Bitcoin Forum
September 24, 2024, 03:48:57 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.1 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 [386] 387 388 389 390 391 »
7701  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 28, 2015, 02:13:47 AM
According to TPTB_need_war it was the fault of Charlie Hebo Staff that they got themselves killed. They should have known better than to go to work and let themselves get shot by crazed Muslim Extremists.

Indeed. Has your generation lost common sense?

Back in my day we sort of knew if you play with hand grenades, you will be maimed.

Your generation is so fucking entitled.

Who the fuck goes working in a danger zone without adequate security? An idiot.

How much more duh! can you be.

George Carlin joked that why do those people in Hawaii who build their houses next to active volcano wonder why they have lava in the living room.  Cheesy
7702  Economy / Economics / Re: One-world reserve currency inevitable and will enslave all nations? on: April 28, 2015, 01:49:36 AM
Thats what the guy on xapo said on the ted talk, BTC may challenge gold as a store of wealth, that is way more realistic than challenging fiat national currencies. I tend to agree with this view.

If BTC replaces gold as a store of wealth, it would automatically be a strong candidate for world reserve currency. If gold could be sent over the internet and used to settle trades, do you think countries would bother with using USD?

The more salient term you wanted to use is de facto.

You've got a scaling problem. $10 billion market cap versus $200 trillion in global wealth.

The price of bitcoin is the variable in that equation. Problem solved.  Wink

Simpleton nonsense. Peter R showed the market cap is following Metcalf's law so the only way you can get to that valuation is for it to be widely adopted.

Another way of knowing your idea is nonsense, is if 1% held BTC, then the other 99% would need to be impoverished or the global wealth would have to double.

The problem remains scaling.
7703  Economy / Economics / Re: One-world reserve currency inevitable and will enslave all nations? on: April 28, 2015, 01:32:43 AM
Thats what the guy on xapo said on the ted talk, BTC may challenge gold as a store of wealth, that is way more realistic than challenging fiat national currencies. I tend to agree with this view.

If BTC replaces gold as a store of wealth, it would automatically be a strong candidate for world reserve currency. If gold could be sent over the internet and used to settle trades, do you think countries would bother with using USD?

The more salient term you wanted to use is de facto.

You've got a scaling problem. $10 billion market cap versus $200 trillion in global wealth.
7704  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 28, 2015, 01:19:03 AM
Monero (CryptoNote) planted by the NSA?

https://criticl.me/post/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-2292

This essay has illuminated one of the greatest flaws of altcoins — they don't share the same network thus they don't have the security-of-scale to resist 50% attacks.

Those who have paid attention know I have already wrote about what I think the solution is. It is a paradigm shift. And it will help Monero and all the altcoins.

I also don't fully trust the cryptography in CN's ring sigs, especially when combined with the theoretical combinatorial attack I presented to the Monero devs. I think we could improve on that. But it doesn't necessarily mean I wouldn't use CN as is, if nothing better was available.
7705  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 28, 2015, 12:49:15 AM
Capitalism it's not a static system, but rather a system that grows and evolves.  It starts as a multitude of small efficient businesses, and over time consolidates into a handful of gigantic economic entities. When they reach sufficient size and wealth, they purchase the politicians as they did in the US and then begin the process of harvesting the working class.  In its last stage, it collapses into a neofeudal system with a tiny handful of super wealthy, and a vast sea of serfs and slaves. The disaster you see today is just part of the normal lifecycle of capitalism.

That was true in the Industrial Age where stored monetary capital was paramount because production require large fixed capital investments and the mental assets were very insignificant portion of the costs of production.

The Knowledge Age changes this entirely. Click the link the quote post below.

You entirely ignored the entire point of my essays in the opening post of this thread.

I am getting tired of repeating this same damn concept over and over. Why can't commentators read the thread before commenting?


The Knowledge Age alters the economics:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg11193804#msg11193804

Review the link above so you can gain some insight into how fixed capital inertia (a form of liability) is a fundamental generative issue.

Elimination of ... at the time when fixed capital liability was unavoidable due to lack of Knowledge Age technology put society into a Dark Age.
7706  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 28, 2015, 12:09:30 AM

Coinits you do realize how dumb you are? Of course you don't.

My high IQ father (former West Coast Head Attorney for Exxon and moved up higher than that) once remarked, "People think so linearly".

Do you realize what a burden it is on me to have to come back and refute all the dumb shit that dozens (if not 100s, I've lost count) of readers post when they don't understand what I understand?

Unfortunately you dumbasses will win the battle of who can write more dumbshit so that other dumbshits will follow your dumbshit.

You couldn't possibly fathom your error could you?

It is not her fault that the guy is violating her trust, but it is her fault that she trusted someone. Who is supposed to be responsible for her judgment?

What exactly do you propose to do in the anonymous age when people can upload and host photos anonymously to the internet? You won't be able to prove who is at fault. Then what do you do? Throw a hissy fit?

What was the entire point of Satoshi's miraculous Proof-of-Work invention? It solved the Byzantine General's Problem of not needing to trust untrustable 3rd parties — a decentralized trust solution.

So instead you would prefer to have a prison planet wherein you transfer the monopoly on force to a collective which will always be infested by the opportunists that want to profit on that power vacuum. You will choose to destroy the maximization of entropy in pursuit of a futile goal of abrogating individuals of their culpability for serendipity. And in your vain and futile attempt to remove nature from the universe (to reverse the irreversible trend of entropy to maximum), you enslave your dumbass Marxist selves.

Go ahead. I know I can't stop you. That is why I will create anonymous systems. So I can opt-out of your dumbass insanity.

Have fun dumbshit. This is not ad hominem. I am speaking factually.

P.S. Aren't you noticing all the pumped up propaganda now on these nude photos issue? I have seen another lady on C|Net, etc.. Don't you realize the powers-that-be are pitching this to program your dumbass brains? You fools never learn.

