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641  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: August 27, 2015, 03:59:05 PM


Also, unlike the childish rethoric of poors vs rich or smallblockers vs. blockstream brought to you by very naive people, Mike & Gavin have pretty much revealed themselves as indeed very dangerous for Bitcoin. That's a difference and it needs to be addressed. AFAIK none of the small blocks proponent have put the ecosystem at risk like these two clowns did.

Yes, XT has already lost:


You continue to be a source of comedy gold.  You have been played for a fool, and now you are out on your own, alone, with nothing to fight.

The debate will continue without you - we are now deciding what size the increase will be.
642  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: August 27, 2015, 02:14:57 PM
You know, it's pretty tough to have a fruitful discussion with so much ad hominem being thrown around.

You ask this on a thread titled "Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud)" and see no irony at all.   Huh Huh

643  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT has code which downloads your IP address to facilitate blacklisting on: August 27, 2015, 12:31:13 PM
If Fork is issued by Bitcoin XT, it becomes another Altcoin.  The Bitcoin Core is the only one Original BTC.

true, but who would care about an original bitcoin with hours between new blocks? a transaction backlog that huge that even servers cant store the UTXO?

no one Wink

(btw this is true for *any* fork of the bitcoin blockchain)

Who cares about free transactions? Im holding anyway and by then wont be annoyed paying a little to transfer big money when ever, where ever, to who ever.

the point is you cant... because none of your beloved elitist-mpex-lovers would ever touch mining hardware.

where did i wrote anything about free transactions? even with 1TB blocks miners are not forced to put free transactions in a block (and they would be dumb if they do as soon as the block reward is too low ofc)

Ah thèse guys are all in for +100k$/btc. You seem not. So pardon me for suggesting to go fork yourself.

Says the guy who got involved buying miners when bitcoin was about $1100 a coin...   How did that work out for ya, champ?

You started out so positive, so hopeful. I guess bitcoin hasn't been too good a ride for you,  n'est-ce pas ?   Grin
644  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: August 27, 2015, 08:41:50 AM
Of course not. But in typical dictator fashion they have managed to use their authority, PR & industry relations to instill false expectations into more simple users and steer the masses to get behind them against a "common enemy" on the premise of "inclusion" and general abuse of the sever misunderstanding of your typical redditor.

They absolutely have a right to release different code but it should stand on its own and not require a complete propaganda campaign.

There is now a recurring theme of cripplecoiners just reusing arguments levelled against them. What you wrote is pretty much exactly what has been said about those who would block development in the area of block size increase (the dictators) and those on the forums who tirelessly post anti XT rhetoric to try and convince everyone that Mike and Gavin are the enemy.

Then hilariously you suggest they should be allowed release code that stands on its own. Which is exactly what has been said about lightning.

Cut and paste designed to muddy the waters. You are a relentless poster, unnaturally so IMHO. So tell me is this propaganda?

"XT has already lost"


Sobett, brg444 is a disciple of the Wences Casares school of "Bitcoin-as-a-ponzi-scheme', where he will get rich because - 5 Billion People, right?  There is little or no argument you can make to people like that, They feel that if enough fools can be induced into buying bitcoin simply as a store of value, that the early adopters all get fabulously wealthy. They have no plan for bitcoin as a token of exchange or as a viable economic infrastructure. They are the stupid, greedy minority, who feel the world owes them a living for doing nothing.

He has no interest in bitcoin ever being used as a peer-to-peer cash system as Satoshi set out to create, and that those on both sides of the blocksize debate are trying to create.  To him it is a ponzi scheme that will make him rich.

In my opinion there is only a minority of people that care to use Bitcoin for daily transactions. Most people "hoard" it as a store of value and to speculate.
645  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: August 27, 2015, 12:06:36 AM
Since Lightning is open source Blockstream has no proprietary advantage over its development, its deployment or monetization.  
Have you ever heard about the network effect?  Roll Eyes

Are you proposing only Blockstream will host Lightning nodes and that there will not be competition for them? That would be rather shortsighted.

brg444/tvcof: give it up. you have lost. Its going to be big blocks, the only details they are deciding is how big.

You have failed your blockstream paymasters. I hope their retribution upon you is slow and merciless.... They are clever people and they do not suffer fools like you gladly.

 Grin Grin Grin


There is a distinction here. It's going to be bigger blocks, nothing outrageous like 20mb or 8mb like the XT team was pushing for.

I'm not sure you can find a post from me here arguing we should keep block size at 1mb forever but feel free to looks into my post history if you care.


