May I suggest roulette sounds? |
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IMHO cloudhashing is abusing the trust of its customers as they made no attempt to justify their charges. There is a group buy thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=137.0Search for DZ Miners. Their very worst deal stacks up way better than cloudhashing IMHO. |
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Around 2500 (on its way to 10k or more)
I agree with this on the basis that the US doesn't do a China or try to tax it to death. Why? See this: www.bitcoinpulse.com The growth rate implies a doubling of consumers within 6 months. If hoarding rises then btcs will have to increase in value. The Chinese will have to consider whether RMB or Btc is a better store of value. |
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If you see on exchanges such a low prices, it doesn't mean that everybody is going to sell at it. The most of whales are now only buying, not selling. I personally know people who hold over 10K btc and have never sold a single bit below $1000. They just don't care about Chinese, FUD and depressed speculators. They don't even look at charts. The same is about big-scale miners. I personally would be happy to see bitcoin at $300 but I'm sure if it ever happen, it will be a flash crash for a few seconds. P.S. thanks to proudhon's hilarious FUD post which helped to complete all my bids around $400  Fundamentals look good to me too: www.bitcoinpulse.com |
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I'm a bit confused about the RRP; in the ' Dashboard' there's a box that says: "The next RRP will take place on January 19th 2014 at a cost of $15.00/Gh." does this mean for every $15 (or Bitcoin equivalent) I get one additional Gh? And for what term; the duration of my existing contract? Till the next RRP? The next five minutes?  Just ask'n... Hoak, Yes. On January 19, you'll get 1 GH added for every $15 worth of Bitcoin you've allocated (at the price of Bitcoin that day). It will show up in your account as a separate one-year contract. So even if your current contract ends let's say in 6 months, the RRP would continue after that for one year. Michael $15 per ghs is extremely unlikely to ROI given current difficulty increases. How does cloud hashing plan to fix that? I have paid <$4 per ghs for black arrow and first batch neptunes and I worry about ROI due to difficulty increase. Selling at $15 per ghs is just rude IMHO. Hoak, The RRP is completely optional, and if you don't want to participate you don't have to. Currently the price per gigahash $15-$20 is competitive for a turnkey service mining bitcoin immediately etc. But if you feel you can get a better deal elsewhere, just set your RRP to 0%. Keep in mind that there are many companies offering a lower advertised price per gigahash, but it's basically for future timeframes and not "on the tap" like we have. But we want you to make the best decision for yourself and your situation, so please feel free to use RRP or not. Michael So how do you justify charging $80 per ghs for your "gold" contracts? And $60 per ghs for the platinum contracts? On tap or not, please explain how that will ROI? Thanks. |
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One of my friends is into bitcoins and other alternative coins and he is using this service. www.cryptodeposit.net He invested about 5 btc. 3 of them he already got back with some % in profit and he is now waiting january for next withdrawal. If you verify your indentity on cryptodeposit.net then you will get nice bonuses and stuff but my friend has not yet did that he is using normal account because he said that there is some sort of payment for verified account or something. And I checked on google and internet and I see that there are response from people about this service and its pretty nice, so anyway there is this referral system and my friend sent me it, i've invested now about 0.6 btc and in january I should be able to withdraw. you can also invest other coins like litecoin or feathercoin etc. And they have more services not only investments but some other as well..but am sharing this with u now since u are looking for something like this I suppose. btw account creation system reminds me of a way joining a golf club but it seems secured that way from spam and bots. Oh you didnt know this before? This is good service, as far as im concerned it is not a scam. Ive been using this for a while now, I have personally invested 0.5 Bitcoin , and so far so good. Btw response from users has been so good and I personally have verified real account, I recommend it. The membership fees you talking about are not actual fees. There is no membership fee for cryptodeposit.net , they have license for real account users which makes this whole service safer and spam/bot free. Now that Bitcoin price fell cryptodeposit is growing and it is possible for it to become something big in this Bitcoin community. Yeah this is something I was looking for and it looks pretty good. Applied for account today, how long need to wait for confirmation? Now you're just ignoring all the friendly wise advice... Hmmm. I wonder how this will turn out in the end? You do realise in Btc world, bernie madoff can't go to prison? |
