|
I hope you are having a good time Patrick.
|
|
|
|
Zhou Tong: Why were there NO BACKUPS of the database? When I make a website of ANY caliber, I always keep a backup. I'll save a backup on multiple hard drives on my server so the chance of losing all three or four copies is almost zero. Even when writing a long email to someone, I'll write it in notepad and save it to my desktop every couple paragraphs because it's SO frustrating to lose even an hour of work on something. When your website had passed the $1,000,000 volume mark, you don't think it would have been a good idea to back up your database?  THIS This and the last hack (the one about the btc and $ that were on mtgox) is why i think the bitcoinica thing is a epic scam. I understand the first hack, shit happens, but the no backup and the last hack (lol, why the hell did they keep money on an exchange instead of a cold storage??) are SUSPECT. Hell, i have much much much less btc and i have better backups than them! That and the fact that they didn't bother enabling 2factor/yubikey authentication on MtGox nor LastPass (where they kept the master password). They even manually raised the withdrawal limits to the 40K max on the MtGox account. Probably MtGox sent them a couple of yubikeys for free too. (I got one after my account reached 1K). When you are dealing with large amounts of other peoples cash you would think the thought of properly securing it should have crossed their minds. |
|
|
|
Genjix has been around a long time, and his real identity and location are not exactly secret. I have never seen him be anything but nice and professional. I see every indication of trustworthiness, and I think people picking on him are hoping that he will reimburse them for their foolish losses (I never trust ANY website with more than a modicum of bitcoins at a time. Anyone who does so is being extremely foolish.)
So you are saying... He is very trustworthy and professionnal AND at the same time we were foolish trusting him with the security ?? There is no contradiction in what he is saying. Basically his point is: "Don't accept counter party risk. ever. not even your mother." - fair enough. Personally I wanted to put my bitcoins to productive use and earn a small return. That is a risk/reward proposition. Clearly the risk was bigger than the reward in Bitcoinica's case. EDIT: Sorry didn't read his linked post fully until now - A trusted indivdual can quality as counter party risk. But not an online service. |
|
|
|
At least he's doing a favour by returning the money. This will be the first ever Bitcoin-related hack that has the funds returned.
Good to hear Chen finally saw some sense and is returning the full 40K USD + 40K BTC Oh wait.. Chen Jianhai has agreed to return at least $140,000 and 20,000 BTC under the condition that Bitcoinica LP will not start a police investigation about the hack. Zhou, if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. And your reputation can easily be restored once it turns out you have been doing the right thing all along. EDIT: However I find it hard to believe a corporate entity such as Bitcoinica LP can agree to these terms set by Chen. I don't even think it is legal. The only way not to be a thief and be exonerated is to return *all* the stolen money. Plain and simple. You can not steal, return half and set terms that amount to blackmail. Maybe you can tell Chen that. He is a multi-millionaire after all. |
|
|
|
Let's stick with the Bomb analogy: 1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.) 2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.) 3) They announced they owned it. ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77975.0) 4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital ( http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/) 5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?) 6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!) 7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork...) 8) They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse. 9) Welcome to now. |
|
|
|
Okay, no boycott, but no public forum for the Intersango Gang, and their logo comes off the website today. If you want the conference to be about healing and community, you don't welcome sewer rats as prodigal sons. Keep their money, god knows they have taken enough off the community to support lavish vacations for themselves instead of working on solving the problem that they created.
Isn't that a bit harsh? After all, some of the Bitclown Consultancy members spent 3 days eating bad muesli and cheap milk. |
|
|
|
Umm wasn't Tihan fired at one point by the "Wendon Group" ? In the leaked emails he is very much claiming to be so. In light of that I don't really see how you guys can take anything he says at face value.
@Tihan: indeed clarification needed. Are you still acting on behalf of the Wendon Group? I emailed with Tihan on July 29 and he addressed some of these questions, so I hope he does not mind me sharing his clarifications here: The idea that I've been fired is one of many false rumors perpetuated by the Consultancy. This disaster will negatively impact my livelihood. However, I have not had a "boss" since 1999 Wendon Group is an investment fund -- an inanimate pile of dollars. It does not have the ability to 'care' about Bitcoinica customers. I can and do. The return of funds to customers has been my first priority since the theft. Tihan really seems to be acting in the best interest of Bitcoinica customers here. Of course; time will tell, but at least I have some hope again. |
|
|
|
|
@mlawrence - Please stop feeding the Troll Pony
|
|
|
|
Wendon Group intends to donate any funds it obtains via receivership in favor of Bitcoinica customers. Thank you for acting with integrity. Please make sure the reimbursement database managed by the Bitcoin Consultancy guys is secured so the liquidator has records of verified customers and previous payouts. We really don't need another wipe at this point. |
|
|
|
Whoever bitchen is, he appears to be a scammer: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=bitchenuser feedback: I bought MP. Days later account locked. Appears to have scammed others with MP Scammer, attempted to dispute a moneypak and/or used a stolen one Note: sgitcoin != sgbitcoin (so the Zhou Tong - BitChen connection is not clear at all imho). Also Zhou has not been hiding the fact he owns sgitcoin.com: I still have an operating business in Singapore ( http://www.sgitcoin.com/) and this service is actually quite popular (top Google result for "buy bitcoin in singapore"). Therefore I regularly deal with foreign exchange, money transfers and e-currencies. |
|
|
|
Zhou Tong developed and supported an idea, as a child. Adults, with logic and reason dumped way too much money into a child's website. The website is sold to someone else. The child no longer runs or owns it, and it gets hacked. The forum's solution? Blame the child. What a sick bunch of losers they must be.
