So wouldn't it be fairer if, instead of this random seed, you use the current block hash?
No, the server seed has to be a secret, and different for every hand. If they used the same one twice, you could use the same client seed both times and get the same shuffle twice, meaning one you won a hand you could win it over and over again.
|
|
|
As an interesting experiment, google "quantum mechanics proves" and look at some of the autocompletes and links.
We need to get "... that Just-Dice is rigged" as the top result! ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
|
|
|
This "epic" guy has been spamming the Just-Dice and Doge-Dice threads, as well as the support system for months now. I've tried getting to the bottom of his issues, but it's impossible to get any sense out of him. He has an irrational belief that the site is rigged against him because he had a bad run of losses. I've tried explaining how the site works, that it's provably fair, etc. but he won't listen. Most recently his argument against provably fairness was "quantum mechanics". So I've given up and ignored him both here and on the ticket system. In the unlikely event that he ever writes anything worth reading would someone who doesn't have him ignored (or was I the last one still seeing his crap?) please quote it for me so I see it. Thanks. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMQv1IsF.png&t=665&c=GOGSt5HoEioVtA)
|
|
|
[nothing of any value]
[nothing of any value]
[nothing of any value]
[nothing of any value]
[nothing of any value]
Troll harder.
|
|
|
so it will be "turning complete" as well I don't know the answer to your question, but you might be interested to know that the term is Turing complete, named after Alan Turing.
|
|
|
The biggest investment at the moment is 231,043,429 DOGE.
And now, without him doing anything, it's 231,355,233 DOGE. Up roughly 0.1% in a few hours. It's just a shame the price of DOGE went down by more than 0.1% in the same period, but you can't have everything!
|
|
|
hey i like it
I'd count that as a "substantial post" for sure! ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Lmao So what is the maximum I can invest? There's no maximum. The biggest investment at the moment is 231,043,429 DOGE. Recently investments have been doing very well, averaging about 0.2% growth per day - but of course sometimes players win too, and so investors lose.
|
|
|
hey i like it
I'd count that as a "substantial post" for sure! ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
|
|
|
So you are saying it's purely hard programmed to fuck you?
After all my attempts to explain how the site works, this is the best you can do? No, I am not saying that it is hard programmed to fuck you. It doesn't know about our care about you. It's a sequence of pseudorandom numbers you're paying against. The numbers have no desire to fuck or be fucked, they are simply the result of running a particular published algorithm over and over.
|
|
|
monitoring /observing changes the outcome ..you have heard of quantum dynamics right?
If you monitor someone adding 2 and 2, does it change the outcome? In the same way, the dice rolls are entirely deterministic and not subject to quantum effects.
|
|
|
I found this very interesting, I'd recommend it for anyone who'd like to read about this. Thanks for the link. I hadn't see it before, and you're right, it is interesting. I hadn't realised this: Another reason for errors in our understanding of randomness may be confusion between the way the word random is used in everyday speech and the way it is used in statistics and mathematics. According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, the most common meaning of the adjective random is “lacking a definite plan, purpose, or pattern.” It also lists “haphazard” as a synonym And so "H H H H H H" is thought to be "less random" than "H H T H T T", even though both have the same chance of happening at random.
|
|
|
there's no time element in the roll generation.
^you fucking liar it says it right on your site! Are you referring to this? ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzGnidYV.png&t=665&c=nMznDK9-kAbiRw) I expect so. Can you understand the difference between HOW the rolls are generated and WHEN they are displayed? The delays described above simply DELAY the roll, they don't AFFECT it. Also, they only affect tiny bets. People typically don't care about such small bets. The bets you pasted were all above the threshold for delays. >>yes I have found that it demonstrates how stated % is not exclusive to all bet placed but rather BET SIZE ,so perhaps in in your mind it's somehow justified? How this is achieved by monitoring or automation or what combination of these i'm not entirely clear. You do have someone monitoring the site at all times ...right?... GOTCHA!!! ;-) *just flip the "lose" switch? = odds will change
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here. Do you have a friend who can help you with your posts? If you're saying that big bets lose more often than small bets, that's just wrong. The rolled numbers are predetermined as soon as you pick your client seed, before you pick your chance or stake. No amount of monitoring or automation is able to change the predetermined sequence of rolls. I don't have anyone monitoring the site most of the time. I leave myself logged in most of the time, but don't watch it. The server keeps logs of all bets though, so you can call that monitoring if you like.
|
|
|
That is a fair use case, If the user has requested it on one screen they shouldn't be bothered by a fancybox pop up on the others that say the seeds has been changed. then you have no way to change the seeds during betting without the user knowing.