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I'm a bit confused about the RRP; in the ' Dashboard' there's a box that says: "The next RRP will take place on January 19th 2014 at a cost of $15.00/Gh." does this mean for every $15 (or Bitcoin equivalent) I get one additional Gh? And for what term; the duration of my existing contract? Till the next RRP? The next five minutes? Just ask'n... Hoak, Yes. On January 19, you'll get 1 GH added for every $15 worth of Bitcoin you've allocated (at the price of Bitcoin that day). It will show up in your account as a separate one-year contract. So even if your current contract ends let's say in 6 months, the RRP would continue after that for one year. Michael $15 per ghs is extremely unlikely to ROI given current difficulty increases. How does cloud hashing plan to fix that? I have paid <$4 per ghs for black arrow and first batch neptunes and I worry about ROI due to difficulty increase. Selling at $15 per ghs is just rude IMHO. |
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IMHO:
The Winklevii are young and rich. Their reputation counts a lot to them because they still need it.
Even if they relinquished some btcs into the ETF, its not a big deal. It would be better than dumping on the market.
The etf is likely to bring net new money into the system. Therefore, btcs should rise in price. Why would anyone dump an asset that is rising in value?
Regulatory risks can't be ignored, therefore they could be doing this to recoup initial funds invested plus profits. The etf removes the binary outcome for the Winklevii. They make money either way but they make more if btcs go to $40k.
Please check Btc usage growth rates on bitcoinpulse to see for yourself that Btc adoption is expanding very rapidly. If you were the Winklevii, would you dump? I wouldn't. However, I would try to remove the binary outcome due to regulatory changes beyond my control.
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I see at least two possible outcomes (and there are many more I'm sure):
1. Cash transactions with BTC China directly in Shanghai, which means BTC China might have to setup a network of branches in the big cities, or do a deal with someone to setup branch networks.
2. Decentralised P2P or B2B exchanges being developed.
I cannot get my head around how a decentralised exchange would work - you still need to interact with fiat at some point. (And no, localbitcoins is not an exchange). The Ripple trust model just looks a shambles to me. Roughly (and I might be explaining something you already know): you'll have a third party escrow type service who sits as a mediator. The contract is done online. The fiat transaction is done via bank to bank wire at minimal cost. Evidence of transfer is provided to third party, who releases BTCs to party providing evidence. Yes, it will add to expense. But over time, reputations will be built. Kind of like a credit history. The oracle / escrow agent only can only block the bitcoin transaction (if it is a double public key transaction). They can't block the flow of fiat funds. So the escrow agent provides nil protection to the person sending the fiat. Unless I am missing something. Person sending fiat provides irrefutable evidence that fiat was transferred. Btc then gets released to them. There are issues if the fiat sent is fraudulent and gets clawed back. |
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Anor 4 @ 0.25
All up 8 @ 0.25
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So... where are we with the CCCB and the ATO?
I've been consulting with a well respected tax firm (who have also sought information from a variety of other sources) and at present they cannot offer me any solid answer on how the ATO think btc->fiat transactions will be viewed.
They recommend if I was to cash out any btc to hold $46% in a term deposit and wait until May the following year (deadline for accountant submitted tax returns) and hope that the ATO has a decision before then... if they go down he CGT route then only pay 23%.
Anyone else got anything more solid?