...his dumbfuckery is at an all time low. He blames victims for crimes against them.

Since you can't seem to grasp the overriding issue is the holistic cost of societal collapse as explained above, let me put it another way for your pee-size brain can maybe fathom.

If you go climb into the lion's den and they eat you, are we supposed to blame the lions? Is the government supposed to protect people from their own irresponsibility? And what moral hazard does that create?

So just do what ever the fuck risky stuff you want, because social insurance, welfare, and the Big Brother always has your back ass covered. Let's charge the cost of your risky choices to the collective, so we can all increase the costs and bankrupt the society. And while we are at it, let's hand the keys to some enforcers that we "trust". So then you've transferred the individual trust issue to a collective trust issue. And how does that work out every damn time over the 6000 years of recorded history.

Dumbfuckery indeed.

Do you fucking Marxists even have a brain stem?

Why fool yourselves in an excrutiatingly slow decline into eugenics and megadeath (as the State is bankrupted). Just go directly to the end game and kill nature. Drop the nuclear bomb and be done with life. That is really what you are driving towards, but like dumbass sheep you can't even see it. You only see the ass of the sheep in front of you with your linear "thinking".


P.S. the anonymity age will provide an elegant solution to above problem. She can offer an anonymous bounty for his execution. You will need to be more careful about offending people in the Knowledge Age. You won't sleep well at night if you do evil in the Knowledge Age. The more people you do evil against, the more your odds of suffering will increase. Justice indeed.

CoinCube you don't want to give individuals the power to enforce justice (surely the 97.5% can slaughter the 2.5% sociopaths)? So then you prefer JustUs instead? Hand over the keys of power to the sociopaths my friend. Enjoy your insanity.
7707  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Is Hillary Clinton Trustworthy? on: April 27, 2015, 09:37:56 PM
Where is the poll so I can vote that she is a sociopath?

And anyone who votes is an idiot.

Amazing how much time and effort you fools waste in this forum discussing shit that can't be fixed and doesn't matter nor accomplish anything.

Can't you fools do anything productive with your time?

BYE!
7708  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [Vote] Who did 911? on: April 27, 2015, 09:22:52 PM
DEEP STATE of the US gov. Dick Cheney played a vital role.

Why can't I vote?
7709  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 27, 2015, 07:51:24 PM
I am going to attempt to formally and analytically address the issue of potential energy vs. entropy, because I think I may have the mental acuity to do it this morning. First I need to go for a run, then I will dig into it and see if my strategy is feasible. But I will be limited to about 2 hours to expend on this, so I can't promise I can get it done in that time window.

Btw, I posted more details about my health and note I was having a groggy/foggy day yesterday which is perhaps why my last discussion with CoinCube didn't go directly to an irrefutable analytical rebuttal.

TPTB only need two percent real return on debt to control everything, using senior secured debt.
If they get it wrong and do not get their expected return, they can crash the economy and seize
the collateral.

Note Armstrong is concurring with my "solutions" post yesterday that gold will align with dollar cash (and dollar denominated stocks and real estate) as private assets. My point is the powers-that-be must destroy anonymously held, untaxed gold and move to electronic currency in order to continue to get their required usury ROI.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/04/27/gold-v-dollar-2/

Quote from: Armstrong
The traditional mumbo jumbo is dollar up, gold down. However, we may be entering a completely new phase. Gold and the dollar may no longer be archenemies. They are actually now moving to the same side of the fence, for the common enemy is the rapidly approaching electronic money, with so many analysts at banks now calling to abolishing paper money. What is interesting is that paper money places a check and balance against central banks from moving deep into negative interest rates. At some point, more and more people will just withdraw their cash and hoard it, which has already begun.

Right now, gold enthusiasts are closely watching the statement expected for this week from the Federal Reserve policy makers on Wednesday. They are clinging to anything, looking for any clues that the Fed is becoming less likely to raise interest rates. They fear that raising interest rates will support the dollar, but there is really a lot more going on behind the curtain.
7710  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 27, 2015, 03:50:49 AM
The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

What you are describing is in essence the higher ordered potential energy gathered via the search through aka harvesting of entropy. It is not entropy itself.

That depends on your frame-of-reference. And then we need that deep essay I have yet to write...

...I think we will both agree we are exhausted. And the distinction you make won't really change the conclusions of where we are headed will it?

I do not currently believe distinction will change the nature of the problem much.
It has a quite large effect on the potential nature of the solution however.

Yep tired here too  Smiley

Yes feel free to publish. I won't reply however I am officially on Bitcointalk vacation

The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

What you are describing is in essence the higher ordered potential energy gathered via the search through aka harvesting of entropy. It is not entropy itself.

Let me put it another way. You want entropy to be referentially transparent, but it isn't.

You would prefer to view entropy as an agnostic soup from which order rises. But nothing in the universe is absolute. Everything is relative. Otherwise there would be an edge to the universe.

May I print this reply publicly?
7711  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 27, 2015, 02:50:45 AM

But, it looks like the varying uses of the term "entropy" and "Marxism" (not to mention comments on four-letter personality types) are not really advancing us any further in discussing "Economic Devastation", and in fact the current discussion approaches that of the how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...  

*   *   *

Lately all I have seen re defending one´s self vs. an overly greedy .gov in need is the need for advanced education (TPTB) and HODLING assets like gold and BTC (from me for example).

1)  I would like to see other suggestions on what we can do as individuals to keep ourselves & families OK in the devastating storms to come.  And other than that of acquiring advanced programming skills WAY beyond me and most others.

2)  I am also interested in finding and examining SCENARIOS of Economic Devastation, and the probabilities of each and possible resolutions (at individual and perhaps (dare I suggest it) at some sort of Collective level.

I do understand that this may be kind-of a thread-jack, and if so voted, I will STFU and retire from this most interesting thread.

