The thing with the CO-OP I think if we go out and find cheap electricity for it we could easily beat that. I would hope .03-.04 would be my goal range for the mining CO-OP to be able to compete with the "big guys".
Finding the right place for electricity and setting that up would be a big part of the initial setup period.
A lot more risks come into play if we decide to build our own datacenter. We'd need to hire dedicated support staff and provide an absolutely massive upfront investment. It will take far longer to get from planning --> funding --> hashing. Remember, our quoted hosting rate includes not only electricity, but dedicated staff and space in the datacenter as well. For that reason I think we should outsource our hosting--although we don't win on cost, it greatly lowers risk (its hard for someone to run with the funds), and greatly increases transparency. I say we keep it as simple as possible. I agree, kinda. It's good that it includes rack space, management and cooling. Probably save a couple of watts on cooling that makes up for the "higher" kwh/$. But, if we could get community members to host it at a better hosting price, I'm all for it! Ex: Guys like dmwardjr got 36k W available for mining at home  I think we could get most of the skills needed to set it up. I think initial investment would not be horrible if we can find a place that rents in a area of low electricity. I could be wrong but I think going with a data center we will pay twice the electricity price we could get. I would hope we could find a place close to a member or two, but that could be wishful thinking. But it would be a heck of a lot easier I agree with that. I don't see it really being a CO-OP if we use a data center though. That is something any of us could do now. CO-OP: a business or organization that is owned and operated by the people who work there or the people who use its services. Are there any data centers in US you are looking at? A lot of data centers are going to have a VAT in other countries. Does the one your looking at have a vat to get miners sent there? |
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Great guide as always. Love your high rez pictures.
What camera do you use to take those? I always am amazed by your photo work.
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I'm actually impressed, that make it super simple and super modular. How do you cut the plastic? With a wood saw? And where do you get those... "Egg Crates" for cheap? Then you just tie wrap the miner stuff and maybe hot glue or screw the plastic in place.
Right now i just put my stick on the hub and put it on the side so that the USB fan sticking out from the mobo blow air on it.
Egg crate is made of stiff polystyrene plastic, so it's easy to cut. I typically use diagonal cutters. The plastic easily splits along the cut line. Very easy to work with. Got the idea to use this stuff from a very different hobby (salt water aquariums). I bought a big panel a couple of years ago and have built out three small scale rigs out of the stuff. Usually I just tack down the power supplies, hubs, etc. with zip ties. Once the components are in place, the rig is effectively portable. It's typically used as paneling for lighting fixtures, especially comercial fluorescents, in the US at least. Any building supply or lighting company should have it for pretty cheap. If you search for "egg crate plastic" you'll find a ton of options. Very clean setup. I really like the plastic. I really wonder what a 3d printing master could do with plastic. How fast are you running those 2 compacs? |
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Donation vs sticks matters in that only the 'sticks' actually partake (at least in this round) should this club hit a block, the donation ones are just that, donation. Mostly up to phil - I really wouldn't mind a fixed forum post (e.g. the first post), if phil's most comfortable with that.. should be able to get the bot to parse it out, at least as long as it's somewhat consistent (again, e.g. "philipma1957s7" isn't clear if that's a stick or donation, from a bot's perspective - could assume anything that isn't 'stick' is donation, but then there's e.g. "kipper01") - json is cleaner, but might not exactly be second nature to him  will try to get a sorted neat list out on the top page want to be loose and easy the first 30 days so you can donate and get a share. we are 11-26 15 days in. OK. We'll keep things simple and as-is for now. We can figure something out that works for everyone once we're on the other side of the 30 days. In the meantime, I'll give this some more thought. But I'm back to thinking that a shared dropbox link of an unformatted text file is the simplest approach. It's easy to share