The people that must go are those who don't understand money.

That means hype merchants like Blackoin people.

Well here we are in that exact scenario and I didn't join the dumpfest.

Wonder if IconicExpert is still holding his

Check Myriad.

That remark's a bit ironic from my point of view.

I got into Blackcoin because I'm a NXT holder and I saw BC as a kind of 'baby' NXT - i.e. NXT without the services.

I make my own evaluations on coins using a calculator - not by reading the hysteria on Bitcointalk. I'm not saying it works all the time - sometimes hype trumps the calculator. But as far as fundamentals go, NXT is not the same type of asset as BC and at least has a level of business viability that BC hasn't.

However successful Blackcoin is. It will not 'topple" Bitcoin.

Blackcoin is not even anywhere near the first rung of the ladder on challenging Bitcoin's dominance and reserve status in the cryptocurrency economy.

Plenty of "crypto's" have trod where BC is treading now and none of them have even made a dent so don't start getting delusions of grandeur. Just ask anyone who's ever tried to get an ETF for a 'crypto' passed through the regulatory authorities.

Great rise but lets keep our hair on.

Thanks, I might try that sometime  

ok, I'll leave you 2 it and stop annoying everybody.

Good luck with the coin

I helped BC to grow by buying it LoL. What else to you want potential investors to do ?

For all you know, once the dumps start half the fanatics posting on here will all have scurried and I'll still be here holding because I know what I bought. (From all the over obsessing about the price, thats what it looks like anyway).

I realise that a particular cryptocurrency can be an object of affection for many, but once you've been through a few of them they start to be less so. It also helps to know what the real basis for the valuation is.

I don't have a "mission" as you put it other than to determine what that basis is. In that regard, it's a matter of documented fact that no amount of over enthusiastic promotion and bluster about 'great communities', media exposure and "not going back" has anything other than an ambiguous effect on the price. The reason I might appear "on a mission" to some is because whenever I see that amount of bluster while the basis for the valuation remains unclear, alarm bells go off. I suspect that most people don't actually know what they're investing in, although some might.

If I'm investing in "hype" then fine. It might still go far but as long as I'm aware of it I can make a genuine assessment as to my own valuation. On the other hand if it's more than hype then equally, thats usefull to know. For example Peercoin has a genuinely thought out cryptoeconomic role as a 'backbone' mechanism for large financial transactions with appropriate transaction fees and associated properties to deter small transactions. (I'm not a holder). Darkcoin (potentially) has a trustless anonymous transmission feature which clearly gives it a role - even for holders of other currencies. NxT has a potentially self-sustaining business model in the form of network services which supply 3rd party asset holders.

The fact that holders of a coin "value" it in an affectionate sense is no substitute for such an economic role. There are plenty of POS coins out there that can substitute for Blackcoin. So at the moment I'm thinking that this coin's value is based on the multipool effect and some strong promotion. I'm not saying thats bad, I'm just saying it's *it*.


I think this is as open to interpretation as any impartial observer sees fit. I agree with your false analogy from the point of view of a Blackcoin holder. But if you were a Kruger or Ruby coin holder, who Coinwarz suggests are the current targets of the multipool, you'd probably go with the "Parasitic" angle.

Actually, I used that word in a very specific context which is that it adds value to the coin which originates outwith the coin's own crypto-economic properties (in contrast to the 3 examples I gave above). In fact it originates in other coins. In that respect it's appropriate - albeit the strategy is perfectly legitimate.

As I say, I don't mind holding and supporting the coin. I just want to be clear about what it is I am holding.

"it became apparent"  

Are you serious ? You're making accusations of market manipulation left right and centre on a public forum, without a grain of evidence and while being clueless as the the seller's real motives (not that they should concern anyone anyway if they've got the goods to sell), meanwhile you categorically admit to engaging in exactly the practice you're condemning ! It's already been pointed out to you that there is a genuine basis for the observed behaviour. It's called *profit taking*.

Apart from anything else, there's a 4:1 overall ask to bid ratio on BTER's market depth charts and a 1.5 to 1 on Mintpal's so clearly there's going to be some jostling around of the asks while people find the optimal level to take profits. It doesn't mean everything's going to crash. It's normal


I'm a BC holder trying to protect their investment. I've been in and out of this coin for weeks and happen to be in at this moment in time - no thanks to some of the koolaid drinking hysteria I read on here. Just because I don't go along with prevailing mood of the moment doesn't mean I don't have an interest. I've just done enough of these ventures to know that I'd rather get to the bottom of what I'm really invested in that kid myself I'm on an express train to my own private jet.

I don't mind seeing my investment go down if I know why I'm invested.

In fact I'd rather see it go down for genuine reasons such as profit taking than read reports of blatant price manipulation like the kind of stuff you seem to be getting up to. Doesn't matter what direction it's in.

IconicExpert

I don't know if you realise the sheer hypocrisy of some of the posts you're making on here but a few of them are quite hilarious....


...then in the same breath...


If anyone's in a position to complain about market manipulation and false walls (i.e. not false in the sense that your prepared to spend the money but false in the sense that it's objective is other than regular investment) you're probably the least qualified. In fact the things you're getting up to are far worse that what the seller is doing that you're so eager to vilify who is probably just a genuine customer making a genuine trade after holding for a while.

What do you think potential investors are going see when they come here ? A coin who's price is kept inflated by parasitic mining of other coins. Holders who are busy manipulating the order book and placing buy walls to try to arrest any genuine price drops that may actually result in other genuine investors being able to enter the market at a level they can afford.