I have no further insight to add - but how did it work for people in previous years? I imagine that people sold decent amounts of Bitcoin last financial year, and maybe even the FY before that too. What if the ATO hasn't made any decision by mid 2014. Do you simply just put it down as CGT, or do you not declare anything as the ATO has not been able to provide advice on what Bitcoin is? Also, on a related topic, is it possible to move to New Zealand for a year, sell Bitcoins there (as they have no CGT), then move back here with your money? Being out of Australia for a year means you won't be an Australian for tax purposes. Treat as asset to be conservative unless you were trading. If trading, you must show it is a hobby and not systematic. If systematic then pay full taxes. IMHO, best not to spend btcs. |
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So... where are we with the CCCB and the ATO?
I've been consulting with a well respected tax firm (who have also sought information from a variety of other sources) and at present they cannot offer me any solid answer on how the ATO think btc->fiat transactions will be viewed.
They recommend if I was to cash out any btc to hold $46% in a term deposit and wait until May the following year (deadline for accountant submitted tax returns) and hope that the ATO has a decision before then... if they go down he CGT route then only pay 23%.
Anyone else got anything more solid?
I have no further insight to add - but how did it work for people in previous years? I imagine that people sold decent amounts of Bitcoin last financial year, and maybe even the FY before that too. What if the ATO hasn't made any decision by mid 2014. Do you simply just put it down as CGT, or do you not declare anything as the ATO has not been able to provide advice on what Bitcoin is? Also, on a related topic, is it possible to move to New Zealand for a year, sell Bitcoins there (as they have no CGT), then move back here with your money? Being out of Australia for a year means you won't be an Australian for tax purposes. Acid test is country of domicile. |
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I see at least two possible outcomes (and there are many more I'm sure):
1. Cash transactions with BTC China directly in Shanghai, which means BTC China might have to setup a network of branches in the big cities, or do a deal with someone to setup branch networks.
2. Decentralised P2P or B2B exchanges being developed.
I cannot get my head around how a decentralised exchange would work - you still need to interact with fiat at some point. (And no, localbitcoins is not an exchange). The Ripple trust model just looks a shambles to me. Roughly (and I might be explaining something you already know): you'll have a third party escrow type service who sits as a mediator. The contract is done online. The fiat transaction is done via bank to bank wire at minimal cost. Evidence of transfer is provided to third party, who releases BTCs to party providing evidence. Yes, it will add to expense. But over time, reputations will be built. Kind of like a credit history. |
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Sure but the rich Chinese in HK and Singapore dont need BTCC. They already have access to international markets. BTCC gives access to the middle class (dont get me wrong - there is no shortage of whales on there but I do wonder how many of the whales are actually Westerners in disguise).
This is a good point. But my point is that the money between China and these trading zones can be quite porous. But you're right, middle class access will be hammered, which is why I think BTCs in China will eventually trade at a premium relative to ROW. |
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My gut is, China is f*cking with everyone and purposely driving the price down so that day-traders and speculators get out, so that they can turn around and scoop up BTC for ridiculous low amounts and then drive the price back up.