the file for editing. And following redirects in Python is no problem, so the notification script can easily read a dropbox file. Under the hood, I might use a list like this myself just to make it easier to update my instance of the notification script. I can share the link with TheRealSteve if he's interested. Anyway, we can return to this when the time is right... In the meantime, I finally got my Y connectors and time to use them. Yesterday I doubled the output of my 2 sticks to a whopping 33.8 GH/s! Yea it looks like they can OC from 8 pretty nicely. I'm still working on my setup to OC them. The only thing I think for sure we should keep is base hash power on sticks not donation if we ever did hit a block. I'm not sure how to do it fairly but donation count to somehow. As it's awesome of Phil to do so much donation hash. Just don't want it where big hashing machines crush the stick ratio. One S3 even is a lot of sticks. Again none of this matters till after first 30 day's. Having multiple stick entry would be kind of trouble some. Tho rewarding for people, unlike me, who have gotten multiple sticks. Already of course, a user could make multiple entries with other sticks since we weren't required to prove the uniqueness of our sticks, but if you let people just say "Oh yeah those 120 gh? Totally 20 sticks" while its just a underclocked S1 for instance... xD People will eventually catch on to both how to hack the system and us who cheat but iunno. I always assume people will come that have ill intentions. Another system regardless of what we do in the future would be to do a verification of trusted owner with a pic and your name with a TXID, the TXID being there to prevent a user from making a pic with the same sticks over and over for his alts. The hard part to is I get around 8gh when I run normal. Once I run OC i will get around 16gh(some have shown 20 I have not gotten that high yet but it's possible). So you can get 2x as much from running hot. I think that is still fair as it's a compac. It would be easy for someone to game the system. But if we suspect anyone of doing it we can easily ask for picture of sticks. Hopefully no one will do it as it would ruin their rep. Also I am hoping this club is a long term thing. Chances of hitting a block are slim so hopefully we get to know everyone within the club as I hope it turns into a social aspect. |
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Donation vs sticks matters in that only the 'sticks' actually partake (at least in this round) should this club hit a block, the donation ones are just that, donation. Mostly up to phil - I really wouldn't mind a fixed forum post (e.g. the first post), if phil's most comfortable with that.. should be able to get the bot to parse it out, at least as long as it's somewhat consistent (again, e.g. "philipma1957s7" isn't clear if that's a stick or donation, from a bot's perspective - could assume anything that isn't 'stick' is donation, but then there's e.g. "kipper01") - json is cleaner, but might not exactly be second nature to him will try to get a sorted neat list out on the top page want to be loose and easy the first 30 days so you can donate and get a share. we are 11-26 15 days in. OK. We'll keep things simple and as-is for now. We can figure something out that works for everyone once we're on the other side of the 30 days. In the meantime, I'll give this some more thought. But I'm back to thinking that a shared dropbox link of an unformatted text file is the simplest approach. It's easy to share the file for editing. And following redirects in Python is no problem, so the notification script can easily read a dropbox file. Under the hood, I might use a list like this myself just to make it easier to update my instance of the notification script. I can share the link with TheRealSteve if he's interested. Anyway, we can return to this when the time is right... In the meantime, I finally got my Y connectors and time to use them. Yesterday I doubled the output of my 2 sticks to a whopping 33.8 GH/s! Yea it looks like they can OC from 8 pretty nicely. I'm still working on my setup to OC them. The only thing I think for sure we should keep is base hash power on sticks not donation if we ever did hit a block. I'm not sure how to do it fairly but donation count to somehow. As it's awesome of Phil to do so much donation hash. Just don't want it where big hashing machines crush the stick ratio. One S3 even is a lot of sticks. Again none of this matters till after first 30 day's. |
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I would be in for an investment pending the setup and hw pricing. Was looking at buy an SP50 for my farm, but would love to get lower than .075 electricity like I have now.
