Economic Devastation

[TPTB_need_war]

The Knowledge Age alters the economics such that usury is no longer viable. Please read the following. I think it is fundamental that you be exposed to the specifics of this concept:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg11193804#msg11193804

After you've consumed that, ping me and I will dig up the link to the futures argument. We need futures, but they must expire as soon as margin is exhausted. We can do this with technology. Then all your complaints against them evaporate. And they are very necessary, because without hedging farmers would be destroyed by the 7 lean years (by the serendipity). See a farmer has fixed investments. Review the link above so you can gain some insight into how fixed capital inertia (a form of liability) is a fundamental generative issue.

Elimination of usury at the time when fixed capital liability was unavoidable due to lack of Knowledge Age technology put society into a Dark Age. Usury can only go away when the reasons for its demand have been vacated by technology.

Anonymous (not the female, but rpietila can surely guess who this is) wrote:
> usury can't be eliminated with force.  Different concept than "can't be
> eliminated".
> usury was eliminated through education in the Bible, in the book of 
> Bible Gateway passage: Nehemiah 5 - New International Version

[1714974584]

1714974584

[1714974584]

1714974584

[CoinCube]

But, it looks like the varying uses of the term "entropy" and "Marxism" (not to mention comments on four-letter personality types) are not really advancing us any further in discussing "Economic Devastation", and in fact the current discussion approaches that of the how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...  

*   *   *

Lately all I have seen re defending one´s self vs. an overly greedy .gov in need is the need for advanced education (TPTB) and HODLING assets like gold and BTC (from me for example).

1)  I would like to see other suggestions on what we can do as individuals to keep ourselves & families OK in the devastating storms to come.  And other than that of acquiring advanced programming skills WAY beyond me and most others.

2)  I am also interested in finding and examining SCENARIOS of Economic Devastation, and the probabilities of each and possible resolutions (at individual and perhaps (dare I suggest it) at some sort of Collective level.

I do understand that this may be kind-of a thread-jack, and if so voted, I will STFU and retire from this most interesting thread.

Ok one last quick two posts and then I really will be gone for a few days. Sometimes I think I am starting to understand Anonymint's password scrambling habits. OROBTC I agree with you that discussion of four-letter personality types does not really advance the discussion. I will avoid doing so going forward. Thank you for calling me out on that.

In terms of the recent sometimes eye glazing back and forth on entropy the reason it matters is that it has a very large impact on your #2 above. If I am correct for example then Martin Armstrongs solution of education is the right one. Also it means that Bitcoin (or something like it) may be a critical part of the solution. If TBTP is correct then Armstrong's is wasting his time as education will accomplish little or nothing and Bitcoin will become a part of the problem. Also Monero (or something like it) may be a critical part of the solution. I do not expect we will reach consensus on the entropy issue but I am sure that side discussion will wind down eventually probably due to mutual exhaustion.

I definitely agree that this thread is lacking suggestions for the individual. I would be happy to see more talk on that. I can tell you that one thing I did to was to ensure that my family was located in a city with 1) stable local finances and 2) a thriving information technology sector. If things go bad I am confident my local order will hold up longer then it will in other places. Also it significantly limits the risk that my home will be turned into a giant leaching mechanism. I can and will be hit at the federal level but at the local level there is a small buffer.
 

 

[CoinCube]

The Knowledge Age alters the economics such that usury is no longer viable. Please read the following. I think it is fundamental that you be exposed to the specifics of this concept:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg11193804#msg11193804

We can delve into it more later but I do not believe my arguments upthread are in any way incompatable with your theory of the Knowledge Age.

Conflating chaos of aggression with the chaos of productivity appears to be your error.

Here is where we do not yet have consensus. I believe your entropic theory contains the following oversimplification.

The entropic theory of knowledge states that entropy should be maximized to increase the degrees of freedom in the economy and thus maximize prosperity. I would assert that the goal is not the maximization of entropy per say but rather the maximization of the harvesting of entropy to achieve a higher order state.