You mean China exchange or China government ? Chinese Govt + Banks + Big Business. Don't trust the Chinese. They aren't stupid. They are great at deception and manipulation. The volatility over the past few days is certainly uncomfortable but I can't see that this is a trust issue. This is the Chinese government shutting down a massive loophole in its financial system. If that is the case I don't understand why they haven't outlawed it entirely? Or do you think that is still to come? Given that Btc china sits in the shanghai free trading zone, it should be protected as if it was an exchange in HK or Macau. Therefore, it cannot be made illegal else the free trading zone concept is dead. However, the Chinese government is absolutely shutting down all RMB flows out of china via btcs by banning third party processors and bank to bank transfers. I suspect in future, Chinese people wanting btcs must purchase it via cash deposits in HK, Macau and maybe the shanghai free trading zone. Plus person to person local btcs of course. Eventually, an Argentina scenario should emerge. Btcs in china should trade higher than ROW. Just not right now as there is still some selling pressure. Soon, withdrawals will be removed as well. If BTC China remains open, but has no withdrawals / deposits, will anybody trade on it? I see at least two possible outcomes (and there are many more I'm sure): 1. Cash transactions with BTC China directly in Shanghai, which means BTC China might have to setup a network of branches in the big cities, or do a deal with someone to setup branch networks. 2. Decentralised P2P or B2B exchanges being developed. |
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I see three green candles so in my book it looks like an uptrend is coming, hope it pulls through. I want to shout this again "TO DA MOOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"  Yeah, it may bounce a little higher....for now, but it will be temporary. China is clearly winding up any open dealing of Bitcoins. BTC China was the last time I checked responsible for 44% of the entire Bitcoin trade volume. There are still lots of Bitcoins in China and these people need to cash out. Nothing could be more clear regarding Bitcoins near term future and could well be remembered as a near death experience. "TO DA FKN BASEMENT!!!!!!!!" I honestly can't see why Btc china cannot restart in HK or Macau? Anybody want to chime in with some inside info? Because it doesn't help mainlanders. Hong Kong and Macau are basically foreign countries (you need a type of passport to visit them) and you cannot freely transfer fiat to them. Last I checked, gambling revenue in Macau was still rising. Also, I see plenty of rich Chinese hanging around HK and Singapore. |
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Shouldn't be long now before China BTC trades at a premium to the other exchanges. All the early speculators are either out or buying back in.
I believe people trying to shift RMBs out of China will be looking for BTCs within China. This should be the Argentina scenario replayed but on a bigger scale.
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is bullshit, unless you have any kind of evidence for it. Otherwise: "the rally from 15 to 260 and the subsequent crash in April were all just part of Bernanke's masterplan to destroy the BTC system from within" is a plausible scenario as well.
There are all kinds of things that go on in the world that I don't have evidence for....doesn't mean that they aint going on. If there is one axiom in finance that history has proven to be true, it is that: 'The Big Boys Always Win!' If Bitcoin is destined to become massive, do you think that the early mining geeks are going to be the ones who are controlling it? Not a fkn chance. If Bitcoin is destined to become massive, then it will be the Big Boys who control it. I don't know if you have noticed, but there is an economic war going on the world, where the US is trying to remain on top by crashing their hyperinflated economy down on top of all the other global economies. The Chinese know this, and currently greatly exposed to the US dollar, and are moving out of it wherever they can, hoarding every ounce of gold they can get their hands on (they will be loving the depressed state of the PMs market right now), and are setting up trades deals in other currencies whenever and wherever they can. Bitcoin is just another asset, with huge potential. Do you think they don't realise this? Whilst they may want to avoid allowing their citizens to use Bitcoin to undermime their financial system, don't you think that the Chinese would like to take control of Bitcoin? If Bitcoin is indeed destined to become huge, don't you think that any government wouldnt have an interest in having a large stake in Bitcoin? Perhaps the Chinese have been intentionally ramping and crashing Bitcoin, in order to quietly take control of the market? Perhaps, perhaps not. But the big-boys don't get to be and remain big boys by not being able to see and exploit what is coming and one thing is for sure, the Chinese government have the whole Bitcoin market hanging by a thread at the moment, and can make or break the Bitcoin with any announcement they happen to make towards it. The whole idea of 'governments and bankers hating Bitcoin' is over. The notion of Bitcoin being an anarchistic force punching holes into the financial establishment is officially dead, from the moment the Ben Bernanke and the Senate Committee stated that Bitcoin was a valuable financial product. This is plausible but in the context of a USD 8 Trillion economy versus the USD 10 Billion market cap of Btc, I think maybe it's a little too early to think about SAFE or SASAC involvement. More likely, some local govt official somewhere or a small bank might be dabbling. |
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I think only capital tax is concerned because bitcoin is just a commodity, an asset. What document should we keep for tax filing then?
Another question, Why do Bitcoin exchange business in Australia do not go global? is there anything that stops them?
Probably too expensive re: commissions and insufficient trade depth due to smaller population. |
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