The seeds are stored on the server, and are invisible to the user. I can change them at any point, whatever the javascript on the client side says, and just not tell the client about the changes. The only way to detect such a change is to verify the rolls that were made. This is the case for every provably fair site, of course. If you don't take some small steps to verify the fairness, the site is able to cheat you.
|
|
|
it works off "fields" so if you try to beat the streak it equates the higher bracket into the % ratio
How it works is documented on the 'Fair?' tab. All rolls are predetermined based on a pair of seeds, one of which the server provides and one of which the user provides. Nice words though. I particularly liked the bit where you said "it equates the higher bracket into the % ratio". That nearly sounded like it meant something! i figured it out by reading about the time adjustments for different size bets..lol
Congratulations! Except there's no time element in the roll generation.
|
|
|
The code I refer to doesn't have anything to do with the randomize screen, I am saying you can replace the server and cliend seeds as well as the number of rolls on the fair tab any time you want with this code: socket.on("shash", function(data) { $("#shash").html(data) }); socket.on("seed", function(data) { $("#seed").html(data) }); ... socket.on("nonce", function(data) { $("#nonce").html(data) });
Oh, I see. That's necessary because the user can change his seeds at any time. When the user changes his seeds, I want the 'Fair?' tab to reflect that change on all his devices / browsers / tabs. You see he may click 'randomize' on his phone, while having the site also open on his laptop. I want to be able to update the 'Fair?' tab on the laptop even though he doesn't have the randomize dialog open there.
|
|
|
Don't forget the second point I made earlier that he can actually change the seeds anytime he wants during your betting, so he can figure out your pattern and then choose the corresponding client/seed hash, yes it would be more risky for him to do this incase someone actually wrote down their hashes, but really who does?
If he wanted he could remove his ability to change your seeds on the fly with a simple if statement, I have raised this with him and now the community, no one cares, then let it be.
I didn't address that because I don't think people are very interested, but you don't seem to know what you're talking about. The field that holds the seeds is created on the fly when you click 'randomize'. I can't change the value in a field that doesn't exist. If the "randomize" dialog isn't visible, the seed field doesn't exist.
|
|
|
yeah I never wrote it down, some people dont know how to do this hash or seed thing
Like you say, there's no way you can be sure a site isn't cheating you if you're not prepared to do a little work to verify things to your own satisfaction. I designed JD to make it as easy as possible to verify your rolls. I saw some sites which change the server seed every roll (bitzino, primedice), which makes it really quite tedious to verify things as a matter of course. I saw other sites which change the server seed every 24 hours (coinroll, satoshidice) which means you have to wait up to 24 hours to verify your rolls. So I made it that the player gets to decide when to change their seed, and only the player. So if you want to make 100 rolls and then verify them, you can, simply by noting the hash before you start, making sure it's the same after you play, and using the verifier script. If a player doesn't care enough to verify his rolls, then I can cheat him. I don't know in advance which ones are going to check and which aren't. I can't afford to get caught cheating even once, so I just don't cheat anyone. Presumably the ones who don't verify their rolls either trust the site not to be cheating, or see gambling as just a bit of fun and expect to lose anyway so it doesn't really matter. But I'm just guessing.
|
|
|
The next thing that will be done--before markets are unfrozen--is a daemon will be created that continually monitors for negative balances and freezes any account with a negative balance
This isn't the right way to fix the problem. What you need to do is to make sure that users aren't allowed to do two balance-affecting things at the same time. Otherwise they'll just find another way to cheat you. Make "check balance" and "reduce balance" atomic. Checking for negative balances isn't the answer. Suppose I have 30 BTC and try to very quickly withdraw 10 BTC twice. Both "check balance" calls see I have 30 BTC, which is enough. Both "reduce balance" calls set my balance to 20 BTC. Then you send me two separate 10 BTC payments, my balance has never been negative, and I'm 10 BTC up on the deal. You need to make sure that the "check balance" and "update balance" happen without anything else relating to that user happen between them.
|
|
|
Even if he could, cheating that way would not be very wise cause as soon as someone would find out the unfair pattern he could abuse it for his own profit.
Very good point. It If I always put a streak of 10 high rolls and another streak of 10 low rolls in the first 100, you could spot them quite easily and take advantage. The best sequence of rolls from the site's point of view is a random sequence, because then the player can't work out the pattern and use it to his advantage.
|
|
|
So what? Unless dooglus has psychic powers, he can't tell how you're going to bet. Are you betting high? Low? 49.5%? 20%? 10%? Martingale? Progressive strategy? Bet 0.1 but 1.0 every tenth bet? He doesn't know. Therefore he can't create a seed that will give you unlucky numbers for your particular betting strategy.
He did address this earlier. Lots of players play martingale, so as long as I make sure there's a long streak of very high rolls and a long streak of very low numbers early on, most players will bust early (so long as they stick to all hi, or all lo). I you think I'm searching for seed pairs with those properties, make sure you click 'randomize', make a note of the server seed hash, and set your own client seed before you play. If I was doing something despicable like that, I expect the site's profit would be a little higher than the current 0.28% of turnover however.
|
|
|
|