Snow: “The token supply can grow (if speculators drive up the price) until the price stabilizes. And the token supply can fall (if speculators drive the price down) until the price stabilizes. But in both cases, the stable price is when the value of the token matches the money real applications are spending to buy Entry Credits in order to put data into the protocol. That is because the 73K factoids generated each year naturally trends to the value of the factoids drained from the supply to write into the protocol. If people are spending 1 million dollars to put data into factom per year, then 73K factoids should be worth 1 million dollars.”
Can you link to where this quote is please? It's from an AMA: https://forum.bitcoin.com/ama-ask-me-anything/i-am-paul-snow-the-architect-of-factom-and-chair-of-the-texas-bitcoin-conference-ask-me-anything-t4026.htmlActually this is an interesting quote to zero in on. We've been discussing off-and-on what a "natural" or fair price for FCT would be in the future, and this quote seems to provide a strong clue. Given the price-stabilization that Paul Snow mentions, it should, I believe, be possible to deduce a FCT price based on various level of system-use. Fsr I'm having a tough time wrapping my mind around how exactly to do this ... but if someone could provide test examples of moderate/reasonable Factom use in the future—based on current usage trends, etc.—it should be possible to reverse-engineer what the prices of FCT would be in order to maintain the price stability Snow mentions. So with light / medium / heavy use over the next, say 5-10 years, FCT should be worth X / Y / or Z. Thanks to anyone able to give this calculation a crack. I just see that P. Snow made a mistake there: "73K factoids generated each year" - it's per month. Or I'm wrong and that would be very good news. ;-) Indeed, the FCT inflation is set at 73K per month or 876K per year. From Brian Deery ( https://www.reddit.com/r/factom/comments/436cj9/entry_credits_and_factoids/ ) : "In contrast to many other projects, Factoids are not trying to be money. We already have internet money, and that is bitcoin. Factoids are a tool to pay the servers in a scalable decentralized way, coupled with a way to provably show that value was destroyed. Entry Credits are the embodiment of that sacrificed value. They cannot be traded, so I would not call them a token per se. All they can do is pay for data to go into factom. The two stage (Factoid / Entry Credit) system is to allow for a predictable cost of adding data into the system while the market price of the factoid fluctuate. To pay for the server+engineering time, new factoids would be created at a rate of 20%/year of the token sale amount. 4379795.611338 factoids were sold, which corresponds to 875959.1222676 per year or 72996.5935223 per month. On the other had to purchase entry credits, factoids are removed from circulation. These factoids are not recaptured by the servers, and are gone forever. This rate depends entirely on how many people are adding data into factom. The federated servers goal is to make each unit they are granted become more valuable. The best way they have of doing this is to increase the amount of value people are sacrificing to place data into the blockchain. The more people are using the system, the more demand there is for the tokens, and the higher the market price. The closed loop feedback nature of the system means in the long term (absent speculation), the dollar amount of the factoid inflation will match the dollar amount of entry credits being purchased. Speculation thrown into this will drive the dollar price up or down from this equilibrium. Now when we have this mismatch between the source (inflation) and the sink (entry credit purchases) then the increased or decreased supply will tend to correct the price towards equilibrium. There is no way to tell how many factoids there will be in the future, since it depends on usage of the system. There is a ceiling, though, which is the existing amount + inflation." |
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"ETH / DAO Summary of Events" https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/4xdq4h/a_summary_of_events/So where does this leave us right now? Who or what entity is holding the funds in Poloniex? Since poloniex is a regulated exchange, the account that holds all the recovered funds surely must be held by a real person and he surely could be brought to stand trial in court if any owner of DAO thought so?  |
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I'm a new convert to Factom and have bought in for the long-term with a fairly large purchase. This had better work because I am missing out on a fairly nice recent uptick in Lisk price, where I've been since their IPO. The problem with Lisk is, they are still organizing and are nowhere near actually implementing a business on a sidechain. And they are depending on others to create that sidechain business, too. Obviously, Factom is landing actual real-money contracts Right Now.