Ok one last quick two posts and then I really will be gone for a few days. Sometimes I think I am starting to understand Anonymint's password scrambling habits. OROBTC I agree with you that discussion of four-letter personality types does not really advance the discussion. I will avoid doing so going forward. Thank you for calling me out on that.

In terms of the recent sometimes eye glazing back and forth on entropy the reason it matters is that it has a very large impact on your #2 above. If I am correct for example then Martin Armstrongs solution of education is the right one. Also it means that Bitcoin (or something like it) may be a critical part of the solution. If TBTP is correct then Armstrong's is wasting his time as education will accomplish little or nothing and Bitcoin will become a part of the problem. Also Monero (or something like it) may be a critical part of the solution. I do not expect we will reach consensus on the entropy issue but I am sure that side discussion will wind down eventually probably due to mutual exhaustion. Cheesy

I definitely agree that this thread is lacking suggestions for the individual. I would be happy to see more talk on that. I can tell you that one thing I did to was to ensure that my family was located in a city with 1) stable local finances and 2) a thriving information technology sector. If things go bad I am confident my local order will hold up longer then it will in other places. Also it significantly limits the risk that my home will be turned into a giant leaching mechanism. I can and will be hit at the federal level but at the local level there is a small buffer.

CoinCube had made a very astute communication to me in private some months ago wherein he argued very convincingly that he had at least until 2017 in the USA before needing to make any big changes.

I think CoinCube is correct to leverage the collective and the highest quality cities for some period of time, just as long as he doesn't wait too long and lose the opportunity to make any shifts that he wants to make later. This is why Armstrong is correct that there will be ingress into the dollar and USA as the rest of the world turns down.

The powers-that-be want a slow burn with propaganda to slide the masses into the NWO.

Thus the greatest disruption should come the soonest to those areas which are not Western mainstream and which are outlets for freedom that the powers-that-be wish to suppress.

Thus I would expect the powers-that-be to encourage a rise in threats to personal security (e.g. kidnappings, muggings, violence, paramilitarism, and other conflicts) in for example the wide open spaces in South America.

I see a slow burn of closing off all the outlets for individual freedom to funnel the mainstream masses into the cities and the NWO.

So if you play along, you can buy some time. The general thesis is that the NWO paradigm is not going to collapse overnight. It will slow burn and be juxtaposed against a rising Knowledge Age that won't assert itself entirely for some decade or more (Oxford U. predicted 47% share of job automation not be reached until 2033).

Eventually I believe that mainstream system turns into a eugenics paradigm, but it won't be there overnight. Even totalitarian, fascist Nazi Germany had to first be spawned through some 15 years of a socialist, communist Wiemar Republic. Roughly I would say the USA's Wiemar Republic began on Sept. 11, 2001. So we would be looking at some where between 2018 and 2024, before the USA turns internally violent. The turn towards overt fascism (hence they no longer even try to hide it) began on April 2013 with the Snowden revelations, but this is still in the very early stages of development towards fascist, totalitarianism.

Asia (to have a decline starting about now or 2016) will bottom by 2020 and begin to grow again. It appears this will be done in the context of a scripted fake proxy war between China and SE Asia neighbors with the USA & Japan pretending to be the antagonists. The point of this is to bring Asia into a Technocracy controlled by the global elite (the banksters) and the NWO trajectory. The economic bottoming of Asia in 2020 will coincide with a capitulation towards accepting the loss of a lot of freedoms on personal liberty, while in exchange granting the very high entropy free movement of people between all nations in Asia with the Asian Union to be launched in 2015 and gradually ramped up. For example expect the Philippines to effectively lose its bank secrecy as their banks harmonize with ASEAN norms.

All those who are buying gold and bullets, these won't even be needed (if you are in a high quality city) for some years yet and then later when you would need them, they won't be effective.

Think it out. No man is an island at least in the physical world (in the virtual world a man can be autonomous by leveraging expertise and anonymous but still not an island). If it is you defending your abode against reoccurring waves of roving paramilitaries, you have no chance no matter how many rounds of ammunition you've stockpiled. Your community is protecting you else you are toast. Ditto gold. If you community is against it, it is useless. As soon as you make one trade, word spreads you have gold and so the hunt begins to track you and mug you. The mainstream system is heading towards electronic money and outlawing all forms of physical black markets which can be easily ferreted out with stings, etc.. It simply won't be efficient to use gold to live off of.

The Knowledge Age virtual economy can easily adapt to anonymous crypto-currency. There are none of the insoluble issues as there are with gold being adopted as a currency.

So the bottom line is you should be investing in crypto-currency and not gold.

Gold should begin to rise in 2016 and you could probably safely hold it until 2017 or so, and sell out before the battle against gold intensifies. My stance is not to hold extensive stashes of gold into the tempest period of 2018+ (or when ever it begins), except for holding a small quantity of recognizeable coins for a "get out dodge" emergency stash you could use to perhaps trade for a safe passage. Gold will never again become worthy for individuals (it will remain worthy for institutions). We are entering the transition to the end for gold. Gold will probably rise to $5000 (max) but I would be a seller way before that probably on a double from $1000 to $2000 (or if luckily enough to buy the coming bottom at roughly $850 so perhaps hold for a triple if circumstances are favorable).

Gold will be worthy perhaps in high net worth cliques that agree to anonymity (or are insiders of the NWO) and use it as a physical accounting with which they can trade between other assets such as the NWO currency (if they are insiders) or anonymous crypto-currency (for the crypto-currency $billionaires perhaps). But I am not really confident that gold will be embraced by the crypto-currency $billionaires. I think they will prefer to buy businesses and code instead to hold as real assets and a basket of crypto-currencies (to counter risk of any one evaporating into thin air).

Moreover, make sure you are tax compliant. And make sure you don't fall into the upper 10% in terms of the net worth that the system knows you have. My stance is to be a nobody and be basically invisible.

So you will need to move your excess stored wealth into anonymous crypto-currency and Knowledge Age investments. I will be waiting there for you with my arms open waiting for you to make me a $billionaire (my fantasy lol).