The problem with Martin Armstrong's proposal of raising awareness and then the people rise up to stop the "99% target the 1%" (where the 1% becomes everybody in stages just see how every country fell into communism and/o fascism)

I would argue that Armstrong's solution is the only optimal long term answer. I agree it won't suffice for the current crisis there simply is not time and humanity is not quite smart enough. Long term, however, it is the only hope of an optimal outcome.

My emphatic point is that you are debating me on a topic I spent years thinking about and even wrote 3 essays on. And this information content topic falls right into my career vocation of computer science. So please don't feel bad if you lose this debate.

Your expertise and intellect in this area is undisputed. I also feel your papers and theories as outlined in the OP are both ingenious and largely correct.
I do believe you have made some oversimplifications in your analysis in regards to entropy and that these oversimplifications dramatically alter how one should interpret your theories.

It is these potential oversimplifications mainly in regards to entropy that are currently in dispute not the validity of your overarching theories.

As for losing... we will see about that  

[TPTB_need_war]

Efficiency and knowledge age,
Efficiency is not a capital accumulation or monetary thing, it is simple a ratio of  result / work
Example, when microsoft integrated all their various windows technologies ie evc, vc++, mfc, windows api, vb under .net microsoft inceased efficiency, every time a programmer makes a choice on a platform or technology he sacrifices dof and makes a commitment to increase efficiency. Thus communities are grown and due to network effects some technologies or platforms dominate, this domination is a result of efficiency seeking actors, so efficiency matters even in knowledge age, in some form or another,why because in order to produce anything you *have* to make choices, and the more efficient a choice the more actors will select it efectively lowering their commulative entropy

Citing special cases of localized efficiency doesn't vacate my assertion (and informal proof) that generalized, global efficiency is the maximization of entropy. Over the long-term systems self-organize (anneal) to prioritize global efficiency by eliminating Coasian barriers.

So sorry your view is too simpleton.

The generalized definition of efficiency does incorporate any domain (including capital formation) that is relevant to maximizing global entropy.

I was working on trying to solve the problem of not having to commit so tightly coupled to a platform, because I know how important this could be for scaling in the Knowledge Age. In that linked thread, I was getting deeper into the concept of the Theory of the Firm, why corporations exist and why the Knowledge Age eliminates them. Unfortunately I've had to put that on the back burner and it is very ambitious.

Ah I just bumped into my 2011 prediction on Google, which seems to be coming true. Yet another in my long list of correct conceptualizations that come to fruition.

Capital and knowledge age
If we think capital as the means of production, then in the knowledge age, knowledge and knowledge workers is the capital, essentialy threatening "capitalism", because the means of production are now free to walk off the factory! So capitalism will be reinvented in less centralized and more distributed fashion.

Bravo! You got that aspect of the concept.  

But old money will play a role too just as the landlords became rhe first capitalists, likewise the capitalists will play a role in the knowledge age.
Consider that knowledge is education, not long ago education was elites only priviledge, we may see a regression here
Consider that knowledge is data, and see the disconcerning aggregation of data into the likes of google and facebook etc
Consider that knowledge is Patents, what is the trend? Do you see many garage inventors applying or the legal costs are barrier?
It not as rosy as you think but I cannot deny its an opportunity for a new start.

Please read the "Financeability of Knowledge" section of the Rise of Knowledge essay linked from the opening post of this thread. Also understand that knowledge comes into existence serendipitously and thus it can't be centralized.

The one-world reserve currency NWO huddle of the masses will try its best to parasite and control the Knowledge Age, but will fail (and that is why I say the one-world NWO will be a eugenics death program). Nature will not allow the trend towards maximum entropy to reverse.

For example, ObamaCare is already gearing up to euthanize boomers. Obama already did it with the vet scandal. Much more of that to come.

Entropy and networks
Consider N Actors with information content of size C bits, lets see it as a variable that holds the state of each actor. So total actor entropy S=N*k*lgC. Now let us have those actors communicate (link up in a network), say 1bit channel. This means that between 2 actors a single bit is shared thus reducing the states of the reciever anď his entropy to k*lg(C-1) . From this exercise one can see that the disconected agents have max entropy, while the maximaly connected have min entropy.