Weighing significantly on my decision to jump in here, I met Paul Snow two years ago at the first Texas Bitcoin Conference. He's a great guy. If he's involved with Factom, that's a Good Thing.
So...how does one get selected to run a Federated Server or Audit Server?
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So all DAO token holders get their share in ETC back from the white hats?
I think that's right...but this is still such a confused, chaotic mess I'm not absolutely sure... |
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Christian Reitwießner Announces New Release of Solidity Christian Reitwießner just announced the latest release of Solidity over on reddit, and is answering comments there. You may recall I made a little post with lots of red letters a few pages back about him. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4x42o8/solidity_version_036_released/?st=irr1ewnv&sh=54efad63Here's a comment that I just left for him: "Chris - Please respond to this Bitcointalk post : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559630.msg15875878#msg15875878 . The DAO hacks, both black hat and white hat, took detailed knowledge of Solidity. Do you really claim that you or and every member of your development team had zero involvement with all DAO hacks? YOU MUST ADDRESS THIS IN A PUBLIC FORUM. Please do it now." Maybe you've got a comment you would also like to leave directly for Chris there, and express your opinion on how his Solidity language has impacted your personal finances. Particularly if you have any ETC due back to you from the DAO "Robin Hood Group"... Another reddit of interest, just out in the past half hour:
Follow Up Statement on the ETC Salvaged from attackDAOs https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4xasg3/follow_up_statement_on_the_etc_salvaged_from/?st=irr1dbga&sh=41e88fc6"Following the events of the last 24 hours we want to keep the community updated: After having received repeated legal threats from various individuals holding significant stakes in The DAO (still continuing), we sought legal advice to help us pursue our goal without endangering ourselves or the salvaged funds. We found support and legal advice from Bity SA, a trusted Swiss entity. It has agreed to protect, secure and later distribute the funds equitably under an independent Swiss legal structure. The number 1 goal has always been to ensure that the salvaged funds are distributed in a fair, transparent and just manner. This remains unchanged. When the salvaged ETC were able to be recovered, signals were received from the greater community to distribute these ETC in ETH, to continue to support Ethereum projects. Also, a large portion of the community does not have the technical ability to safely work both with ETC and ETH in the same address; therefore, returning part of salvaged ETC in ETH seemed to be the safest for all the parties involved. The first actions from the Swiss structure took place Tuesday August 9th and it preferred to not announce the movement of ETC in advance to avoid speculators taking advantage of the situation. Part of these funds are still on exchanges and the rest of the funds are held in the following accounts: ETC Multisig: 0x1ac729d2db43103faf213cb9371d6b42ea7a830f ETH Multisig: 0xd3b0b4fc31ee1f8570c75c19caa93cc1557e538f BTC Multisig: 3JYwxuaHGKt8rZ9NbTEcyYRXtqkfN5Lz5Y It has now become clear that this approach will introduce many unnecessary complications and wouldn’t bring certainty to all DAO Token Holders that they would be treated equally and with fairness. The objective evolved from the most desirable outcome (distributing ETH and ETC) to the most efficient and comprehensible distribution solution, that all funds will be made available in ETC to the DAO Token Holders. To achieve this, all exchanges will be asked to return the funds to the Multisig wallets. We would like to thank the community for their trust and ask for their patience as the responsibility of returning this value to the DAO Token Holders is not an easy task. We are under a lot of pressure, but throughout this process we will continue to do the best that we can to protect the interests of the DAO Token Holders. All the legal and technical work of the community members and the companies involved, has always been on a volunteer and pro-bono basis. Following our first statement, members of the community have expressed their keenness to donate crypto assets in recognition for the efforts deployed to salvage the ETC from the attackDAOs and to distribute it back to the community. Accordingly, it will be possible to donate when retrieving the funds. We will communicate next with a detailed plan for the distribution."
