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6801  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 08:26:32 PM
Excellent, now we're getting somewhere!

The contract .otc files are a mechanism of the software, they are provided so the software will process our tokens, and can to an extent, at least to the operator of the server (me in this case) provide some sense of assurance that the server/software isn't cheating me / my users.

The contracts are signed by "nyms" which presumably correspond in the Galactic Milieu to clerks located in some office in the city MI5ius on the planet known as M5.

-MarkM-
6802  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 08:07:29 PM
Anyone who has your private key, sure.
Ahha, so why do you think your private key should be of any value to me? Because you would attach some "anonymous" reputation to it, right?

There is an old movie that was starting like that: "This is the City of London where reputations are made and... sold". So, what would be the guarantee that you will not "sell" your reputation when I least expect it, say by printing tokens that are not backed by actual assets?

Not my problem... I am not anonymous.

What guarantee does anyone have that you will not sell your non-anonymous reputation? Isn't that what "lamplighting" and related branches of "tradecraft" are all about? Did I get the term right? its been a while since I read John Le Carre and similar genre novels...)

-MarkM-
6803  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: On the Solidcoin Economic Changes on: January 27, 2012, 07:57:54 PM
There's another thing I forgot. Now that block rewards will be 0.05-0.07 sc, it will take about a million years before any one person can get a million SC to become a trusted node. Who saw that coming?

What, SC aren't available for sale on exchanges? How many Martian BotCoins would a million SC cost, anyway? Some puny amount, presumably? Of course one could expect the cost in DeVCoins to be a thousand times higher or so, but hey, whats a few trailing zeros among developers?

-MarkM-
6804  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 07:40:36 PM
Nothing. You're screwed like a "my bitcoin" customer.
But you accepted that risk in the first place.
Interesting. Why should I accept this risk in the first place? Being anonymous your reputation is zero because anyone can speak on your behalf claiming they are you!

Anyone who has your private key, sure. Who do you give that "power of spokesperson" to?

-MarkM-
6805  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 07:37:31 PM
I think your OT server is just a Martian proxy.

As to that, I am not permitted to say. However the MI-2 (Martian Intelligence Initiative) software that some claim i2p (invisible internet project) is a primitive low-tech imitation of seems to access .m5 websites just fine, which i2p doesn't. Whether this is due to the use of transwarp conduits, slipstream technology, or simple pedestrian subspace communications I suppose we'd have to ask 'Q'...

-MarkM-
6806  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / DeVCorp: DeVCoin Development "corp" on: January 27, 2012, 06:58:46 PM
First, please note that whether or not the term "Corp" indicates, on the planet known as M5, some specific form of legally incorporated corporation, it can also be a more generic term; it might help to think "Marine Corp" rather than "IBM Corp" although I suppose the Marines too are some kind of legally designated body or institution. One can also though refer to a chain gang of men working on roadworks as a corp or corps or men, can one not? (Maybe it is a confusion between corp and corps? Hmm...)

Whatever, the point here is not to jump to the conclusion that DeVCorp is some kind of limited or unlimited company or corporation officially "incorporated" here on "the planet known as Earth"; currently it is not, and whether it ever shall be is unknown and possibly not even considered important or relevant by the Martian authorities of the planet known as M5.

It is an asset issued on the Digitalis Open Transactions Server.

To that end, I thought it might be a good idea to post the proposed contract insofar as I have it so far for feedback rather than import it to the server willy-nilly while it possibly needs more work. It is intended to be a DeVCoin based operation among the aims of which will be to uphold and if possible increase the value of DeVCoins and, of course, to increase its own worth as measured in DeVCoins in order to be able to offer hopefully higher and higher buyback prices, in DeVCoins, for its stock:

Code:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<digitalAssetContract version="1.0">

<entity shortname="DeVCorp"
longname="DevCorp stock"
email="markmetson@sourceforge.net"/>

<issue company="DeVCorp"
email="DeVCorp@MI5ius.M5"
contractUrl="http://contracts.MI5ius.M5/DeVCorp.contract"
type="currency"/>

<currency name="DeVCorp" tla="sDVC" symbol="sDVC"
type="decimal" factor="1" decimal_power="0" fraction=""/>