The Knowledge Age won't destroy all stored wealth. It will destroy stored wealth that doesn't want to be actively invested. So any simple plans for investment, i.e. buy and HODL are destined to fail. You need to be able to think out what types of ventures and investments will succeed and work out the timing too. Sorry there are no shortcuts to being an investor, because you are only given that wealth if you are helping the knowledge to anneal to maximum entropy (see the Parable of the Talents in the Bible).

As for example OROBTC mentioning the thought of investing in another condo in Peru, I can't comment on the local market. I can only say that the entire world will shift radically socialist as the global economy turns down, and net worth will be targeted. Investing in the future of the developing markets seems fundamentally sound but don't know to what extent countries will diverge before they converge back towards growth.

My overriding thought is that net worth can become a dangerous liability. I am eager for anonymous crypto-currency because I don't wish to worry about the social liability my stored wealth can cause (I don't have any more stored wealth lol, so this more hypothetical for me at the moment). However, we don't yet know anonymous crypto-currency will be reliable. Thus I am more eager to invest myself into actual businesses and code in the Knowledge Age. But investing in ventures can be risky, so I can understand others will want to look for more generic investment choices. Short-term it appears buying BTC and gold at the coming final lows is a NO BRAINER.

That will provide a window of time (2 years?) to appraise developments and look for alternatives. The downside of investing in BTC is that it is not anonymous so any net worth there is going to have to be reportable to the society. Gold maybe could be done anonymously, but not forever. It might be possible to buy some gold anonymously on the coming low and cash out of anonymously in the near-term. It will vary according to each person's locale and circumstances.

It is possible to buy BTC or Monero anonymously. But it must be done very carefully.

So in summary, I say be invisible in a quality community, unless you are sure you can be entirely isolated and self-sufficient. Stockpile BTC and enjoy life, keeping an eye out for better Knowledge Age investments to diversify into but being very cautious about risk of fledgling ventures. Keeping in mind that the Knowledge Age is not only about programming, it is also any sort of entrepreneurship that incorporates mental effort as its main asset, e.g. Hoverbike.

I welcome feedback on this post. I like to see what the reaction and opinion of others.

Add: you might want to consider how your local community will adapt to the Knowledge Age. It seems perhaps we should be building virtual communities of ourselves within communities. For example, CoinCube astutely points out that his community's risk is primarily coming from the Federal level. For example, my risks in the Philippines is that I am not a citizen (still a USA citizen) and the changes coming with the rising Technocracy to be installed in Asia by the powers-that-be.
7712  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 27, 2015, 01:41:42 AM

The actual rebuttal cuts straight to the meat of the issue. All those random books can be described by the instructions on how to create the random generator.
(For any readers that didn't understand the above point, remember entropy is the minimum information required to describe the outcome, thus instructions on building the random generator is the compressed information content and thus the actual information content)

We can create random generators by simply tapping into the randomness of the universe, see the implementation of some chips: TRNG
Same as creating offsprings, creation doesnot imply complete knowledge.

Then you haven't created any new information content with the output of those random generators.

In short, random generators don't exist.  Wink

(I am a Renaissance man. Expect me to make off-the-wall statements that are shockingly or surprisingly true. My greatest fear is that I will someday exhaust my creativity and then please do me the favor of shooting me. In the interim time, work and play hard.)
7713  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 27, 2015, 01:08:34 AM
Efficiency and knowledge age,
Efficiency is not a capital accumulation or monetary thing, it is simple a ratio of  result / work
Example, when microsoft integrated all their various windows technologies ie evc, vc++, mfc, windows api, vb under .net microsoft inceased efficiency, every time a programmer makes a choice on a platform or technology he sacrifices dof and makes a commitment to increase efficiency. Thus communities are grown and due to network effects some technologies or platforms dominate, this domination is a result of efficiency seeking actors, so efficiency matters even in knowledge age, in some form or another,why because in order to produce anything you *have* to make choices, and the more efficient a choice the more actors will select it efectively lowering their commulative entropy

Citing special cases of localized efficiency doesn't vacate my assertion (and informal proof) that generalized, global efficiency is the maximization of entropy. Over the long-term systems self-organize (anneal) to prioritize global efficiency by eliminating Coasian barriers.

So sorry your view is too simpleton.

The generalized definition of efficiency does incorporate any domain (including capital formation) that is relevant to maximizing global entropy.

I was working on trying to solve the problem of not having to commit so tightly coupled to a platform, because I know how important this could be for scaling in the Knowledge Age. In that linked thread, I was getting deeper into the concept of the Theory of the Firm, why corporations exist and why the Knowledge Age eliminates them. Unfortunately I've had to put that on the back burner and it is very ambitious.

Ah I just bumped into my 2011 prediction on Google, which seems to be coming true. Yet another in my long list of correct conceptualizations that come to fruition.

Capital and knowledge age
If we think capital as the means of production, then in the knowledge age, knowledge and knowledge workers is the capital, essentialy threatening "capitalism", because the means of production are now free to walk off the factory! So capitalism will be reinvented in less centralized and more distributed fashion.

Bravo! You got that aspect of the concept.  Grin

But old money will play a role too just as the landlords became rhe first capitalists, likewise the capitalists will play a role in the knowledge age.
Consider that knowledge is education, not long ago education was elites only priviledge, we may see a regression here
Consider that knowledge is data, and see the disconcerning aggregation of data into the likes of google and facebook etc
Consider that knowledge is Patents, what is the trend? Do you see many garage inventors applying or the legal costs are barrier?
It not as rosy as you think but I cannot deny its an opportunity for a new start.

Please read the "Financeability of Knowledge" section of the Rise of Knowledge essay linked from the opening post of this thread. Also understand that knowledge comes into existence serendipitously and thus it can't be centralized.

