WTF? Huge lag at Gox?
seems alright at the moment |
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You're mistaking correlation for causation. They are both on similar upward angles but BTC corrects for other reasons.
This. |
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The fact that there a significant percentage people who apparently think Paypal adoption could possibly hurt Bitcoin, is very bullish for the price. It means many investors, even here, have little understanding of the investment situation.
I have trouble believing that. Maybe I have too much faith in humanity  |
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@OP: Suggestion: Lock this thread besides you updating it. Make a single post about it each time so everybody is notified.
I like the idea and it should be separate from discussion. If you like make a separate fundamental analysis discussion thread and link to it from the original post.
People can still pm you with fundamental news. An alternative might be a self moderated thread so that you can delete all off topic posts.
Thanks for the suggestion - for now I think it's working just fine. People rarely comment here anyway. I will create a new thread if at some point that changes however. |
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...and they significantly reduce the incentive for online retailers to adopt bitcoin at all.
I strongly disagree with this. In what way can you justify this? I have a case for the opposite. Retailers will always weigh risk vs. benefit. If they'd rather just pay the 3-5% and not 'bother' with bitcoin, many will unfortunately. As bitcoin use and awareness grows, and the exchange rate stabilizes, the incentive (no fees, no chargebacks) will eventually tip the scales toward adoption. Paypal's strategy will just slow down the process IMHO. who says that their fees will be 3-5% for bitcoin transactions? They know better to keep an increased margin in the face of rapid numbers of competitors. They may be able to get away with that margin as a first mover for awhile, but in a year from now there is no chance they will succeed at those levels. People will simply move to the new beautiful baby silicon valley spawns to suck from the teet of the dinosaur. My assumption is that they'll allow bitcoin funding but not bitcoin balances. This would suit their fee structure optimally. No doubt they will adapt if they need to, but at this time they wouldn't really need to allow a BTC balance or accept reduced fees. It will be very interesting, whatever they do. That doesnt really make sense. Who would use them just to convert to cash? There are plenty of other places to do that already. The real value for the consumer here is the FDIC insured, household brand name wallet that makes them feel safe and cuddly when they hold their bitcoins there. Make no mistake about it, this is the smart and only play. Well, it would certainly be huge if they did carry btc balances and do btc transactions, it'd be easy enough for them to just add another currency (btc). They'd suddenly be in competition with Coinbase, BitPay, etc, and - since they'd be an exchange - every other exchange including Mt.Gox. Seems pretty unlikely, though. The only reason anyone would want/need to send bitcoin through paypal would be the perceived safety of the chargeback and dispute resolution 'features' of Paypal. I dont really see them being an exchange at all actually (at least not at first). Exchange isnt really a core competency of theirs. I see them holding coins in a safe place and integrating with fiat so you can pay both ways with one account anywhere. |
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It should be noted before getting too excited, like some of these responses are, actually read my transcription, and remember that he probably wasn't expecting to talk about Bitcoin.
GJ: Can I ask you something - left-field question?
DM: Sure
GJ: Bitcoin...
DM: Uh-huh
GJ: virtual currencies...what do you make of that?
DM: So, I've been spending a lot of time looking at it,
GJ: I'm sure
DM: and it's truly fascinating, actually, the way the, that the currency's been designed, and the way that, uh, you know, inflation is built in to pay for miners, and...
GJ: Yeah
DM: all that is truly fascinating. Um, and I think, you know for us at PayPal, it's just a question of...whether Bitcoin will make it's way to PayPal as a funding instrument or not, and uh, and ya know, we're kind of uh.. of thinking about it.
GJ: I, I guess, like yeah, like the rest of us, we're all kind of watching it, sort of with, with, with a great deal of interest, but kind of, a lot of people have been taken aback by, by the sort of.. of the velocity of the moves.
Whats your point? Sure, it's not an official announcement of any sort. However the unexpected quality makes it even more revealing... Yeah exactly. It was like a window into their high level discussions/ strategy inside Paypal. You could tell by his sheepishness that it is a major strategic point for the company. |
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It should be noted before getting too excited, like some of these responses are, actually read my transcription, and remember that he probably wasn't expecting to talk about Bitcoin.
GJ: Can I ask you something - left-field question?
DM: Sure
GJ: Bitcoin...
DM: Uh-huh
GJ: virtual currencies...what do you make of that?
DM: So, I've been spending a lot of time looking at it,
GJ: I'm sure
DM: and it's truly fascinating, actually, the way the, that the currency's been designed, and the way that, uh, you know, inflation is built in to pay for miners, and...
GJ: Yeah
DM: all that is truly fascinating. Um, and I think, you know for us at PayPal, it's just a question of...whether Bitcoin will make it's way to PayPal as a funding instrument or not, and uh, and ya know, we're kind of uh.. of thinking about it.