<!-- CONDITIONS -->

<condition name="backing">
  DeVCorp stock is backed by the assets, activities,
  bylaws, goodwill etcetera of the actual Corp, which is
  registered as a limited liability company by the
  administration of and under the laws of the Martians
  of the planet known as M5. Its offices on that planet
  are located in the city known as MI5ius.
</condition>

<condition name="audit">
  DeVCorp stock is primarily secured by the assets of
  the Corp and, where the Corp operates legally under
  local laws of various civilisations, of course by such
  provisions as local civilisations might have regarding
  ownership of property, defense of property and so on.
  Where what passes for or pretends to be local
  civilisation fails to provide such protections, DeVCorp
  take such measures itself as it deems prudent under the
  prevailing conditions and circumstances.
</condition>

<condition name="purchase">
  In order to obtain DeVCorp stock you must utilise an
  Open Transactions server supporting the use of said
  asset.
</condition>

<condition name="redemption">
  Redemption implies failure of the Corp, inasmuch as
  stock is not normally considered a redeemable asset
  but, rather, a tradeable asset. Redemption in the
  event of the failure of the Corp would presumably be
  administrated by the bankruptcy departments of the
  regions in which the Corp still has any assets at
  the time of the failure / bankruptcy.
</condition>

<condition name="rate">
  It is not yet contemplated that this will be
  dividend-paying stock, thus no rate of payment,
  calculation or release of dividends applies.
</condition>

<condition name="buyback">
  The Issuer reserves the right to buy back all
  outstanding stock, thereby terminating the use of
  this instrument.

  Furthermore it is contemplated that buyback offers
  be one of the mechanisms by means of which the
  Corp attempts to uphold and increase the value of
  its stock.

  Thus instead of issuing dividends, the Corp is
  expected to increase the amount of value it
  offers per unit of stock to buy back units of its
  stock.

  The Corp should, ideally, have some internal
  notion of the liquidation value of its assets
  and thus in principle be capable of computing
  a per unit of stock liquidation value below
  which price its stock ought in theory to be a
  bargain and thus at which it should try to buy
  up as much of its stock as it can obtain at or
  near such a value-floor.

  Furthermore it should be customary for the Corp
  to use bots or periodic scripts to keep floor-
  value offers in effect on any servers where this
  contract is in effect, to some extent that does
  not threaten the survival and prospering of the
  Corp by expending assets on buying its own stock
  cheap that would better be invested in some
  other bargain or opportunity that might also
  be available to it.
</condition>

<condition name="liability">
  The Corp is not liable for any damages use of
  this contract with your software or on your
  computing equipment might cause, nor for any
  loss or inconvenience you might experience due
  to the performance of stock markets, trading
  platforms, brokers, or acts of man woman child
  god or natural force(s) or events. In any event
  liability is limited to the terms and conditions
  specified in this contract.
</condition>

<condition name="mint">
  Float - the total quantity of DeVCorp stock
  outstanding - is created by a Mint account,
  specially set by the Operator.

  Disbursements from the Mint account are to be made
  on receipt of duly signed and public authorization
  from MI5ius.  All disbursements from the Mint
  account are to be made to the single Currency
  Comptroller account identified by the authorization.

  From time to time, the Currency Comptroller may
  direct the Currency Manager to return DeVCorp stock
  to the Mint for the express purpose of reducing the
  float. Such directions should be ignored; stock,
  once issued, remains in existence until and unless
  the entire issue is disolved, which itself is also
  not contemplated.