The thing with the CO-OP I think if we go out and find cheap electricity for it we could easily beat that. I would hope .03-.04 would be my goal range for the mining CO-OP to be able to compete with the "big guys". Finding the right place for electricity and setting that up would be a big part of the initial setup period. |
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Im happy to say i sold my S4 today for what i paid for it 9 months ago.. US$850
I leave this thread after many month of fun...
Later!
What country did you get 850? Mind saying where you sold it? Dang someone paid quite a bit more the going rate. |
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Mine are back up. The power company decided to make changes and shutdown some parts of their grid... lucky me I was one of the ones with it off.
But back up now and usb's are hashing away.
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OK, so it was the little graphic attached to the Amazon listing that means to you "Selling quite well". I hadn't noticed that before. I wonder what criteria Amazon uses, though that's probably a bit off-topic.
well, the fact that it is #1 in servers tells me that it is "selling quite well" (better than antminer S5, for example, which is #3). Who buy's miners from amazon though? That is one of the last places people buy S5's, S3's. Ebay and this forum are king. I am surprised it is in server category. It makes me wonder what its calculation is to get number one. Did it sell more in X day's. How do they have it weigheted. But either way selling better then I thought. |
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Estimated Next Difficulty: 60,896,634,893 (+2.63%) Damn!
Will we ever see again +25% jumps?!?! .....
We have grown to the point +25 most likely will never happen again. If some how all the companies came up with a new NM at once and pumped out a ton..... guess there is a way it could happen but it wont. I think 5 is seen as a big jump now. The day's we got 15-25's we also were having 3 month ROI in many cases. Roi is longer and percent rising is slower aswell. |
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But to have it automated would be good. My coding skills are really poor a C- at best. More like a D+
No problem. I code for living so I'm sure we can make this work Phil, what I'm thinking is you'd have the master text file that would list the club members' worker addresses. When a change needs to be made, you'd edit the file and then post it. I can probably provide a simple bash script to do the posting to make that easier. Periodically the notification script would run and get a fresh copy of the posted list via http. I assume Steve's IRC bot can do the same. The effect is that changes would be automatically propagated. Anyone else who wants to see the list can just click on the link in their browser, or use the IRC bot, which would show the latest stats. Sound good? The question is where to post the list. I played around with Dropbox, but in order to support raw files they employ a redirect, which is kind of a pain. Unless someone has another idea, it back to looking like the simplest way to do this is going to be for me to set up a VM Web server that supports receiving the file from Phil. Thanks for all your work I like the idea of a HTTP site that you can click and see stats. I know it must be a good amount of work going on to get it. On the HTTP think we could see a time period? Not sure how long is best if a week (I was thinking month but that might be cluttered). Make it where it updates at a certain time of day. So maybe show user - then one week showing the hashrate1d for previous 7 days. |
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http://btc.blockr.io/chartsSept 17 143 Sept 18 147 So very close to 1% Sept 19 127 and as of now we are negative for the real time number. - 15 blocks which is close to -4% !!! Sept 20 124 so we are - 35 blocks as of last night. Sept 21 130 so we are -49 Sept 22 162 and that is plus 18 so we are at -31 Sept 23 155 plus 11 brings us to -20 Sept 24 137 minus 7 brings us to -27 as of 10 pm last night Sept 25. 167 plus 23 brings us to -4 as of 10 pm Friday Sept 26 152 plus 8 brings us to plus 4 as of 10 pm sat https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty is at (+2.31%)we made 1340 blocks and have 676 left. This is about 4.5 days. . that 2.31 is off real time number of 1340 vs 1336 = +0.299% for us to reach 2.31% is possible if we do the next 4 days over 150 average. To not get the 5 percent would be nice. I'm would like a change under 2 again, but I dont think that will happen. At least hopefully not another +5 week... hopefully |
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With an investment that, large 10+ Sp50's, I think it would be worth while to form an LLC or S-corp... for protections on both ends before and after the purchase but thats just my 2 cents And personally, I wouldnt touch the BTCS stock, at least not yet. BTCS has been operating at a loss since day one. Although, year over year they have managed to diminish the total deficit/year operating loss... it is still far from a profitable holding. There are a few forms LLC or S-corp types. Some require board meetings. If we made a min investment to join, we could have a "board" and decide business through it. With skype we would be able to do it online even. I think the main thing is finding cheap electricity location. If we can do our own location I think we can get the lowest possible price, no middle man. Just the CO-OP owning it. I honestly hope something like this happens |
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While dogie was overly terse, I don't think that Spondoolies has announced a ship date or price for the 110TH SP50. As far as I know, the 100 BTC "price" is pure speculation at this time. You should probably follow this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.13420It's pretty much showing off so far. And we are taking them at their word on it as we have not seen a working unit just pictures of the design. A lot we don't know and most likely will not know for a while. |
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My 4 Compcac "Cube".