The one-world reserve currency NWO huddle of the masses will try its best to parasite and control the Knowledge Age, but will fail (and that is why I say the one-world NWO will be a eugenics death program). Nature will not allow the trend towards maximum entropy to reverse.

For example, ObamaCare is already gearing up to euthanize boomers. Obama already did it with the vet scandal. Much more of that to come.

Entropy and networks
Consider N Actors with information content of size C bits, lets see it as a variable that holds the state of each actor. So total actor entropy S=N*k*lgC. Now let us have those actors communicate (link up in a network), say 1bit channel. This means that between 2 actors a single bit is shared thus reducing the states of the reciever anď his entropy to k*lg(C-1) . From this exercise one can see that the disconected agents have max entropy, while the maximaly connected have min entropy.

Your conceptualizations are always too simpleton.

You are thinking that a connection is a flow of entropyheat, as in the concept that the probability of walking into a room with no oxygen is very unlikely because a vacuum is an unstable state and the higher entropy of distributed oxygen molecules will rush into the vacuum at the first opportunity. This was essentially CoinCube's myopia also, although (I surmise) he was already functioning at a higher level of understanding (and so if my assumption is correct, then it won't take him much effort to come to understand my perspective).

But connections between humans are not a flow of physical matter, but rather an interaction that increases the possible divergent paths of the outcomes, thus entropy increases (or it doesn't hahaha  Cheesy). For example, imagine two humans talking on the phone about possible ideas. The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

Annealing is slowly by slowly lowering temperature, how is that process which you promote increase entropy?

Black body radiation is so insignificant (except under acceleration where it is critical to phenomenon of gravity) to what is going on to maximize entropy it is not worth mentioning.
7714  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 27, 2015, 12:03:32 AM
The Knowledge Age alters the economics such that usury is no longer viable. Please read the following. I think it is fundamental that you be exposed to the specifics of this concept:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg11193804#msg11193804

After you've consumed that, ping me and I will dig up the link to the futures argument. We need futures, but they must expire as soon as margin is exhausted. We can do this with technology. Then all your complaints against them evaporate. And they are very necessary, because without hedging farmers would be destroyed by the 7 lean years (by the serendipity). See a farmer has fixed investments. Review the link above so you can gain some insight into how fixed capital inertia (a form of liability) is a fundamental generative issue.

Elimination of usury at the time when fixed capital liability was unavoidable due to lack of Knowledge Age technology put society into a Dark Age. Usury can only go away when the reasons for its demand have been vacated by technology.

Anonymous (not the female, but rpietila can surely guess who this is) wrote:
> usury can't be eliminated with force.  Different concept than "can't be
> eliminated".
> usury was eliminated through education in the Bible, in the book of 
> Bible Gateway passage: Nehemiah 5 - New International Version
7715  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 26, 2015, 02:51:09 PM
CoinCube,

That is really brave of you. You have done a service of showing how academics are trained to view humans as dumb-downed cells and thus why they think we have to controlled like cows in a corral.

Your academic cathedral entirely missed the point that the potential network effects of billions of unique human minds is an unfathomably high entropy. I suspect that potential energy efficiency exceeds the number of atoms in the universe, but I haven't tried to calculate it. Perhaps I should try to think about how to calculate the human entropy. Would be a very interesting thought experiment.
7716  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 26, 2015, 02:33:32 PM
I think TPTB is being too strict to define the word. CoinCube's points and explanations are very admissible from the Wikipediatic standpoint.

We can say that the block hashes are valuable in because they have low entropy. It costs a lot (25 BTC  Cheesy ) to produce one, even though it is only a short string of characters and compressible to half in length due to the other half being zeros.

In contrast, generating new private keys is not very costly. Their entropy is high. A private key is even harder to crack than a block hash. In this case entropy actually corresponds to information content.

But if a book is generated via a random method, it does not contain information and is not interesting to readers. Neither it is if it is too little entropy.

The number of possible states of the system is per se not much indicative of anything. Life has a balance, it's not excessively low entropy but it's also wrong to say that higher entropy always makes things better. My computer has higher entropy if I smash it into pieces, but then I cannot use it. Also it has a lower entropy if it is powdered and elements separated, but it's equally useless this way.

So the intermediate result is that both have brought good points into the discussion.

Again the frame-of-reference is critical, because the entities that are creating the most entropy in their system decide what is information content and what is not because they are maximizing the overall entropy.

Does a tree fall in the forest if no one ever sees it and it decays before anyone does? In what relevance did it exist?

A random generator could spit out zillions of "books" but do they exist if no one reads them?

But even that is not the rebuttal (well actually relevance is exactly what I write below so the above is the same point as below but that is too abstract for most readers).

The actual rebuttal cuts straight to the meat of the issue. All those random books can be described by the instructions on how to create the random generator.

Again you are commiting a similar error as CoinCube.

It is the humans who are creating the entropy, not the random generator.

TADA!  Wink

(Don't even try to win a debate against me that I've already told you that I can't lose)

(For any readers that didn't understand the above point, remember entropy is the minimum information required to describe the outcome, thus instructions on building the random generator is the compressed information content and thus the actual information content)
7717  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 26, 2015, 02:25:27 PM
Having earned a 4.0 in simultaneous biochemistry and mathematics degrees I can assure you that I know when I write at an A level.

Good slaves always give the "correct", indoctrinated answers.

You again demonstrate the classic ENFP weakness.

http://www.16personalities.com/enfp-strengths-and-weaknesses

Quote
Independent to a Fault - ENFPs loathe being micromanaged and restrained by heavy-handed rules - they want to be possessors of an altruistic wisdom that goes beyond draconian law.

The challenge for ENFPs is that they live in a world of checks and balances, a pill they are not happy to swallow.

You've made no point. My accusation was backed by my prior factual rebuttal. You've tried to say entropy is only about 3D information. Duh!