No distinction. The 1mb block limit is dead, kaput, gone. They are just agreeing on what the new size will be.

Thats how consensus works. Sometimes it can get messy, but as long as the destination is not in question, nobody gives a shit about how we get there.
646  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: August 26, 2015, 11:58:42 PM
Since Lightning is open source Blockstream has no proprietary advantage over its development, its deployment or monetization. 
Have you ever heard about the network effect?  Roll Eyes

Are you proposing only Blockstream will host Lightning nodes and that there will not be competition for them? That would be rather shortsighted.

brg444/tvcof: give it up. you have lost. Its going to be big blocks, the only details they are deciding is how big.

You have failed your blockstream paymasters. I hope their retribution upon you is slow and merciless.... They are clever people and they do not suffer fools like you gladly.

 Grin Grin Grin
647  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT has code which downloads your IP address to facilitate blacklisting on: August 26, 2015, 06:30:13 AM
We do need to have in place shortly the ability to increase the block size....

And thats what is happening - no argument there.

Quote from: kano
so that some time down the track when the pools/miners believe it would be ideal to increase it, that will be possible without the crap that is going on now.

So its just a question of scheduling? Fair enough. But if the larger portion of Miners and Pools want them sooner than you, you will support them, right?



648  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT has code which downloads your IP address to facilitate blacklisting on: August 25, 2015, 10:41:14 PM
So you completely missed the entire point of what I said ... the issue is they are using a too low 75% ...

...
BIP101 activates *only* if XT has >75% of hashing power.
...
False.

Bitcoin mining is random statistics.
It's not 10 minutes per block, every block.

Edit: and to give an example:
My pool mined 17 blocks at under 30% difficulty - yep luck was on a roll when that happened.
At the time, if there was any voting happening, for that period of time my pool would have effectively voted at over 300% of it's hash power.

But that's possible, isn't it? I mean hashing rate is probabilistic.  If you take a narrow sample you can easily find boundary cases proliferate. But then if you take the sample as a whole, then the 'averages' will dominate. While your pool did well for that run of blocks, there had to be another n blocks where the difficulty was over 200%.

So its not random overall.  But any sample will appear to be.
649  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: You can't have it both ways on: August 25, 2015, 09:57:49 PM

The sidechains business model does not, in any way, suffer from larger blocks. It is more likely it would benefit them so your Blockstream paranoia is just that, FUD. 

We will see. It looks like we are getting bigger blocks in the new year, whether its XT or Core - doesn't matter. I imagine that without upward price pressure on transactions  the sidechain adoption curve will flatten significantly. But it will happen, and I'm sure it will be successful at offering an alternative model for low value/high frequency transactions - but not at the expense of those who choose to transact  directly on the chain.
650  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. [NooNooPol] on: August 25, 2015, 09:43:17 PM


Quote
“We do support big blocks”

 

Thats the key take away here. Nobody cares who he hates, or who he wants to shove his d into, or who should resign or who should run for president.
 
What he is saying is - "I dont give a shit what your reasons are Core, but give me big blocks or I wont support you..."


Its big blocks all the way, yo.   Grin Grin
651  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: You can't have it both ways on: August 25, 2015, 08:03:59 PM

Most of the pro-XTs say when blocks become full, people use sidechain for transactions but sidechain needs space to support this. If there is no storage, how can sidechains work? In fact, sidechain needs more time to finish its development. Core devs are not stupid to not increase block size for such a long time.

Once a large proportion of low value transactions are moved onto sidedchains, they need far fewer transactions on the bloackchain to support them.  The increase in transaction size is very small (assuming they dont go mad with the spv scripts) and will have plenty of room in the now near empty blocks.
652  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BlockStream or BitcoinXT? Those are your choices, gentlemen. on: August 25, 2015, 03:34:16 PM
I would like to point out here that this has become a political problem, not a technical problem. We should try to look at this from a political and economics perspective. Part of the problem might be that some people are looking at this, as if it is an engineering problem when it is far more political in nature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaaknMDbQGc

Its more a technical problem that has been made into a political one. Make of that what you will....

HOW ABOUT YOU PUT IT BACK UP WHERE IT CAME FROM? MR TECHNICAL EXPRETTT.

So much for having me on ignore, you retard.  Cheesy Lying is just second nature to you, isn't it?

653  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BlockStream or BitcoinXT? Those are your choices, gentlemen. on: August 25, 2015, 01:08:46 PM
You ignoramus. Just answer the question.