Stop pissing about with the order book in fear and panic and let the price go to where it's going to go based on the genuine advantages the coin has to offer.

You'll do less damage that way and might surprise yourself at the same time.

The reason for that is that the seller is maximising their trade by pitching the order at the optimal liquidity level.

If it's a half decent exchange (not Cryptorush) the trading engine will automatically feed them the highest bids, even though they've placed their order at a lower level. If someone's cashing out a large amount that's the only way to do it because if you let a large sell order sit on the book at above the top bid, all you'll do is push the bids down out of reach and destroy all the liquidity that built up during your 'waiting time'.

All this behaviour is totally consistent with a whale cashing out.

By the way, that's also sometimes the reason why you see sellwalls being pulled as the price is rising. It isn't always because people want to "hold". They're getting ready for a cash out by encouraging the bid liquidity to accumulate enough to absorb the dump they're about to execute.

It's more likely to be a large holder waiting for sufficient liquidity to be available for them to cash out.

These alt coin markets are tiny. Look at the order book. It's all decimals of BTC that are on there. There's no liquidity to speak of - unlike, say BTC-e Bitcoin and Litecoin markets. That's why exchanges like BTCe don't bother with other alts. The volume in the mainstream coins is huge - pros that trade 50-100 BTC at a time.

If you have even 1 large holder who has a lot of BC wanting to profit take, you'd see exactly the pattern you've observed: wait for liquidity to emerge, cash out a load, then wait another 10 hours or so for the bid side to "recharge" itself, cash out again, rinse and repeat.

I don't think there needs to be any conspiracy associated with it - and even if there was, they'd still need to have the BC to be able to place the order so there's no material difference to what I've just described.

There are 75 million BC's in circulation. That is quite a large amount. It means that BC is already at a tenth of Peercoin's price corrected for coin supply. So even if it got to Peercoin's valuation it would only be a tenfold gain from here whereas the buy in required would be many hundreds of times the buy in that was needed to get this far.

Taking all this into account, it's not a bad point for a large holder to "get off the bus" since they could take the view that there's more chance of it going down than up from here. THat's what's behind those big sellwalls.

Think of a funnel with the hole plugged. It takes only 10 cc to get a 5 cm rise in water level but a 100cc to get the next 5cm rise. That's where BC is right now.

Yes - I noticed that as well. I pointed it out in an earlier post and someone called me a "c*nt" for it    They must've thought I was just idle trolling. I wasn't - I was making this exact observation.

All the same, that can't go on forever. Their supply must run out at some point. It could just be a massive holder who's doing an interim profit take. The volume in general isn't that high so it wouldn't take a huge amount.

That's one of the clever things about the multi-pool because it's got the ability to switch coins in an instant and always targets the most profitable coin. Everything's taken into account including difficulty, hashrate, market price etc.

It might change the whole landscape of cryptos if the idea spreads because it could just scare away both miners and investors from any coing that happens to be targeted by the multi-pools. I don't know - this is one of the interesting things about this development.

Compensating for coin inflation isn't the problem with cryptos - only in a theoretical world where they are in established use.

The problem is maintaining the speculative value. That's something only the market can do. Since none of these coins are actually used for anything, they go up on speculative speculative investment and back down on lack of same. Nothing to do with coin inflation.

However, few of them have "got through" to the next phase of investment after the initial pump & dump. That's what the multipool could do for Blackcoin - help it bridge that gap and allow it a second chance at the 'pump' stage except this time based on fundamentals. Kind of like cold starting an engine with an external starter till it's self sustaining.

Actually, I've just worked out that the pool revenue from blackcoinpool alone should be between 30-50 btc if their hashrates are right (and if I've got my terra's and giga's the right number of zeroes).

In fact, if it's pointed at Zedcoin right now, they're looking at the best part of a whopping 50 btc per day. I think I need to check my sums:

21,000 GH/s SHA256 and 3,000,000 (3 million) KH/s scrypt.

Anyone disagree ? If it's correct, say goodbye to all known sellwalls on Mintpal as from tonight.

What buy orders ? The market depth's asymmetrically loaded 4:1 on the sell side on cryptsy. Mintpal is about 1:1 with most of the support around 9000 Sats.

EDIT: In the last 10 minutes another 150,000 BC of asks has gone onto the Mintpal order book taking the market depth ratio to 1:1.7 bid to ask.

However, that 20 BTC coming from the pool could almost buy up half order book on Mintpal and it has about 4 times the volume of sales orders than Cryptsy. So there is a bit of a confrontation coming between the pool demand and some long term holders cashing out.

For those confused, the day the newspaper promo comes out isn't the day you pump - its the day you dump because that represents the maturation of all the pre-emtively priced-in promotional value, which in Crypto is most of it. Thats why all these sell orders are coming onto the books - because there's no more "something coming up" factor.

On the other hand, what Blackcoin's got which other projects haven't up till now is the multipool factor. We'll now see what effect that has. It could bust through the 10 resistance against the usual flow of trade during this phase, in which case we could be into uncharted waters that would allow the longer term pluses (like Coinkite etc) to take effect.

BC $200,000 away from Vert on marketcap.

LoL. What called for that ?

Mintpal building up a bit of steam to try to break the 10k wall again.

Blackcoin holders don't want to let it though. They keep drowning the noob 10k bidders in a relentless cascade of Blackcoin coming out of cold storage for a monumental profit take.