P.S. I am very much aware of my rebellious nature and also I am aware of where I need to toe the line and where I don't. In the case of the Knowledge Age and the fall of the old world into a one-world eugenics and the Knowledge Age breaking away into the new world, I am confident I am aligned with reality. My correct understanding of entropy and economics tells me this.

Add: Attaining a 4.0 GPA (and with a dual major!) is not easy and I applaud your achievement. Surely you have learned many things that can be usefully applied to the real world. And since you have real major in Math and I only dabbled in a minor in math, then surely you can run rings around me in areas where I haven't formally studied, e.g. Topology, etc.. Before I got ill, I had intended to go back and complete all the academic books for a Math major on my own. But unfortunately life robbed me. I suppose I am getting too old now (although this may be more the effects of the Multiple Sclerosis). The mental dexterity for Math declines precipitously after age 40. I never claimed that I don't have weaknesses nor am I trying to boast. My emphatic point is that you are debating me on a topic I spent years thinking about and even wrote 3 essays on. And this information content topic falls right into my career vocation of computer science. So please don't feel bad if you lose this debate.
7718  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 26, 2015, 02:07:52 PM
Having earned a 4.0 in simultaneous biochemistry and mathematics degrees I can assure you that I know when I write at an A level.

Good slaves always give the "correct", indoctrinated answers.

Quote from: Jason Hommel
I have two examples from school I'd like to share.  In my High School Junior English class back in 1987, I was getting discouraged.  I kept getting B's on my essays, despite my best efforts at analyzing the literature up for discussion.  I didn't know what else to do, and one day I just gave up.  Instead of analysis, I simply said how great the literature was, and I parroted back the same exact analysis that was discussed in class with absolutely zero new insights.  To hide the lack of real discussion and analysis in my essay, I enlarged my handwriting to fill the page.  I was expecting a D minus, or even an F.  I was almost ashamed of myself.

Some of you might guess what happened next.  I got an A.  My first A.  I was simply astounded.  Flabbergasted.  Surprised beyond belief.  I could not believe it.  I seriously wondered why.  I went to the teacher.  I explained myself.  I admitted there was no analysis.  She rebuked me.  Of course there was analysis; the same one we discussed in class, she said.  Exactly, I said.  Exactly, she said.  What?  I don't get it, don't you want us to analyse it?  But you did, she said.  And you kept it short, simple, to the point, and you were exactly on point, and understood the class discussion exactly, she said.  But I felt I didn't analyse anything; I felt like a tape recorder with zero brain activity or real analysis.  I brought no new insights to the table, nothing original, no indication that I was thinking about what we read.  But I showed I was paying attention in class, she said.  That's thinking about it.  Wow.  I don't know if the goal of my teacher was an intent to crush my spirit, but wow.

My second example is from my college days.  I was three credits short to graduate, and so I took one final class, stretching out graduation another semester.  (I now realize I should have taken two classes that last semester on the rare event that I failed a class.)  Anyway, it was some sort of political science class that I thought would be easy and interesting.  But it was more like political indoctrination, and I ended up hating the class, and during discussions, I mostly was just working on keeping my mouth shut so I could get through it.  I could sense that arguing against the indoctrination was risking being failed, and I really didn't want to risk not getting my diploma for another semester!

For the final exam, I had to write an essay.  The topic was something like "fairness in education".  The basic thrust of the essay was to parrot back the views presented in class, that equality of funding was the only way to really ensure fairness of opportunity in education to be able to allow the potential geniuses of the world the chance to better themselves to allow them to make the maximal contribution to world society.  So, my innovation that was not any sort of innovation, was to advocate a world government, and equality of funding for all children all over the world, to ensure the most fair educational environment to most greatly assist in the development of humanity.  In other words, I had to pretend to be a socialist!  I hereby admit my guilt, and let me pay my penance and make up for that essay now.
7719  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 26, 2015, 12:42:31 PM
rpietila, wait i am not done editing that post. Continue reloading the page until I have addressed every point in his post.

Being admissible in Wikipedia is not always a badge of honor. Wikipedia is often incorrect.

I will also address your post soon after.
7720  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: April 26, 2015, 12:00:08 PM
CoinCube,

That is horrendous. I give you a D grade.

You characterize increasing information content as degradation.

I can see now why you are so blinded and deluded about free markets. Your conceptualization is all wrong. More microstates doesn't imply less of anything. For example, we can get more macrostates at the human level by increasing the population. The wisdom in the Bible of "go forth and multiply" combined with the fact that every human is unique.

Entropy is the information content of a system, or in other words the minimum pieces of information required to specify the state of the system. In the digital world, it is the maximum theoretical compression of some data.

Who taught you that nonsense? At the university?

Law #2: That the quality of that energy is constantly degraded irreversibly.

The quality of the matter of the universe is constantly trending to maximum information content irreversibly.

From these laws we can derive some general principals:
1) Ordered energy -> Disorganized energy
2) High quality energy -> Low-grade energy (heat)

Low information content organization of matter -> Higher information content organization of matter

3) Order -> Disorder

Low information content -> Higher information content

4) Improbability -> Probability

Certainly few chances -> More chances

These principals outline a grim universe. At first glance they seem more compatible with a barren wasteland than a vibrant jungle.

These principals outline a beautiful universe competing to create more diversity and chances for life to prosper.

Thermodynamics demands constant and progressive degradation yet somehow we live in a world teaming with life and growth. Lets explore why.

Thermodynamics demands constant and progressive increase in the diversity of systems, i.e. higher information content, giving rise to a universe teaming with life and growth.

The Genius of Life

Life is able to increase its internal order while simultaneously satisfying thermodynamics. At first glance this appears to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Instead of disorder and death life forms order and birth. Instead of probability and cessation it does the improbable and continues. Rather than disorganized heat it forms the ordered thought and action. Life is able to do this because it is a dissipative structure. It is a structure that achieves a reproducible state operating far from thermodynamic equilibrium in an environment in which it exchanges energy and matter.

