You asked this elsewhere as well.  My answer there was that no legal tender is involved. 

There is no legal tender involved.

Its not usable transactionally either from my PoV: The implementors are not to be trusted. 

Why, in the name of all that is holy, would anyone use bitcoin and expose themselves to extortionists, kidnappers, and thieves (governmental, NGO, and freelancers), when an alternative exists?  XMR is now the single most liquid alternative.  The market, through the mechanism of price, will act to insure that there is enough liquidity to meet demand.

C'mon folks, we need more manic exhuberance, or they won't short it down.  I want to hear some chitchat about world domination and new global elite...  Or don't you want your bids filled?

Gold And Gemstones Pile Up in Singapore Vault on Quest for Haven
Tuesday, August 23, 2016 04:41 AM
By Ranjeetha Pakiam

Precious metals, stones hoarded on negative rates, uncertainty
Investors seeking ‘tangible assets’ to diversify portfolio
(Bloomberg) --
The stash of gold, silver and gems stored in the vaults and safe deposit boxes of Malca-Amit in Singapore has jumped almost 90 percent in the past year as wealthy investors seek a refuge in a world of negative interest rates, stagnating economies and political uncertainty.

The company’s facilities in the city-state are about 70 percent full and more than 90 percent of the hoard comprises precious metals, according to Ariel Kohelet, managing director of Malca-Amit Singapore Pte, a logistics and storage provider, without giving specific figures. Revenue has grown at least 45 percent in 2016 from a year earlier, he said in an interview last week.


Gold has rallied 26 percent this year and silver’s up 37 percent as negative interest rates, the U.K. vote to leave the European Union and the U.S. presidential race spur investors to protect their wealth. Billionaire bond-fund manager Bill Gross has said there’s little choice but gold and real estate given current bond yields, while hedge fund manager Eric Mindich almost tripled his options bet on a bullion-backed exchange-traded fund in the second quarter.

“We’re seeing a trend where high net-worth individuals are looking to diversify their portfolio into tangible assets like precious metals, precious stones,” said 41-year-old Kohelet, who’s been with the company for 12 years. “This is mostly to preserve and protect their wealth. They’re looking into places like Hong Kong and Singapore as places they deem to be safe.”

Money Printing

A raft of investors have underscored the attraction of gold in a world where central banks are trying to revive growth by buying bonds and keeping their economies flush with cash. While billionaire George Soros cut his holding in Barrick Gold Corp. in the second quarter, he bought shares in the SPDR Gold Trust. Paul Singer, David Einhorn and Stan Druckenmiller have all expounded reasons this year for owning gold.

Assets in exchange-traded funds have climbed. The amount in gold-backed ETFs has soared almost 40 percent this year and is near the largest in three years, data compiled by Bloomberg show. Holdings in silver-backed funds have climbed almost 10 percent to a record.

Some are not sure prices will keep rising, seeing more increases in U.S. borrowing costs, which will lift the dollar and tarnish a metal that pays no interest. The probability of three rate hikes through end-2017 means there’s little room for rallies, according to Luc Luyet, a currencies strategist at Pictet Wealth Management. While Goldman Sachs Group Inc. likes gold as a strategic hedge, its base case is $1,300 an ounce, less than the $1,340 traded Tuesday.

Cultural Allure

In Asia, where more than half the world’s bullion is consumed, people have always invested in gold, according to Kohelet. “If you take China and India, it’s part of the culture and tradition to put some aside,” he said.

Malca-Amit has 1,000 square feet of space at the Singapore FreePort, a free trade zone, capable of storing 700 metric tons, while another warehouse at Changi airport’s airfreight center has a capacity of 200 tons, Kohelet said. In May, the company started a safe depository service called UltraVault and opened new facilities located in the central business district, he said.

To contact the reporter on this story:
Ranjeetha Pakiam in Singapore

I am hoping for a drop to 650k.  I will be all-in at that point.

The difference is that when they fight BTC, they can win, but when they fight XMR, they can not win. The difference is as simple as the difference between slavery and freedom.  Many prefer a comforting slavery.

Yeah, trollbox mod policy is fascist. They will not tolerate truth or honesty there, only mealy-mouthed deceits.

Exactimente.  Your volatility is low ( good Sharpe) but if you sacrifice all the tail gains, well...  No financial professional can simultaneously underperform the market and claim to competence. I  like to outperform on both risk-adjusted and un-adjusted bases. It makes up for years of painful self-control that way.

Another way of using this relationship: r = exp[(log{k*b}-log{P})/n].  If you think the market-implied discounting rate "r" is excessive, buy.  I you think it is too rosy-eyed, sell.

Of course this is fundamentals-based rational long-term investment policy, and does not account for speculative excesses, nor does it model volatility directly.  Variance due to parametric uncertainty and volatility should be reflected in your position sizing (Kelly/leverage space).

That is fascinating.  Thank you.

I suggest that topics unrelated to speculation be directed to another thread.

 Regarding stable levels, you can reason about it simply: BTC 2013 established that DNM demand supports a $100 * 10mm currency, b =1e9 USD.  Some multiple of that, k,  between 0.0 and 1.0, shall be supported in XMR at equilibrium, at some time n years in the future.   The crypto speculation marketplace discounts future values at some rate, "r".  The NPV of XMR is then P_now = k*b*(r^-n).   To value XMR today, estimate k,r, as a function of n.  The trading range today should be distributed as the distribution of the parameters implies for P_now.

Since b grows over time, using the 2013 value produces an under-estimate.

Using ID to purchase monero with fiat currency is safe, because unlike bitcoin the monero cannot be traced back to you after they have been spent.

I actually prefer using bitcoin to buy Monero.  Bitcoin can be run through a mixer, and monero purchased via shapeshift.io.  When TOR or I2P is used at each step, the result is the maximum degree of anonymity currently achievable with off-the-shelf open source software.

That said, what I would like to see happen is a Mycelium 1.0 style phone app, facilitating ad hoc XMR transactions.  I tried to fund one, but my developer bailed.

Meanwhile there is also bitsquare.io

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Can we please restrict price and trading related topics to the speculation thread?  People reading that thread actually care about the topic.  Here, you are just interfering with the efforts of those who want to learn about aspects of the technology and community of Monero.

bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.new#new  invites you.

Clearly I have underestimated the force of this move.  It appears as though stability will occur somewhere north of 0.01.  I don't have enough info yet to estimate where.  I gave up on market-making again, since these large impulsive moves are fatal to MMer profitability.  Holding rather too much BTC right now, hoping for a dip.

Edit: currently forming another bull flag.  Expecting an impulsive move past .01 later today.  How far past, is not with my comfortable domain of estimation.

Thus illustrating the value of an intuitive, belt-and-suspenders GUI.

That's nothing you can't fix.  This isn't the last big move by any means.  But now I am speculating😜

Bitsquare.io

Price talk is best relegated to the speculation thread - please, good sirs.