...said the guy who accepted $11.000 from that child. I only committed a significant amount of money to Bitcoinica after it became a licensed FSP ran by the Bitcoin Consultancy group. (which I mistakenly believed to be the among best in the business at that time). Recent evidence from MtGox, Bitinstant and AurumXchange points directly at Zhou. And Zhou points to some mystery man named Chen. Please excuse me for being skeptical. |
|
|
|
At this point I feel the shilling from rarity, dree12, and Mathew N. Queer comes from getting paid. Either that, or the first two are just sock puppets of this criminal organization spearheaded by Zhou.
That is a possibility. Zhou mentioned he donated a significant sum of money to Matthews projects after the Bitcoinica sale. Perhaps Matthew is worried some of the proceeds from the sale might be clawed back at a future date? It is also possible that Zhou donated some more towards his projects in return for his help doing some damage control. Most likely he is just voicing his own opinion. Matthew used to get loans from Bitcoinica for dialcoin and stuff. Matthew was involved with bitcoinica. How much involvement and how official was it, I do not know. I asked him to tell us but he did not want to, I don't know why.
It's just a few personal loans. They aren't even tied to Bitcoinica. When the site was acquired, the creditor becomes me as an individual. Matthew was very familiar with the Bitcoin community and he offered a lot of help to me at early stage of Bitcoinica development. I really appreciate that. And I also donate a significant sum to his projects after the sale.These are all entirely personal so I didn't talk about it at all. He did advise me to incorporate in Singapore and I followed his advice for a month. The acquisition happened just when I'm about to form Bitcoinica Pte Ltd with two partners who have experience in this field. So I wouldn't think it's any kind of involvement or even CEO. Rarity appears to be a well educated troll. Dree12 just seems your average bitcointalk user (just because you don't agree does not mean others are paid shills) |
|
|
|
Thank you for that link. I filed a complaint on Bitcoinica LP's business practices @ FSPR Compliance < compliance@fspr.govt.nz>. |
|
|
|
I trust you guys, but are acting extremely unprofessional. I will personally never use your service in fear of you publicly going after users in this format. From an outsiders perspective you really look terrible. I'm serious. ZT looks bad, but so do you.
You have stated ZT is the prime suspect? In what? Is there even a fucking police report? He is the prime suspect according to you, AFAIK.
Basically, you are just holding his money because you want to. You have stated he has broken your TOS. I am sure you have violated your own TOS when you have posted personal information about your users all over the web.
This is turning into a big fucking joke.
Get the fucking money to the lawyers so us bitcoinica users can get our money back. That's it.
Say what you will but if Roberto and Mark hadn't done this, we would be no further towards recovering funds. So far Zhou has managed to transfer 15k BTC out of 20k BTC and 140k USD promised. If anything you should be thanking AurumXchange and MTGox for getting to the bottom of this. +1 After having experienced the continued inaction of Bitcoinica - Seeing these services work together and achieve results is a breath of fresh air. Kudos! |
|
|
|
|
@Bitcoinica Consultancy - How will the recent developments (e.g. stolen funds returned to Patrick Murck) affect the customer reimbursement process?
|
|
|
|
I believe so. He handled this matter very professionally and I'm going to continue recovering the fiat money from the hackers.
Why the plural? Is this just a Freudian slip or are there more hackers involved besides Chen? |
|
|
|
So intuitively I feel that the more the community criticizes me, the more I deserve to actually take possession of the funds and run away (because they penalized me like I did steal the funds, and I didn't). Please don't take these words at face value. I'm just discovering what I'm actually thinking and feeling.
My deposits in Bitcoinica represented 2 years of savings. Over 700 days of hard work and consistently living below my means. Money is earned by being a productive member of society, by adding value, not because someone doesn't agree with you on the internet. That said, I'm happy you resisted the temptation to grab the money & run. Doing the right thing is not always the easiest thing but it must be done. |
|
|
|
I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.
Look at this liar! I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).
Look at the date. It is possible Zhou used these BTC already as part of his earlier 5000 BTC donation. However if the funds are coming from Chen Jianhai and he is really a multi-millionaire he should have no troubles compensating for the laundering & mixing fees etc. Maybe he can even sell a relic or two? |
|
|
|
I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.
He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.
Thanks Zhou. It is a far cry from the 40K BTC / 40K USD stolen, but it is a start. Can you please share the transaction id? |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