By limiting the blocksize, they create an artificial upwards price pressure between high value users. This will eventually make the price of putting a low value transaction on the native bitcoin blockchain uneconomic. Low value users will be forced on to alternatives - conveniently implemented using sidechains. Yhe value proposition of value chains is their use for frequent, low value transactions, and fixing the block size at 1mb will ensure demand.

your point above is bullshit - if you move 80% of traffic off-chain,  you have enough room to bloat the chain as much as you like. You could put a 100kb spv proof script in there if you like, there will be nothing else in the block except a few sidechain consolidations.

What is exactly a low value transaction? Your definition. Because some low value transactions have been uneconomic for a long time already. The definition of low value is subjective and is constantly changing.

And what's more important - how Blockstream is supposed to monetize on sidechains if their motives are selfish?

You re right - it is entirely subjective. The user may feel that they get more economic value by putting it on a sidechain. But at least they will have the choice.

I'm sure they can figure out a way to monetize it when they roll out well developed  shrink wrapped sidechain implementations
654  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 25, 2015, 12:43:35 PM
By all accounts the actions of Mike & Gavin warrant far more suspicion than conjectures about Blockstream's influence over the block size decision.

You have your nose, I have mine...  Tongue

Seeing as Blockstream would clearly benefit from block size increase, please entertain us with your arguments.

How many times, in how many threads, does this need to be pointed out to you?

read it here again
655  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. [NooNooPol] on: August 25, 2015, 11:57:31 AM

You mean kilobytes. And it rarely hits 900 kb, its more like between 300-500, and if it rarely hits 1 mb, oh boy, i dont think a little delay will affect people.

Now to make it more performant i think the 4-8 mb block increase should be appropriate now, simultaneously with some internal payment processors, that can do the dust transactions inhouse (without fee, but centralized) while the big ones would go (with fee, but decentralized) on the blockchain.

XAPO,COINBASE,BITPAY, CIRCLE, etc could/should do it....

Yes, sorry. Not since the days of the zx81 has a kilobyte been so important.!  Smiley

I'm sure that will happen - but it will happen in the context of an open market on the blockchain.
656  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. [NooNooPol] on: August 25, 2015, 11:54:04 AM

A dynamic blocksize can outgrow (and disincentivise) whatever spam attack that anyone throws at it. BIP101 has no chance against that.

Dynamic dosn't mean infinite.

Spam attacks won't be infinite either. Go home.

Stick to your small blocks then, and fork off into a footnote in the history of bitcoin, Carlton
657  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. [NooNooPol] on: August 25, 2015, 11:47:07 AM

Blockstream was never meant to be in competition with Bitcoin and definitely could not pretend to any "unfair advantage". good morning lambtroll Smiley

Of course it is. To make a compelling business case fro sidechains, there has to be a large volume of traffic. The best way to get this volume ( without creating it or finding it yourself) is o take it from the existing traffic. If fee's can be forced upwards, it makes it easier to coax that traffic from native bitcoin to a privately run sidechain.

I should point out that I have no beef with the idea of sidechains. Or LN for that matter. But I feel they need to stand on their own merits, and compete for traffic on their own merits, and not through a competitive advantage achieved by an artificial price distortion.

If I was lambie, I would be inserting bouncing ponies here.  Wink
658  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. [NooNooPol] on: August 25, 2015, 11:37:10 AM

A dynamic blocksize can outgrow (and disincentivise) whatever spam attack that anyone throws at it. BIP101 has no chance against that.


Yeah, you truly are handicapped - finally something I agree with you on.   Grin  (joking)

Blocksize is already dynamic. Have a look at the recent block sizes, they vary from 300kb to over 900kb. Edit: Cheesy fixed to kb. Thanks RealBitcoin

However, it will be always limited by whatever max blocksize is set to. Dynamic dosn't mean infinite.

And you are right, as max size gets larger, spam attacks are disincentiveised, so not sure why you say that.  Huh
659  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. [NooNooPol] on: August 25, 2015, 10:46:29 AM
BIP101 (and BIP100 as well) is gaining strength, caused by XT. That's the only thing that's important.

Both will get tossed aside once our good folks at Blockstream release their BIP for a flex cap  Smiley



And when that happens, we win.

Once blocks can grow at their own rate, blockstream will be in competition with native bitcoin, with no unfair advantage. And thats really whats going on here. Nobody gives a shit about XT v. Core.  Its about maintaining a level playing field.

 Grin
660  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. [NooNooPol] on: August 25, 2015, 12:34:14 AM
How about decentralization for big transactions and centralization for small ones?


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