  This issue of stock consists of 1,000,000 (One
  Million) individual integer units of stock, no
  more and no less. Any not in the possession of an
  entity other than the Corp are implicitly and
  explicitly in the possession of the Corp.
</condition>

<condition name="privacy">
  The purchase and trading of DeVCorp stock normally
  are done on the basis of strong privacy. By
  purchasing or trading this stock you agree that
  your purchase, trading, use, ownership, possession
  and material interest in this stock are governed by
  the laws and customs of the city of MI5ius on the
  planet known as M5 and that such laws and customs
  overrule any local laws or customs any civilisation,
  purported civilisation, government, barbarian horde,
  gang of thieves, outlaws, bandits, lawyers,
  politicians, pirates, thugs, muggers, cutthroats,
  militia, military, police, babysitter, parent,
  nanny or other entity might pretend, claim, or
  promulgate.
</condition>

<!-- KEYS -->

<key name="contract">
- -----BEGIN CERTIFICATE-----
***CERTIFICATE OF ISSUING NYM WILL GO HERE***
- -----END CERTIFICATE-----
</key>

</digitalAssetContract>

-MarkM-
6807  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 06:37:55 PM
I am not an OT server, my OT server is a software application I run on a hardware platform.

I don't really care about its reputation so much as my own. I am not, however convinced that having it rip people off, especially if the proceeds of its doing so accrue to me, would be without effect upon my own reputation.

Whether my server is disposable or not, I am not inclined to regard myself nor my own reputation as disposable.

As to how you defend your interest if "anonymous guy, possibly Martian, who styles him her or its self as some kind of currency or corp" does not honour their contract, well, I put it to you that it might well be because of such concerns that the British and the Canadians chose to ally themselves with the Martians rather than, for example, declare war upon them.

You are free to go to war against the Martians and/or their allies (such as, but not limited to, the British, Canadians, and, if the Martian stories about where their blockchain technology really came from are true, even the Hackers), using the full resources of whatever nation or nations you control within the Galactic Milieu, or to petition those who do rule such nations as characters of yours within the milieu are citizens of to extend sanctions or go to war. It is in the nature of the game that escalation of hostility can and sometimes probably has led to war. Ce la jeux.

-MarkM-
6808  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 05:42:07 PM
There is no way to keep minters anonymous. Minters have to issue digital assets and sign contracts where those digital assets are backed by physical assets. Reputation and anonymity are two words that don't go well together. Nobody will trust anonymous minter.

I am not currently inclined to allow others to mint (to issue tokens) on my server, as my reputation would be besmirched should some minter turn out to be a scammer or somesuch. The server allows that feature to be disabled for all "nyms" other than a special over-ride nym (basically the "server-owner nym") to whom none of the configurable restrictions apply. Thus I keep issuing turned off until I need to create an issuer account then plug in for a moment the nym that is to do the issuing, create the issue account, then put back the server-owner nym. This leaves no window during which arbitrary nyms could create an issuing account.

I figure it would make more sense to use "market makers" that to allow others to be "issuers". For example if you wanted me to run a digital gold token for you, I would want you to deposit with me the gold to back them with then go about your business of selling, buying and trading the tokens, hopefully seldom or never to need the actual gold to get bailed back out of whatever vault service I end up storing it in.

-MarkM-
6809  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 27, 2012, 05:26:04 PM
I have added an edit to the bottom of my previous post... So the "this" referred to has been revised in part in effect...

-MarkM-
6810  Economy / Speculation / Re: I can't believe the margin traders haven't liquidated. on: January 27, 2012, 04:17:09 PM
Grin



lol bitcoinica gamblers

This image is telling people to buy high and sell low?!?!?

-MarkM-
6811  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Feds kill Megaupload... are you buying Namecoins yet? on: January 27, 2012, 03:13:49 PM
With a namecoin lite client, the server could direct you to a phishing site (which a public DNS can do anyways) but your client would trust the fake ssl certificate. That's a deal breaker for me.  Most users of namecoin probably won't even have any coins so having their balances protected isn't really helpful.

I'm not sure of a good solution for a namecoin lite client.

I don't follow this. If the legitimacy of the certificate is somehow depending on how/where you look up the name, maybe whatever the problem is that you are perceiving could be fixed by putting a hash of a self-signed certificate into the namecoin blockchain or something?

I do not follow though how the way you go about looking up the name has anything to do with whether the cetificate presented at the IP address or i2p destination or .onion address or whatever you end up at is going to be thought by your browser to be a legitimate certificate.

-MarkM-
6812  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Namecoin into i2p integration on: January 27, 2012, 03:02:27 PM
I have knotwork.bit, I also have knotwork.i2p, knotwork.com and knotwork.net

Do I have to tell namecoin just one destination, or can I tell it about an i2p way to get there, a .onion way to get there, a .com way and a .net way and so on?