MAL SPEAKING AGAIN: SOMEBODY CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG - DOESN'T THIS MEAN 7.8M ETH (9.5% OF TOTAL SUPPLY) ARE ABOUT TO BE IRREVERSIBLY CONVERTED TO ETC? What's the total spendable coins on each blockchain if this goes through?
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@Mal
Stop talking about another coins in Lisk thread. First ETC, ok let it be, now FCT hype?
You are stupid or in depression to write about FCT in LISK thread. Don't do it.
This is LISK thread, go to FCT thread to talk about your FCT trading.
If you will talk here about another coins you will lost respect, we don't want it.
This is not diary of your trading.
Make a tatoo on forearm "Lisk thread is Lisk place".
Per your request I will make no further comments on my Cryptocoin trading activities. |
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....I'm out of ETC. 5% loss. That's all I could stand. Shoulda listened to you guys. Sigh.
My name is Mal Reynolds. Please vote for me as a Lisk mainnet Active Delegate.
Sorry to hear about that! Hopefully you'll make it back if the LSK price increases. That ETC market was rough, I got out pretty quickly as I couldn't tell where the price was going. It was so volatile felt like trading with margin. Wow you guys are low with sarcasm, if you really think he is out with 5% loss, then we should make 5% donation from our profit Nice thought, but no charity for me, thanks. I try to face both my successes and my failures like a man. To use a baseball analogy, I swung for the fences instead of trying to take an easy four balls and a walk to first base. I struck out. The game ain't over. I get to bat again on another day. I can live with that. Besides Mal Reynolds, I try to live like this guy.... http://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/dos-equis-retires-most-interesting-man-world-mars-n535826My flaw (one of many) is that I like to become attached to worthwhile causes I believe in. That's why I'm at Lisk, and why I could get involved in ETC now. I never bought Ethereum before and turned my nose up at it in mid 2014 because it was a PoW coin and I am deeply philosophically opposed to PoW. That's why I threw all my Bitcoin at that time into PoS Crypti, not Ethereum. If I had chosen to throw my support behind Ethereum instead of Crypi at that time (and I distinctly remember mentally debating the point), I'd be a multimillionaire today. Sigh. I may have a slight detour on my way back into Lisk....  Interesting situation, here's details...but you gotta use a proxy server to access this if you are in the USA.... https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/factom-series-a |
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Yes, maybe you are right mate, but I still respect Malreynolds because he is an active member of the Lisk community. He is a good trader and that was his money not yours. Yes, 200 BTC profit would be a big profit. But as I know he cancelled his stop loss, so he is in loss now  Sorry Mal and wish you all my best! I told him he is making me mad by not taking 75BTC, that's insane, i cannot believe he didnt take it. It's called greed, it's a nice high. Yes, it is. I'm out of ETC. 5% loss. That's all I could stand. Shoulda listened to you guys. Sigh. My name is Mal Reynolds. Please vote for me as a Lisk mainnet Active Delegate. |
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https://www.ethereum.org/agreementDispute Resolution
All disputes or claims arising out of, relating to, or in connection with the Terms, the breach thereof, or use of the Ethereum Platform shall be finally settled under the Rules of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce by one or more arbitrators appointed in accordance with said Rules. All claims between the parties relating to these Terms that are capable of being resolved by arbitration, whether sounding in contract, tort, or otherwise, shall be submitted to ICC arbitration. Prior to commencing arbitration, the parties have a duty to negotiate in good faith and attempt to resolve their dispute in a manner other than by submission to ICC arbitration. The arbitration panel shall consist of one arbitrator only, unless the ICC Court of Arbitration determines that the dispute is such as to warrant three arbitrators. If the Court determines that one arbitrator is sufficient, then such arbitrator shall be Swiss resident. If the Court determines that three arbitrators are necessary, then each party shall have 30 days to nominate an arbitrator of its choice -- in the case of the Claimant, measured from receipt of notification of the ICC Court’s decision to have three arbitrators; in the case of Respondent, measured from receipt of notification of Claimant’s nomination. All nominations must be Swiss resident. If a party fails to nominate an arbitrator, the Court will do so. The Court shall also appoint the chairman. All arbitrators shall be and remain “independent” of the parties involved in the arbitration. The place of arbitration shall be Zug, Switzerland. The language of the arbitration shall be English. In deciding the merits of the dispute, the tribunal shall apply the laws of Switzerland and any discovery shall be limited and shall not involve any depositions or any other examinations outside of a formal hearing. The tribunal shall not assume the powers of amiable compositeur or decide the case ex aequo et bono. In the final award, the tribunal shall fix the costs of the arbitration and decide which of the parties shall bear such costs in what proportion. Every award shall be binding on the parties. The parties undertake to carry out the award without delay and waive their right to any form of recourse against the award in so far as such waiver can validly be made.I guess if you dissolve your company only six months after setting it up in Zug, the above no longer applies?