GJ: I, I guess, like yeah, like the rest of us, we're all kind of watching it, sort of with, with, with a great deal of interest, but kind of, a lot of people have been taken aback by, by the sort of.. of the velocity of the moves.
Whats your point? |
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This. I think the whole idea why we moved away from these PayPal-like methods to Bitcoin is because we don't have to deal with these a$$holes.
Not having to [deal with PP] is a good thing. Not being able to, not so good. Having the choice can only be a good thing for everyone involved. this. |
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...and they significantly reduce the incentive for online retailers to adopt bitcoin at all.
I strongly disagree with this. In what way can you justify this? I have a case for the opposite. Retailers will always weigh risk vs. benefit. If they'd rather just pay the 3-5% and not 'bother' with bitcoin, many will unfortunately. As bitcoin use and awareness grows, and the exchange rate stabilizes, the incentive (no fees, no chargebacks) will eventually tip the scales toward adoption. Paypal's strategy will just slow down the process IMHO. who says that their fees will be 3-5% for bitcoin transactions? They know better to keep an increased margin in the face of rapid numbers of competitors. They may be able to get away with that margin as a first mover for awhile, but in a year from now there is no chance they will succeed at those levels. People will simply move to the new beautiful baby silicon valley spawns to suck from the teet of the dinosaur. My assumption is that they'll allow bitcoin funding but not bitcoin balances. This would suit their fee structure optimally. No doubt they will adapt if they need to, but at this time they wouldn't really need to allow a BTC balance or accept reduced fees. It will be very interesting, whatever they do. That doesnt really make sense. Who would use them just to convert to cash? There are plenty of other places to do that already. The real value for the consumer here is the FDIC insured, household brand name wallet that makes them feel safe and cuddly when they hold their bitcoins there. Make no mistake about it, this is the smart and only play. |
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I got crushed today, $10,000s underwater. I don't think it is fun, and don't recommend shorting bitcoin.
Buy and hold.
Vladimir knows something you don't.
Why the fuck would you short bitcoin. There's been tons of buying pressure and obvious selling pressure trying to contain it (ask walls, not actually people wanting to sell). There's been a zillion bullish indicators, if you're shorting bitcoin right now you're blind. all of the pretty lines were saying we were headed down...  |
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...and they significantly reduce the incentive for online retailers to adopt bitcoin at all.
I strongly disagree with this. In what way can you justify this? I have a case for the opposite. Retailers will always weigh risk vs. benefit. If they'd rather just pay the 3-5% and not 'bother' with bitcoin, many will unfortunately. As bitcoin use and awareness grows, and the exchange rate stabilizes, the incentive (no fees, no chargebacks) will eventually tip the scales toward adoption. Paypal's strategy will just slow down the process IMHO. who says that their fees will be 3-5% for bitcoin transactions? They know better to keep an increased margin in the face of rapid numbers of competitors. They may be able to get away with that margin as a first mover for awhile, but in a year from now there is no chance they will succeed at those levels. People will simply move to the new beautiful baby silicon valley spawns to suck from the teet of the dinosaur. |
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David Marcus may be groomed well, but he's an outright liar.
He said that nobody will lose money using Paypal, the numerous stories floating around online telling about users having their assets frozen for 180 days with no apparent reason tells otherwise. Also their customer support sucks majorly.
I haven't given them business for years and years, and I hope nobody else valuing their own monies doesn't either.
You're right, noone around here is going to use them. That's not the point however. We are by far the vast minority of online users and the vast majority are using them and will continue to be using them for years to come. If they adopt bitcoin as a funding method, they just increased the userbase by an exponential order of magnitude. |
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OK.. so how would this work regarding taxes... I deposit BTC to my paypal account, and then turn around and buy something on the web denominated in $$ and pay with paypal... did I just "sell" my BTC for $$ and incure a capital gains tax liability? Or did I just buy something with BTC? Does this turn paypal into the ultimate exchange? Sigg Could be either or both. I'm guessing at first they will go head to head with blockchain and roll out more services over time. |
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Please can you add the date and Bloomberg source to the thread title.
Many thanks.
Updated Sorry to be a pedant, but the date should be 2013- 04-24. Some day we would like to get this section to Alpha-sort into correct order. Thanks again. np - done |
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*Winklevii power high-five. To the row-boats!
You sir, are on fire lol |
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Not sure if this is bad or good news...
how could it possibly be bad news? |
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Please can you add the date and Bloomberg source to the thread title.
Many thanks.
Updated |
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Interesting, he actually mentioned that they are considering it as a funding option. PayPal could jump onto the Bitcoin bandwagon and allow people an easy way to spend their hordes of BTC. This could be massive for both Bitcoin and Paypal. Bitcoin + Paypal could completely disrupt Visa and Mastercard in this way. Yep, looks like western union and paypal are looking at this new technology as a potential ally - and viewing it as a race to see who can utilize it the most effectively. This is great news (unless you are a bear). |
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