-MarkM-
6813  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 01:18:39 PM
It might not only be about the minter.

Some jurisdictions might hold the server / server-operator responsible even if all they do is provide accounting of balances for abstract tokens they have no knowledge of the value or lack of value of in whatever markets people might seek value in such tokens at.

You can go on to suggest the server also be cloaked behind some "anonymity network" but in all seriousness I am not very confident that "MI-5/MI-6" and/or FBI/CIA could not track down such a server if they actually were given a mandate/order to do so.

(This is actually part of why the Martians are implicated; the take-away concept of that is that this is a military intelligence matter not some stupid civil law crap. Martian as in Martial. MI5ius as in MI-5.)

-MarkM- (A Brit, residing in Canada.)
6814  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 27, 2012, 01:11:58 PM
I think I might be with Luke on this insofar as BIP 16, but not sure yet about BIP 17.

I realise we are stuck with an already-existing blockchain.

But there seems to be a difference of opinion on whether in an ideal world an ideal blockchain would use scripts or simply an enumerated list of "special cases" aka "use cases".

I seem to recall Luke having implied somewhere that if we are going with a special case (which Gavin's approach seems to be), instead of with a generic scripting language (as Satoshi envisioned and implemented) we should do so for real, committing to moving to a future in which there will be no generic scripting, simply a list of special cases aka use cases. I seem to recall Luke also complaining that Gavin was refusing to make such a commitment, seeming to want to just hack a special case on top of the existing script language leaving us with a bastardised combination that is neither cleanly a scripting language nor cleanly an enumeration/list of special cases.

Evidently Satoshi was not scared that his scripting language would turn out to be full of ghastly exploits.

Was it?

Were the disabled scripting terms disabled due to actual exploits having been seen or simply because others were not as confident as Satoshi that the specific capabilities Satoshi intended were safe?

What does a general scripting language buy us, really? Flexibility, maybe? Couldn't simply adding yet another special case each time a use case is found that existing enumerated cases cannot handle equally well allow flexibility, while also providing assurance that only flexes shown to be safe can happen due to each case having to be explicitly included by the devs instead of brilliantly discovered as already possible by, potentially, an attacker?

Regardless of whether it is too late for bitcoin itself to make an informed and foresightful choice of using a scripting language versus using enumerated/special cases, I would like to know which would actually be better if only for cases such as "Yet Another AltCoin".

-MarkM-

EDIT: Apparently there *were* some ghastly exploits discovered in Satoshi's script language, so much so that he himself changed it to avoid them; furthermore apparently BIP 17 might actually be undoing one of those changes/fixes...
6815  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Bitcoin BIP 16 /P2SH/ is bad, your action is needed! on: January 27, 2012, 11:56:07 AM
If scripting is mostly disabled anyway except for a few special cases, and using a special case is "the way to go" for this feature, then maybe in an ideal coin (think altcoins here if inability to change bitcoin itself this deeply this late in the game) should from the outset just have special cases and no actual scripting?

Do we know yet what scripting actually buys us? If so, maybe each use-case can be provided as a special case and scripting per se never even be contemplated let alone actually implemented or deployed?

One might argue that scripting allows future use-cases we have not yet thought of, but special cases could too, the new thing could simply be added to the list of special cases. Our 'opcodes" could simply be enumerators, enumerating the "special cases" aka "use cases"?

Bastardising our scripting language by hacking "special cases" over it or subverting our list of allowed cases aka use cases aka special cases by having a "scripting language" both sound bad, shouldn't we either go with a script language or go with an enumerated list of special aka use cases, one or the other, instead of a hack job that is neither cleanly but instead has possibly the downsides of both?

-MarkM-
6816  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 27, 2012, 11:28:02 AM
Wow did that ever go off course, WTF was I going to respond to after all that?

Yes, blaming the children for what some priests sometimes for some time get away with is not quite right.

But does it mean the Pope is a pederast? I'm not sure that follows.