Your conceptualizations are always too simpleton.

You are thinking that a connection is a flow of entropyheat, as in the concept that the probability of walking into a room with no oxygen is very unlikely because a vacuum is an unstable state and the higher entropy of distributed oxygen molecules will rush into the vacuum at the first opportunity. This was essentially CoinCube's myopia also, although (I surmise) he was already functioning at a higher level of understanding (and so if my assumption is correct, then it won't take him much effort to come to understand my perspective).

But connections between humans are not a flow of physical matter, but rather an interaction that increases the possible divergent paths of the outcomes, thus entropy increases (or it doesn't hahaha  ). For example, imagine two humans talking on the phone about possible ideas. The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

Annealing is slowly by slowly lowering temperature, how is that process which you promote increase entropy?

Black body radiation is so insignificant (except under acceleration where it is critical to phenomenon of gravity) to what is going on to maximize entropy it is not worth mentioning.

[TPTB_need_war]

The actual rebuttal cuts straight to the meat of the issue. All those random books can be described by the instructions on how to create the random generator.
(For any readers that didn't understand the above point, remember entropy is the minimum information required to describe the outcome, thus instructions on building the random generator is the compressed information content and thus the actual information content)

We can create random generators by simply tapping into the randomness of the universe, see the implementation of some chips: TRNG
Same as creating offsprings, creation doesnot imply complete knowledge.

Then you haven't created any new information content with the output of those random generators.

In short, random generators don't exist.  

(I am a Renaissance man. Expect me to make off-the-wall statements that are shockingly or surprisingly true. My greatest fear is that I will someday exhaust my creativity and then please do me the favor of shooting me. In the interim time, work and play hard.)

[TPTB_need_war]

But, it looks like the varying uses of the term "entropy" and "Marxism" (not to mention comments on four-letter personality types) are not really advancing us any further in discussing "Economic Devastation", and in fact the current discussion approaches that of the how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...  

*   *   *

Lately all I have seen re defending one´s self vs. an overly greedy .gov in need is the need for advanced education (TPTB) and HODLING assets like gold and BTC (from me for example).

1)  I would like to see other suggestions on what we can do as individuals to keep ourselves & families OK in the devastating storms to come.  And other than that of acquiring advanced programming skills WAY beyond me and most others.

2)  I am also interested in finding and examining SCENARIOS of Economic Devastation, and the probabilities of each and possible resolutions (at individual and perhaps (dare I suggest it) at some sort of Collective level.

I do understand that this may be kind-of a thread-jack, and if so voted, I will STFU and retire from this most interesting thread.

Ok one last quick two posts and then I really will be gone for a few days. Sometimes I think I am starting to understand Anonymint's password scrambling habits. OROBTC I agree with you that discussion of four-letter personality types does not really advance the discussion. I will avoid doing so going forward. Thank you for calling me out on that.

In terms of the recent sometimes eye glazing back and forth on entropy the reason it matters is that it has a very large impact on your #2 above. If I am correct for example then Martin Armstrongs solution of education is the right one. Also it means that Bitcoin (or something like it) may be a critical part of the solution. If TBTP is correct then Armstrong's is wasting his time as education will accomplish little or nothing and Bitcoin will become a part of the problem. Also Monero (or something like it) may be a critical part of the solution. I do not expect we will reach consensus on the entropy issue but I am sure that side discussion will wind down eventually probably due to mutual exhaustion.

I definitely agree that this thread is lacking suggestions for the individual. I would be happy to see more talk on that. I can tell you that one thing I did to was to ensure that my family was located in a city with 1) stable local finances and 2) a thriving information technology sector. If things go bad I am confident my local order will hold up longer then it will in other places. Also it significantly limits the risk that my home will be turned into a giant leaching mechanism. I can and will be hit at the federal level but at the local level there is a small buffer.