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Actually I just talked to him on reddit, he admits he was the dude, but claims he acted alone and VB knew nothing. Par for the course, same approach I figured they would have when confronted about the 51% attack attempt. Man these kids...give them just a little rope and they're hanging themselves before I finish my second beer.
Can you link your Posts? references? I'm working on this for an updated post. Standby. May take a little while to get it organized in lurid enough style. If you think I'm letting this slide into oblivion, you don't know me. I LIKE using big, red letters. A preview: https://blog.slock.it/vitalik-buterin-gavin-wood-alex-van-de-sande-vlad-zamfir-announced-amongst-stellar-dao-curators-44be4d12dd6e#.fy0phzorh Who's Got The Keys To $16M In Other People's ETC, Alex?
Are They Wearing Black Hats Now For ETH? |
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  Where's the update on the 8M ETC you are holding, Alex? |
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Two pages back, top of #132... |
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How many developers did btc had in the beginning stage ?
The real question is: why did Charles not assign three devs to Lisk when he was taken on as a Lisk advisor and accepted an advisor fee? Because he wants to avenge himself through ETC. "Im gonna show them I was right" is what I see in this. They kicked him out cause he has different vision, now he is going to show them that his vision was better. ETC is his batsuit, batmobile and batjet. and let me guess Vitalik is the BitJoker? Which makes Lisk......Robin, the Boy Wonder!  (Apologies, Max....I know it really DOES take time to set up a gGmbH, and you are doing a good job...this was just too funny to not post. At least, funny to me.) |
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Bitpop, there is an unmoderated ETC thread open. Will you continue with this thread or will you lock it in the near future? Maybe it is good to try the unmoderated thread for now and just reopen this thread when things get messy there. What do you think?
What's the link to the thread you are referencing? BTW, much respect to BBC. I watch World News daily, also Click and The Travel Show. |
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Your missing the point...this coin called etc is incomplete...so its is far from classic!
From a technical standpoint, the coin called ETC is as "complete" as the coin called ETH - they are literally identical at this moment in how they are pushing around their 1s and 0s in cyberspace. Thus any differences in perceived value between them are due to the community that surrounds them. So it's the community around ETC is incomplete, not the coin. The ETC community has existed for two weeks instead of two years like the ETH group. The key metric is that the ETC community, existing only 2% as long as ETH community, is being valued by the market as having 20% of the value of the ETH community. So...if 2 weeks = 20% equality market value... at this rate parity at 100% will occur in eight more weeks by early October.  Finished forked coin dumping
From March 9: "The Ethereum developers have made available the first python based proof of concept (simulation) release of Serenity, the version of the Ethereum protocol designed to move from consensus through proof-of-work to proof-of-stake. Called Serenity PoC2 (which contains the Casper economic consensus protocol) is now available on Github and continues to be not a testnet-ready or production-ready client, according to Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Butterin." |
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bitnovosti, who is the same guy that started the ETC slack channel at http://ethereumclassic.herokuapp.com , also runs an excellent Russian ETC website. Well worth reading now and monitoring in the future. Let's face it, Lenin would have chosen ETC over the czarist ETH. Open this in Chrome and select translate: https://ethclassic.ru/ |
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