No, the server seed has to be a secret, and different for every hand. If they used the same one twice, you could use the same client seed both times and get the same shuffle twice, meaning one you won a hand you could win it over and over again.

We need to get "... that Just-Dice is rigged" as the top result! 

This "epic" guy has been spamming the Just-Dice and Doge-Dice threads, as well as the support system for months now.

I've tried getting to the bottom of his issues, but it's impossible to get any sense out of him.  He has an irrational belief that the site is rigged against him because he had a bad run of losses.  I've tried explaining how the site works, that it's provably fair, etc. but he won't listen.  Most recently his argument against provably fairness was "quantum mechanics".

So I've given up and ignored him both here and on the ticket system.

In the unlikely event that he ever writes anything worth reading would someone who doesn't have him ignored (or was I the last one still seeing his crap?) please quote it for me so I see it.  Thanks.

Troll harder.

I don't know the answer to your question, but you might be interested to know that the term is Turing complete, named after Alan Turing.

And now, without him doing anything, it's 231,355,233 DOGE.  Up roughly 0.1% in a few hours.

It's just a shame the price of DOGE went down by more than 0.1% in the same period, but you can't have everything!

There's no maximum.  The biggest investment at the moment is 231,043,429 DOGE.  Recently investments have been doing very well, averaging about 0.2% growth per day - but of course sometimes players win too, and so investors lose.

I'd count that as a "substantial post" for sure! 

After all my attempts to explain how the site works, this is the best you can do?

No, I am not saying that it is hard programmed to fuck you.

It doesn't know about our care about you. It's a sequence of pseudorandom numbers you're paying against. The numbers have no desire to fuck or be fucked, they are simply the result of running a particular published algorithm over and over.

If you monitor someone adding 2 and 2, does it change the outcome?

In the same way, the dice rolls are entirely deterministic and not subject to quantum effects.

Thanks for the link.  I hadn't see it before, and you're right, it is interesting.

I hadn't realised this:


And so "H H H H H H" is thought to be "less random" than "H H T H T T", even though both have the same chance of happening at random.

Are you referring to this?



I expect so.  Can you understand the difference between HOW the rolls are generated and WHEN they are displayed?  The delays described above simply DELAY the roll, they don't AFFECT it.  Also, they only affect tiny bets.  People typically don't care about such small bets.  The bets you pasted were all above the threshold for delays.


I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.  Do you have a friend who can help you with your posts?

If you're saying that big bets lose more often than small bets, that's just wrong.  The rolled numbers are predetermined as soon as you pick your client seed, before you pick your chance or stake.  No amount of monitoring or automation is able to change the predetermined sequence of rolls.

I don't have anyone monitoring the site most of the time.  I leave myself logged in most of the time, but don't watch it.  The server keeps logs of all bets though, so you can call that monitoring if you like.

The seeds are stored on the server, and are invisible to the user.  I can change them at any point, whatever the javascript on the client side says, and just not tell the client about the changes.

The only way to detect such a change is to verify the rolls that were made.  This is the case for every provably fair site, of course.  If you don't take some small steps to verify the fairness, the site is able to cheat you.

How it works is documented on the 'Fair?' tab.  All rolls are predetermined based on a pair of seeds, one of which the server provides and one of which the user provides.

Nice words though.  I particularly liked the bit where you said "it equates the higher bracket into the % ratio".  That nearly sounded like it meant something!


Congratulations!  Except there's no time element in the roll generation.

Oh, I see.

That's necessary because the user can change his seeds at any time.  When the user changes his seeds, I want the 'Fair?' tab to reflect that change on all his devices / browsers / tabs.  You see he may click 'randomize' on his phone, while having the site also open on his laptop.  I want to be able to update the 'Fair?' tab on the laptop even though he doesn't have the randomize dialog open there.

I didn't address that because I don't think people are very interested, but you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

The field that holds the seeds is created on the fly when you click 'randomize'.  I can't change the value in a field that doesn't exist.  If the "randomize" dialog isn't visible, the seed field doesn't exist.

Like you say, there's no way you can be sure a site isn't cheating you if you're not prepared to do a little work to verify things to your own satisfaction.

I designed JD to make it as easy as possible to verify your rolls.  I saw some sites which change the server seed every roll (bitzino, primedice), which makes it really quite tedious to verify things as a matter of course.  I saw other sites which change the server seed every 24 hours (coinroll, satoshidice) which means you have to wait up to 24 hours to verify your rolls.  So I made it that the player gets to decide when to change their seed, and only the player.  So if you want to make 100 rolls and then verify them, you can, simply by noting the hash before you start, making sure it's the same after you play, and using the verifier script.

If a player doesn't care enough to verify his rolls, then I can cheat him.  I don't know in advance which ones are going to check and which aren't.  I can't afford to get caught cheating even once, so I just don't cheat anyone.  Presumably the ones who don't verify their rolls either trust the site not to be cheating, or see gambling as just a bit of fun and expect to lose anyway so it doesn't really matter.  But I'm just guessing.

This isn't the right way to fix the problem.

What you need to do is to make sure that users aren't allowed to do two balance-affecting things at the same time.  Otherwise they'll just find another way to cheat you.

Make "check balance" and "reduce balance" atomic.

Checking for negative balances isn't the answer.  Suppose I have 30 BTC and try to very quickly withdraw 10 BTC twice.  Both "check balance" calls see I have 30 BTC, which is enough.  Both "reduce balance" calls set my balance to 20 BTC.  Then you send me two separate 10 BTC payments, my balance has never been negative, and I'm 10 BTC up on the deal.  You need to make sure that the "check balance" and "update balance" happen without anything else relating to that user happen between them.

Very good point. It If I always put a streak of 10 high rolls and another streak of 10 low rolls in the first 100, you could spot them quite easily and take advantage.

The best sequence of rolls from the site's point of view is a random sequence, because then the player can't work out the pattern and use it to his advantage.

He did address this earlier.  Lots of players play martingale, so as long as I make sure there's a long streak of very high rolls and a long streak of very low numbers early on, most players will bust early (so long as they stick to all hi, or all lo).

I you think I'm searching for seed pairs with those properties, make sure you click 'randomize', make a note of the server seed hash, and set your own client seed before you play.

If I was doing something despicable like that, I expect the site's profit would be a little higher than the current 0.28% of turnover however.