Chemists can create complex high energy molecules in reactions that would not occur naturally by coupling those reactions with others that degrade other high energy molecules in low energy ones. As long as the combination of both reactions leads to an overall higher level of entropy the laws of thermodynamics are satisfied.Life has mastered this same process with stunning majesty. By coupling its existence to reactions that increase the entropy of the universe life is able to swim upstream against the tide of entropy. Plants harvest the energy of the sun. Animals consume that same energy indirectly.

The fractal nature of life is such that high information content microstates can also be formative of lower information content macrostates without lowering the overall information content of the system thus being congruent with the irreversible trend of entropy towards maximum information content.
 
Entropy is Mixedupness

There are numerous definitions of Entropy. When talking about the mechanics of life the most useful is the one given by statistical mechanics.

Entropy is the amount of additional information needed to specify the exact physical state of a system, given its thermodynamic specification.

Entropy is a measure of the uncertainty which remains about a system after its observable macroscopic properties, such as temperature, pressure and volume, have been taken into account. For a given set of macroscopic variables, the entropy measures the degree to which the probability of the system is spread out over different possible microstates.

The simple system of four balls traveling in the same direction, has less entropy than an otherwise identical system with 4 balls traveling in random directions as it takes more information to describe the exact physical state of the second system.

Correct, except you use scary terms that deceive and I stated it more simply at the top of this post.

Entropy is not mixedupness. You are trying to misconstrue information content as being disorganized. The randomness is simply because there are more chances for diversity. The system is still optimally organized to maximize efficiency. The only way we get efficiency is by being congruent with thermodynamics.

There is no uncertainty per se. The uncertainty is only because information about the microstates has been excluded, i.e. that is the information content.

Entropy Devourers Life

All life struggles to avoid its eventual guaranteed entropic end.

The conditions of death, decay, cessation are higher entropy then the conditions of breathing, growth, and body integrity. Therefore life is always in constant danger of death able to delay it's destruction only by constant feeding. Deprived of energy for a prolonged length of time life quickly falls to the laws of thermodynamics.

You've definitely proven that you've been indoctrinated with Marxist bullshit at the university!

Life is in competition to create more diversity and information content. You made a similar error as Ray Kurzweil in that you are only looking at the body as physical system and failing to factor in the information content of the uniqueness of each individual brain; thus the resultant diversity and information content that spawns from it. You are welcome to reread my essay Information Is Alive! more carefully.

What I mean specifically is that you think the higher entropy state is returning the body back to dust, because you may suppose that dust has more information content  Huh Your simpleton mind is conflating micrograins with microstates. Dust may not have more microstates (i.e. may not need more information to describe its states) than the internal entropy of the body. Moreover (same error as Kurzweil), dust is static, non-interacting and life is dynamic (and exponential interaction via network effects and Reed's Law) thus the information required to describe life is orders and orders-of-magnitude greater. Thus death without reproduction is actually the trend that is not congruent with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

You Marxists don't seem to understand that natural function of life and renewal is already perfected by nature. It isn't in any danger, except when you Marxists think you need to save it (and then you destroy it by lowering the information content of the system).

Perhaps someone forgot to inform you that we don't live in a 3D universe (and the earth isn't flat).

I am sure you agree that entropy is dimensionless. So why did you forget that spacetime is 4D and besides the interaction of larger things via network effects (and over the time domain) is much more complex than just breaking 3D shapes into smaller parts.

You've approached entropy as a 5 year old would (except even when I was 5 I was probably already thinking about the fact that 3D shape has much less information content than time, relativity, and wave interference).

In reproduction this gives rise to a great need for fidelity. When reproducing life must protect the integrity of its information. Unless both the ability to gather energy and the ability to reproduce is successfully transmitted that branch of life will cease.

The genetic information transmitted from parent to child is not immune to entropy. Random mutation's introduce variations into genetic code. These mutations increase entropy as they increase the spread over different possible microstates. This mutation is very dangerous to life as the vast majority of mutations either have no effect or have a detrimental one. Life acts to minimize the danger by purposefully limiting this entropy. Most multicellular organisms have DNA repair enzymes that constantly repair and correct damage. Fidelity of information is thus largly maintained between generations.

Fidelity, however, can never be 100%. The environment is not static but dynamic. Life must be able to adapt in response or life will cease. An organism with 100% fidelity of reproduction would never change improve or evolve. It would stand still while its predators and competitors grew more efficient. Long term survival requires mutation and change. For this life needs entropy.

The tradeoff between fidelity and adaptability can be best thought of as the balance between search and exploitation. If replication was without entropy no mutants would arise and evolution would cease. On the other hand, evolution would also be impossible if the entropy/error rate of replication were too high (only a few mutations produce an improvement and most lead to deterioration).Increasing the entropy results in the potential sacrifice of previously acquired information in an attempt to find superior information. Life must master the deadly dance of harvesting entropy. Absorb too much and the species succumbs to mutation tumors and death. Absorb too little and the species stagnates and succumbs to more agile competitors. Life it seems walks the razors edge.

Genetic repair exists because the result is higher entropy than without it, because as you correctly point out that with unconstrained mutation the species would mutate away from acquired evolutionary functionality because the feedback loop of survival-of-the-fittest can not anneal too fast due to the roughly constant gestation and lifespan. Note that species with much shorter lifespans can mutate faster.

The key point that you are missing is the underlined one.

You attempt to paint entropy as dangerous on a microstate level without factoring in that the overall entropy is higher with the genetic repair in place.

Life isn't on any razor's edge. You Marxists (and your “primitive, post-paleozoic, hunter-gatherer” contrived false flags and FUD) are![1]

This is why I stated you are misapplying a theory about genetic microstates to the overall entropy of the society. Major, major, major error on your part!