Lets go back to basics. Decentralisation. If I want to decentralise, should I listen to the chap who hangs out with the C.I.A. or the raving religious nutbar who actually and possibly unfortunately can be amazingly on point when its not a question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or some other theological debate?

I think maybe I need to hear/read again Luke's argument(s) against BIP16 as it seems to me that if Gavin's arguments against BIP 17 were as cogent as he seems to think, Luke would have recognised that fact by now. It is not, afterall, a religious matter. (Is it?)

Presumably Luke has heard all Gavin's arguments, yet they have not convinced him. That worries me, as I have not yet found Luke to be a nutbar in such fields and dismissing people's expert opinions on account of their extra-curricular nutbarism is not something we nutbars particularly approve of.

-MarkM-
6817  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 10:15:51 AM
This is really pathetic, maybe kids should be warned that games are serious business
Mark, you have to obey the laws and financial regulations or you have to be ready to prove in the court of law that what you're offering is not a financial service. It is simple as that.

I'm ready to discuss how to change OT so that it does not resemble financial service but a game.

Yes, please.

Mark Twain's generation had marbles, some other generation had baseball cards, another had pokemon and "Magic, the Gathering" cards, now we have blockchains. Seems pretty simple, every generation has its plaything that later might become a valuable antique or collectable... Its actually pretty much a tradition, a part of {|western} culture...

-MarkM-
6818  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Theoretical cryptocurrency that globally verifies so fast it can stream audio on: January 27, 2012, 10:02:07 AM
Seems overly complicated...
What is the point if this system?
+1

What, you don't want to trade three bars of streamed "Let It Be" for any three bars of streamed "Brandenburg Concertos"? But how can you even tell whether that is a good deal or a bad deal without such a system?!?!

-MarkM-
6819  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Open Transactions Server: Asset/Bond/Commodity/Cryptocoin/Deed/Share/Stock Exch. on: January 27, 2012, 09:57:17 AM
I hope you warn children in your area to avoid playing Monopoly, and in particular if they cannot avoid playing it to at least not get stuck with the position of banker. How long would they get in juvie for doing something like that in your jurisdiction?

Seriously its hard to plan a good game these days, ouch I found a magic sword, someone sold one like that on e-bay, how much tax am I liable for just for having had this one fall into my possession?

Okay maybe I need some "market makers" who will take people's monopoly, totopoly, mine-a-million or any other kind of money in return for my server's tokens, and of "redeeming" my tokens with whatever kind of monopoly totopoly, mine-a-million or any other kind of money when people want to take their remaining not-lost-to-other-players virtual collectable trading cards / tokens and go home.

Isn't the whole point of those collectable trading cards people use to play magic gatherings and pokemon and so on that they are someday valuables like some other generation's baseball cards but meanwhile used in games in which winners keep the cards of losers? How do such games get around all this crap? Or does the small print actually prohibit trading such trading cards?

Maybe I need smallprint saying "do not engage in trading any of our tokens that represent collectable blockchain transactions that happen to be legally classified as 'real money' in your jurisdiction"?

Heck what about marbles? Like collectable trading cards they too are designed to be won from other players and yet someday maybe not even by later generations be regarded as valuables? Is playing marbles also not allowed?

Is World of Warcraft a financial service? Dungeons and Dragons Online? Second Life? EVE online? Etc?

Are the big game companies now ganging up like the banks to try to create a monopoly on their lucrative business model by having it regulated?

This is really pathetic, maybe kids should be warned that games are serious business, not for minors to contemplate participating in, too dangerous to get involved in, they should just say no to playtime...

-MarkM-
6820  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched! on: January 27, 2012, 01:29:13 AM
The Digitalis Open Transactions Server now supports LiTeCoin.

Thus LiTeCoin tokens (digiLiTeCoins aka dLTC) can now be traded there, exchanged for any of the other supported assets, used as the currency of choice for stocks and shares to be traded there and so on. That is, it can serve as a LiTeCoin stock-exchange as well as a LiTeCoin currency-exchange.

Currently though none of the companies being considered for stocks/shares to be traded on the exchange happen to be LiTeCoin based, but who knows, maybe that will change...

-MarkM-
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