That is the impression I got as well (I you check the BTC transfers they are typically in the 2 digit range)


I'm happy for flower1024 but it worries me that they are paying out small claims with poor proof over large claims with solid proof. A lot of small mistaken payouts will still amount to a lot of losses. And genjix was claiming that any mistaken payouts will not be covered (which I find unacceptable btw). So it sucks if you are last in line simply because you had a lot of money there.

@mb300sd - You probably want to remove your personal @gmail address from your previous post. Especially if you are expecting MtGox codes to be posted to that address

My headers also reference riseup.net which I think genjix uses. So maybe he registered this email under your name? Why did you guys switch from verify@bitcoinica to bitcoinica.reimburse@gmail com anyway? Seems like a step down in security to me since any typo with a gmail account can end up in a typo scammers mailbox.


Anyway, keep sending MtGOX codes over plain email. Sounds like a wonderful idea to me. After all my claim is only in the 5 digits. Say what - why don't you just throw the money on the street and I come and pick it up. Sounds secure to me.

Incompetence, Negligence, Willful Ignorance, Inconsistency, It's all here folks. Oh and don't forget to tune in tomorrow for the 2 months celebration of this epic disaster.

That is funny because I received the following email from 'ryan bitcoinica'


Still have not received a dime back btw. 0. nada. zilch.

Unbelievable. First I have to send all my private data unencrypted to verify@bitcoinica.com, then to bitcoinica.reimburse@gmail.com (gmail.com - seriously!? I could have created bitconica.reimburse@gmail.com, reimburse.bitcoinica@gmail.com etc. to catch all the typo emails from customers if I wanted to). And now they are sending GOX code over plain email?? After being warned by customers not to do this many times? Why are you they not showing the claim codes on the https personal claim page?

Madoff had been going strong for 38 years (1970-2008). Of course he was only providing ~16.3% ROI per year. At the rate pirate is going he will run into the walls of reality a bit faster than that. Greed is rarely a good adviser. In general you should be very skeptical about anything that promises >7% return per year. Risk and reward go hand in hand. Just because you see some numbers on a screen, and you like what you see does not make it real.


Seems like pirate is catering to at least two of these. Of course - There is always the chance he could be a 'genuis' and really cares about helping his clients make tons of money out of the kindness of his heart. Yarr!

I'm also still at 0.

The last communication I received was on June 28:


What comes after triple checking? quadruple checking? I have not given my consent to Bitcoinica to hold on to my deposits after the closure of the trading platform almost 2 months ago now. Will Bitcoinica honor their own ToS?


Clearly Bitcoinica is unable to fulfill these obligations. The question is what 'Best effort' actually means. I would like to see online report representing my balance at this point in time.


Basically it states Bitcoinica liable for the amount of money customers deposited and should return this in full. I don't think Bitcoinica can penalize legit account holders for incorrect payouts they made to others in mistake. The question here is what 'PROVEN CIRCUMSTANCE' means. Is the burden of proof on the company or the customer? I would argue that this is primary Bitcoinica's responsibility. Bitcoinica is treating all customers as potential 'malicious agents' and treating any claim evidence as possibly faked.

The other interesting tidbit here is that when you provide funds using vouchers (e.g. MtGox claim codes), the originating institution will remain the holder of those deposits. So maybe I should ask MtGox for my Bitcoinica deposits back


Clearly Bitcoinica exercised this right as Bitcoinica has been suspended for almost 2 months now. It also appears that the closing price is non-negotiable. (fine with me, since I did not have open positions anyway)


Does the liability in this clause only apply to 'web site access' or also extend to liability for customer deposits and withdrawals?


The ToS gives customers the right to resolve claims of <10K through a Dispute Resolution Provider in NZ. Yet Bitcoinica did not register with a DRS. Has any customer made use of this kind of service. If so how? What options are available for claims > 10K?

I hope that plan does not involve trolling, but I doubt it.

Haven't followed the entire thread but a 3300% ROI per year from some guy named pirate? Sounds legit to me! Where do I sign up?


Welcome to bitcoinland kiddo! I've got a bridge to sell you.

See, I'm not so sure about that. Take the following quote for example:


This seems to indicate that BICOINICA CONSULTANCY is the GP (Intersango guys) and CORE CREDIT the LP (Tihans fund)

However a few weeks after the hack, on May 30 this happened:


The original Bitcoinica Consultancy was withdrawn from government records and Core Credit became Bitcoinica Consultancy (See: http://goo.gl/Lch6E). So who is the GP now? Sure it is still Bitcoinica Consultancy but it appears that behind the curtain there has been a change of guard. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I asked Donald about this over skype 2 weeks ago but he could not answer the question due to the NDA he is under. And other Bitcoinica LP members have largely ignored the issue. e.g:


So it would be good to get an official answer on the question LoupGaroux posed earlier: "Who is truly in charge, and more importantly, what business entity has taken on the legal responsibility for the fiduciary responsibility?"  