Thanks for sharing! Very cool use of the old block erupter cube. I have been playing wit the Y usb still some to get more speed. I need to find a nice way to let them sit infront of the fan's. Looks very nice with usb direct on hub but y cable means I need a new design. |
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The price on the S7's vs the hash rate of the S5 set up on their site is what I was using as a gauge tbh. Three s5+ miners putting out 7.7 TH vs one S7 at 4.5TH. The price difference I think is $600 so not too bad for the extra 3.2TH. I really want to start out with at minimum 20TH. How is the noise and heat factor off of your S5 btw?
I have a area I have made for mining. If you do 20 TH I can tell you from experience if you have hot summer day's you will need to find way's to cool it down. I did it with sheer cfm of lots of fan's and a great exhaust. If you are lucky you climate allows evaporation cooling, mine does not. Again to do this you really need to know a lot more about your electricity. I knew I had 100 amps just for mining in my mining area. Then another 200 in house if I wanted to put any miners in house. The only thing i can recommend and what i am setting up for next summer is putting all the exhaust of your miner strait through a window and keep the ambiant temp lower with a strong A/C. I have mixed results at the moment since i have a very bad A/C, as in the ambient temp is still higher than exterior, but i'm still able to run 7000 watts in a small appartment while keeping the miners in good shape. At the moment temperature is FINALLY going down, so for the next 8 months i can just keep everything cool by using outdoor temps, but for summer, some good A/C will be required to keep my farm quiet enough. Kinda same here it's going down a little, hotest day's are over. But winter has not hit yet. But I used two of these to push new air into the miners pretty quick together thats over 14k cfm being pushed - http://www.lowes.com/pd_416730-11292-SFDC2-600T_0__?Ntt=416730&UserSearch=416730&productId=4755305&rpp=32Two smaller fans bringing air from front windows. Along with air vents along roof. Worked well: Then on exhaust did a heck of an upgrade and man does it push some air out - http://www.homedepot.com/p/QuietCool-Professional-3013-CFM-Power-Gable-Mount-Attic-Fan-AFG-PRO-3-0/206047381 Had over 14k watts of gear during height. But recently got rid of some of the older miners. |
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S5 run up to 80C before shutting down. The temp sensor is on the cool side of the PCB, so I imagine the chips are actually a fair bit warmer. Measuring the heatsink on the Compac will probably get a more accurate temp measure than the S5 does, and if it's well below 80C you should be fine. Could also measure the backside of the PCB right behind the chip.
Thank you! I appreciate your time on it. I feel better hearing 80C. I will look at temp sensors and see best I can find. But I have to say these sticks do go up to 16GH nicely with a Y splitter. One does data other just gets power. |
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BITMAIN promised us. I hope they will keep their words. p.s. fortunately I have an access to free electricity, that's why I haven't sold my S2 yet.  p.p.s. how about e-mail attack, like several months ago about GPL terms?..  It might make the most sense to figure out what you could get for the S2 if you sold it today. Use that as a cost figure, and churn the numbers on how long it will take to break-even with 0 running cost.Can you wait that long? Do you want to? I think continuing to wait for Bitmain, or harping at them is a waste of time. They have forgotten about this months ago. The graphic above from Finsky sums it up. One thing I could not tell who is in the graphic above? I do agree time to let go. |
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There isn't much point of this, it has to be smaller miners inside otherwise you lose all forms of modularity. Any downtime costs you $100 an hour rather than just a module going offline etc, and then the purchase price is inflated because its a container ($2-3k) and inbuilt infrastructure.