CoinCube had made a very astute communication to me in private some months ago wherein he argued very convincingly that he had at least until 2017 in the USA before needing to make any big changes.

I think CoinCube is correct to leverage the collective and the highest quality cities for some period of time, just as long as he doesn't wait too long and lose the opportunity to make any shifts that he wants to make later. This is why Armstrong is correct that there will be ingress into the dollar and USA as the rest of the world turns down.

The powers-that-be want a slow burn with propaganda to slide the masses into the NWO.

Thus the greatest disruption should come the soonest to those areas which are not Western mainstream and which are outlets for freedom that the powers-that-be wish to suppress.

Thus I would expect the powers-that-be to encourage a rise in threats to personal security (e.g. kidnappings, muggings, violence, paramilitarism, and other conflicts) in for example the wide open spaces in South America.

I see a slow burn of closing off all the outlets for individual freedom to funnel the mainstream masses into the cities and the NWO.

So if you play along, you can buy some time. The general thesis is that the NWO paradigm is not going to collapse overnight. It will slow burn and be juxtaposed against a rising Knowledge Age that won't assert itself entirely for some decade or more (Oxford U. predicted 47% share of job automation not be reached until 2033).

Eventually I believe that mainstream system turns into a eugenics paradigm, but it won't be there overnight. Even totalitarian, fascist Nazi Germany had to first be spawned through some 15 years of a socialist, communist Wiemar Republic. Roughly I would say the USA's Wiemar Republic began on Sept. 11, 2001. So we would be looking at some where between 2018 and 2024, before the USA turns internally violent. The turn towards overt fascism (hence they no longer even try to hide it) began on April 2013 with the Snowden revelations, but this is still in the very early stages of development towards fascist, totalitarianism.

Asia (to have a decline starting about now or 2016) will bottom by 2020 and begin to grow again. It appears this will be done in the context of a scripted fake proxy war between China and SE Asia neighbors with the USA & Japan pretending to be the antagonists. The point of this is to bring Asia into a Technocracy controlled by the global elite (the banksters) and the NWO trajectory. The economic bottoming of Asia in 2020 will coincide with a capitulation towards accepting the loss of a lot of freedoms on personal liberty, while in exchange granting the very high entropy free movement of people between all nations in Asia with the Asian Union to be launched in 2015 and gradually ramped up. For example expect the Philippines to effectively lose its bank secrecy as their banks harmonize with ASEAN norms.

All those who are buying gold and bullets, these won't even be needed (if you are in a high quality city) for some years yet and then later when you would need them, they won't be effective.

Think it out. No man is an island at least in the physical world (in the virtual world a man can be autonomous by leveraging expertise and anonymous but still not an island). If it is you defending your abode against reoccurring waves of roving paramilitaries, you have no chance no matter how many rounds of ammunition you've stockpiled. Your community is protecting you else you are toast. Ditto gold. If you community is against it, it is useless. As soon as you make one trade, word spreads you have gold and so the hunt begins to track you and mug you. The mainstream system is heading towards electronic money and outlawing all forms of physical black markets which can be easily ferreted out with stings, etc.. It simply won't be efficient to use gold to live off of.

The Knowledge Age virtual economy can easily adapt to anonymous crypto-currency. There are none of the insoluble issues as there are with gold being adopted as a currency.

So the bottom line is you should be investing in crypto-currency and not gold.

Gold should begin to rise in 2016 and you could probably safely hold it until 2017 or so, and sell out before the battle against gold intensifies. My stance is not to hold extensive stashes of gold into the tempest period of 2018+ (or when ever it begins), except for holding a small quantity of recognizeable coins for a "get out dodge" emergency stash you could use to perhaps trade for a safe passage. Gold will never again become worthy for individuals (it will remain worthy for institutions). We are entering the transition to the end for gold. Gold will probably rise to $5000 (max) but I would be a seller way before that probably on a double from $1000 to $2000 (or if luckily enough to buy the coming bottom at roughly $850 so perhaps hold for a triple if circumstances are favorable).