I agree with Transisto.

With great challenges come great opportunities - If you are able to fix this difficult situation (no db, dysfunctional organization) to your customers satisfaction, then it will only bolster your reputation. After all, you have been one of the few people willing to stand up and take the dirt from the public, who are understandably angry. Please don't take angry posts personally: In the end it is just business and people want to see their money back. Nothing more, nothing less. So please talk business and act business, that is all that is required here. No need to go on personal witch hunts.

That said... Genjix - you *do* realize that your profile on http://www.couchsurfing.org/people/genjix states:


;)

Who replaced Tihan as the point of contact for the Limited Partner?


Who now has legal control over the funds?


Who is the second person?


Who is Wendon? What is his role in Bitcoinica LP?


If you guys new things were fucked up from the start, then why you did you mislead the general public with posts like these:

http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/


Encouraging people (like me) to put their deposits in Bitcoinica while at the same time you guys knew that things were seriously fucked up is not a moral or ethical thing to do. Also this post made by Donald gave the impression you guys were in control and that the transition had been completed.


Unacceptable. Basically you are saying: If we make a mistake you pay for it. I did not read this in the Bitcoinica Terms of Service that I agreed to.

Can we please get an update with some real factual data? The last one was made half a month ago. And so far all we know is that ~5% of the smaller accounts got 50% of their BTC balance back and 0% of their USD balance.

By now you guys should have a concrete plan containing WHO/WHAT/WHEN/WHERE/WHY/HOW. Please communicate it to your customers. Update the individual claim pages with verification status and expected payout dates and percentages. If the strategy is to solve the problem by dragging this out hoping customers will forget and go away then you are mistaken.

I was one of Bitcoinica's largest customers. I have extended you my continued patience and trust to sort this out. Now after 50+ days of inaction you have degraded me to practically having to beg for my *own* money back. Well done. Top notch customer service indeed.  

Oh, and Tihan - Can you please nullify the NDA you have with the Bitcoin Consultancy guys? We need to move forward beyond words and empty promises. We need meaningful action & full transparency. It is clear that Bitcoinica LP was (and still is) completely dysfunctional. This is not how you run a professional operation.

49 days later... still looking at a big fat 0

I felt like a fool for trusting Bitcoinica with my money & I still feel like a fool for trusting Bitcoinica to refund my money.

I am not a small customer (5 digit USD currency account, 4 digit BTC currency account). I kept my own records. And most of it should be really easy to verify. For example I wired 10K USD to their CORE CREDIT bank account in NZ that cleared on May 09, 2012. No positions. Why do I have to put up with all this 'soon' nonsense when Patrick, Donald and Zhou have confirmed my claim is accurate weeks ago?

Yup, just received that email 10 minutes ago. Thanks for the heads-up! :)

It could be either from the MtGox db, or the perhaps Bitcoinica db that was recently compromised?

If you received it in your gmail account, please report this email as phishing (more > report phishing).

I don't think customers that know for a fact that their claim is correct will accept this, nor should they.

Sounds to me that there will have to be an 'Appeals' process in the near future if this will be the case.

Ah, so verified accounts with large balances need to be verified verified?

I have sent in all my wire transfer IDs, MtGox claimcode IDs, BTC transfer IDs, Bitcointalk ID, Emails, AML documentation, Screenshots, etc. I had no positions. Anything else you need?


Fine, but it basically sounds like you are sending your largest customers to the back of the line. Even in the face of overwhelming proof from their side.

If you can guarantee that Bitcoinica is able to meet *all* valid claim requests in full (no matter the size) I can deal with that. I'm not asking for the interest I've been missing out on for the last 6 weeks, just my balance back as it was on May 11. At least provide customers with an approximate date on which you expect payments to be made.

Note: I'm not angry at genjix in particular (I think he is doing a great job) but at Bitcoinica in general and the way they have been handling this situation.

On June 10 I got a message stating:


However I have not seen a single cent returned to me. Nor have I received any response to my more recent claim update request. I am getting really tired of this waiting game.

Ah, that actually makes sense. I did not consider that. Thanks!

Why is Bitcoinica not working closer together with other services that have been used to deposit or withdraw funds (e.g. MtGox) as part of the claims validation process?

Yesterday I asked MtGox if they were approached by Bitcoinica regarding verification of MtGox claimcodes on Bitcoinica, but apparently this is not the case:


I guess many customers have sent in their MtGox codes that they claim have been used to fund their Bitcoinica account. Wouldn't it make sense to run those by MtGox to confirm they have actually been redeemed with Bitcoinica and not some other service?