When the alternative is 10 SP50s or 200S5s, I can't see anyone buying a container.
I can't remember the name but there was a company that sold containers like this just without miners. They took containers and put electrical and cooling. They thought they would have customers but seems that company died. Have not seem anything from them. I have a feeling you are right and this container project just like other one will not take off. My company didn't die -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=948523.msg11143766#msg11143766Another design, from Canada: http://www.cryptokube.com/I appolgize I could not remember the name and it had been so long since post in that thread could not find it. Assumed it had died. Are you actually selling theses in a decent quantity? |
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Virosa, /etc/init.d/cgminer.sh
Thank you! Look like the guide to install smit's worked tho. So i get a nice 2800-2600 RPM now. And i manually installed cgminer 4.9.0. So i'm messing with voltage now, look like even though its not the PSU that came with the machine (That one died according to the original owner), the replacement he got is the same crap. It look pretty unstable, it doesn't even seem to do 0710 at 206.5 without eventually a drop in hash after 20-30 minutes and a few chip drops. snip Which version is it on power? There are the ones that use the pols and the pcie ones. If pcie it's pretty easy to change out (other requires cutting and more time to do) But it's a little bit more power then you need but if on 220/240 I would look at the bitmain server PSU's - https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201505040743496917U7kGsCm0694 . They are a little pricey but I have been impressed with them. It's not PCI-e. But its not particularly hard to change out, basically the problem i have is i don't have any 240V outlets. And i'm not sure i want to start stripping my electric heating off and do the wiring myself to plug those wires in a 240 outlet because i have no experience with that, its not very necessary yet, i'm supposed to move soon etc. It is something i consider doing once i have moved however. With the blunt fact that i paid 400$ for the S4, i don't really feel like paying 200$ to get 300 more GH from it... Unless some nice deal fall on my lap, i don't think i will be changing the PSU. I'm planning on running it just under its max load of 1440W so hopefully it wont crap out before i'm done with it. I would agree on your math. If you paid 400 I would probley just let it run at current spec as any good PSU is probley cheapest 1/4 of the cost miner... and 25 percent for psu is pretty high. I was hoping it was PCIe where you did not have to cut. With the antminer one it could be cut... but not sure on replacement after it would probley lose a little value on psu. On 240 if you have the power it is not as hard to do as i thought. I owe phil a lot on helping me with parts. But you would have to first look at your main and see how many amps if 100 chances are not really set up for it. 200 amps then chances are can handle another 240 install. Yeah i checked it a while back, its a 125AMP circuit and i'm not sure how high i want to keep it running 24/7. For instance sure i could probably go to 80-90 AMP but then what happen when i use the oven and hot water tank? Blap over circuit, i think the switch is in the apartment's electric room so it might be a bit hard to explain how i tripped 125AMP in an apartment. The board says 125AMP 120/240 so i'm not quite sure what it's real limit is and i don't have a way to track how much consumption the other appliances put on it and i'm already at 60AMP at 120v just with miners. So maybe i could get away with one 240v but then again it's hard to tell accurately how much power i can take with all the stuff on at the same time. The main thing is the breaker at top of main. If that says 125 its hard to say I guess you would need to go through and see how much you are using. Honestly you chances are could get a electrician to put in a quote and ask them... might be able to get that anwser for free. But if you use too much it should flip the main and everything goes off. So no not really a great thing to happen. Would be a pain. |
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