This is what I meant upthread when I said I would need to talk about the entropic frame-of-reference. I knew you were committing this error in your thinking. I was going to address it in my proposed future essay. Any way, now you know.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c&t=73

Multicellular Organisms and Collectivism

The single celled organism is an anarchist. The multicelled organism is a collectivist.

Simpleton nonsense. Also, you may mean to say that the cells in the organism are collectivists (which is not the same as nonsense that the organism is a collectivist).

Life often tries to get bigger. Bigger things can avoid getting eaten and eat smaller things. However, as a cell increases in size its volume increases at a faster rate than its surface area. Beyond a threshold this results in an inability to transport enough materials across cellular membranes to accommodate the cellular volume.

Correct that in order to grow larger in 3D then microstates must be amalgamated in fractal structures but again focusing only on 3D size is very myopic and off-topic.

Single celled organisms therefore cannot get big. Getting big requires collectives of multicellular organisms. Cells trade independence and degrees-of-freedom in exchange for the benefits of size, specialization, and efficiency. Cells in a multicellular organism lose the freedom to independently move and reproduce and critically their survival becomes dependent on their fellow cells. In exchange they get to be a part of something big and can benefit from the development of specialization including specialized neural tissues.

This is a relevant analogy because it elucidates why my theory about the Knowledge Age says that collectivization of humans will soon become unnecessary and undesirable.

Cells can't accomplish much by themselves. An individual cell without its brethren in the body can't even produce. Thus a cell has no choice and its optimal choice is to be in a collective.

Humans in the Industrial Age were in a similar predicament. They couldn't produce much by themselves. The home (cottage industry, i.e. Luddites) production of the 1800s couldn't produce at the same low cost as factories and individuals couldn't start their own factories because there was a large upfront capital cost. Naturally this capital had to be concentrated.

Whereas production in the Knowledge Age only requires a brain and a computer. Thus humans no longer benefit much from nor need top-down control. And the exponential network effects of Reed's Law promises exponentially higher entropy once we break away from the paradigm we have now.

Not all cells toe the collective line. Some cells throw off their chains and do whatever they want. When the rebels decide they want to divide and keep dividing the process is called cancer. The body's immune system can destroy cancer cells it is able to identify. Sometimes, it succeeds and the cancer is destroyed. Other times, however, rebel cells are able to make themselves invisible to the immune systems. When that happens the cancer cells get to keep doing whatever they want... for a time.

In multicelled organisms cancer is simply the result of accumulated entropy gone wrong. Multicelled organisms like their simpler cousins need to adapt change and evolve. A species with 100% fidelity would have no cancer but it would also never change. Warning: never ever use
this argument to comfort anyone with cancer! It won't go over well.

Again attempting to misapply microstate biology to the entropy of human society is simpleton nonsense.

Civilization and Collectivism

Civilization is collective of mutually interdependent multicellular organisms.

Civilization represents the next stage of evolution beyond the multicellular organism. Like the transition from the single to the multicelled organism it arises from the specialization and resultant interdependence of the sentient organisms that comprise it.

With the onset of civilization environmental selection begins to give way to the selection of self-organization. The organization of the system begins to increase spontaneously without this increase being controlled by the environment or an otherwise external system. Civilization is a state of vastly higher potential energy. This increase in organization can be looked at objectively as a decrease in statistical entropy.

Except human organization is not a decrease in entropy. Again you are myopically focused only on 3D shape. Refer to my prior explanation on your myopia.

Collectivized society in an Industrial Age is a decrease in entropy and that is why it can't stay forever. Fortunately we now have the technology to move to the next paradigm in decentralized production.

All self-organizing systems which decrease their thermodynamic entropy must export that entropy into its surroundings. Thus civilization like the monocellular cell is a dissipative structure.Entropy in the multicelular organism produces mutations and cancer. Entropy in the higher order civilization produces rape, murder, human-trafficking, and terrorism yet allows for growth, change, and progress. In the multicelled organism cancer is suppressed by the immune system. The functional equivalent in the higher order civilization is the police.

Hahaha.  Cry That is entirely nonsense and bullshit. Since that is your worldview, it explains all your stubborn nonsense upthread.

As I already explained, this randomness is naturally constrained as necessary to maximize overall entropy and not just 3D entropy but entropy measured over every dimension including the time and network effects domains (and many other domains). There is a natural entropic maximizing reason that only about 2.5% of the population are sociopaths.

No the police don't do a damn thing. The functional equivalent of the immune system is your neighbors and their baseball bats. Remember the police never arrive to the crime on time (except in the Philippines where they are somehow always there before the crime begins  Cheesy, although I read about Civil Asset Forfeiture and other instances where this phenomenon appears to be spreading Westward at an accelerating rate  Cool)

Civilizations must change, grow and adapt or face stagnation, decay and collapse. They must maintain fidelity (stability over time) while also allowing for adaptability (growth). Self-organization to higher levels of potential energy in a self organizing system is triggered
by internal fluctuations or noise aka entropy. These process produce selectively retained ordered configurations and is the order from noise principle by Heinz von Foerster. Search and adaptability must be maximized subject to the constraint of maintaining fidelity through time and not losing the information that has already been gained. It is only through balance that optimal outcomes are achieved.

The Future

The next stage in evolution will be the transition to an interstellar species.

If we achieve that goal we will create a system of yet higher order. This will be the entity formed by the interaction of multiple interdependent interstellar civilizations. Such an creation will have a potential energy that dwarfs our current society. It will only form if we find ways to vastly improve our technology and significantly improve our current dissipative structures. These improvements will be made possible by the very entropy we seek to overcome as we make the climb from probability to improbability.


Don't assume you know how the entropy will be maximized. It could even be virtual worlds.

In summary, you are oversimplifying the concept of entropy as being one about 3D spatial order. The information content required to describer higher forms of life is not dominated by the 3D states.

Sorry. I told you that you will never win this debate. I knew already what your myopia was even before you wrote this post.
Pages: « 1 ... 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 [386] 387 388 389 390 391 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!