter likes and retweets that shows how much approved Luke's tweet is . I have to admit , i lol'd hard . Thanks for that laugh . PS . Anyone know if Luke finally ate a cat ? Or a dog ? https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1169615995742380035 . One the most sane people you should follow |
|
|
|
|
If the situation continues miners will have their best christmas ever . Looks like the hype isn't cooling down , ordi is now at more than 50000 times the money cost to inscribe . That gives a lot of ammo to the inscribers to continue .
|
|
|
|
Not that I agree with this logic, but do you think you have privacy against other people with bitcoin? Coin control is very limited and you will likely merge inputs together at some point.
Can you find my entire transactions history ? Or franky's ? I have a lot of merged inputs so it must be an easy task . |
|
|
|
Well , looks like finally ocean established it's position on filtering transactions . "We are happy to announce testing of Bitcoin Knots v25.1 has completed successfully, and is now deployed to production. Among other improvements, this upgrade fixes this long-standing vulnerability exploited by modern spammers. As a result, our blocks will now include many more real transactions and help to bring an end to the DoS attack being performed on the #Bitcoin network." https://twitter.com/ocean_mining/status/1732207450114162855?s=20 |
|
|
|
Huh ? That's what you get from his reply to Donald ? That it doesn't scale onchain ? "Long before the network gets anywhere near as large as that, it would be safe for users to use Simplified Payment Verification ( section 8 ) to check for double spending, which only requires having the chain of block headers, or about 12KB per day. Only people trying to create new coins would need to run network nodes. At first, most users would run network nodes, but as the network grows beyond a certain point, it would be left more and more to specialists with server farms of specialized hardware. A server farm would only need to have one node on the network and the rest of the LAN connects with that one node. The bandwidth might not be as prohibitive as you think. A typical transaction would be about 400 bytes (ECC is nicely compact). Each transaction has to be broadcast twice, so lets say 1KB per transaction. Visa processed 37 billion transactions in FY2008, or an average of 100 million transactions per day. That many transactions would take 100GB of bandwidth, or the size of 12 DVD or 2 HD quality movies, or about $18 worth of bandwidth at current prices. If the network were to get that big, it would take several years, and by then, sending 2 HD movies over the Internet would probably not seem like a big deal. Satoshi Nakamoto" |
|
|
|
I haven't used a mixer ever . Does that mean that everything you ask me to provide is accessible to anyone ? Doesn't bitcoin provide privacy ? Because i think there's a section in the whitepaper that explains specifically that part . If bitcoin provides privacy to everyone, then it contradicts your initial statement that for one to want privacy they need to prove they are innocent. Every user can enjoy certain levels of anonymity with bitcoin without proving they are innocent. You register in bitcointalk.org under a pseudonym. That means you want some privacy. Can you please prove to us you are innocent, otherwise why would you want privacy? And if at any time authorities ask me , i have the proof of source of funds Lmao. Very reasonable. So, if someone cannot prove they own coins (or owned coins in the past), they must be treated as suspects? Oh my , why i waste my time . Dear , try to understand the difference between privacy and anonymity . You are trying to create something based on nothing . I want privacy , you want anonymity . Understand the distinction first and then we can procced . That individual in your example will hold coins from criminal actions . Hello ? Does anybody live in the upper floor ? Or it is uninhabited . |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