Gold will be worthy perhaps in high net worth cliques that agree to anonymity (or are insiders of the NWO) and use it as a physical accounting with which they can trade between other assets such as the NWO currency (if they are insiders) or anonymous crypto-currency (for the crypto-currency $billionaires perhaps). But I am not really confident that gold will be embraced by the crypto-currency $billionaires. I think they will prefer to buy businesses and code instead to hold as real assets and a basket of crypto-currencies (to counter risk of any one evaporating into thin air).

Moreover, make sure you are tax compliant. And make sure you don't fall into the upper 10% in terms of the net worth that the system knows you have. My stance is to be a nobody and be basically invisible.

So you will need to move your excess stored wealth into anonymous crypto-currency and Knowledge Age investments. I will be waiting there for you with my arms open waiting for you to make me a $billionaire (my fantasy lol).

The Knowledge Age won't destroy all stored wealth. It will destroy stored wealth that doesn't want to be actively invested. So any simple plans for investment, i.e. buy and HODL are destined to fail. You need to be able to think out what types of ventures and investments will succeed and work out the timing too. Sorry there are no shortcuts to being an investor, because you are only given that wealth if you are helping the knowledge to anneal to maximum entropy (see the Parable of the Talents in the Bible).

As for example OROBTC mentioning the thought of investing in another condo in Peru, I can't comment on the local market. I can only say that the entire world will shift radically socialist as the global economy turns down, and net worth will be targeted. Investing in the future of the developing markets seems fundamentally sound but don't know to what extent countries will diverge before they converge back towards growth.

My overriding thought is that net worth can become a dangerous liability. I am eager for anonymous crypto-currency because I don't wish to worry about the social liability my stored wealth can cause (I don't have any more stored wealth lol, so this more hypothetical for me at the moment). However, we don't yet know anonymous crypto-currency will be reliable. Thus I am more eager to invest myself into actual businesses and code in the Knowledge Age. But investing in ventures can be risky, so I can understand others will want to look for more generic investment choices. Short-term it appears buying BTC and gold at the coming final lows is a NO BRAINER.

That will provide a window of time (2 years?) to appraise developments and look for alternatives. The downside of investing in BTC is that it is not anonymous so any net worth there is going to have to be reportable to the society. Gold maybe could be done anonymously, but not forever. It might be possible to buy some gold anonymously on the coming low and cash out of anonymously in the near-term. It will vary according to each person's locale and circumstances.

It is possible to buy BTC or Monero anonymously. But it must be done very carefully.

So in summary, I say be invisible in a quality community, unless you are sure you can be entirely isolated and self-sufficient. Stockpile BTC and enjoy life, keeping an eye out for better Knowledge Age investments to diversify into but being very cautious about risk of fledgling ventures. Keeping in mind that the Knowledge Age is not only about programming, it is also any sort of entrepreneurship that incorporates mental effort as its main asset, e.g. Hoverbike.

I welcome feedback on this post. I like to see what the reaction and opinion of others.

Add: you might want to consider how your local community will adapt to the Knowledge Age. It seems perhaps we should be building virtual communities of ourselves within communities. For example, CoinCube astutely points out that his community's risk is primarily coming from the Federal level. For example, my risks in the Philippines is that I am not a citizen (still a USA citizen) and the changes coming with the rising Technocracy to be installed in Asia by the powers-that-be.

[TPTB_need_war]

The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

What you are describing is in essence the higher ordered potential energy gathered via the search through aka harvesting of entropy. It is not entropy itself.

That depends on your frame-of-reference. And then we need that deep essay I have yet to write...

...I think we will both agree we are exhausted. And the distinction you make won't really change the conclusions of where we are headed will it?

I do not currently believe distinction will change the nature of the problem much.
It has a quite large effect on the potential nature of the solution however.

Yep tired here too 

Yes feel free to publish. I won't reply however I am officially on Bitcointalk vacation

The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

What you are describing is in essence the higher ordered potential energy gathered via the search through aka harvesting of entropy. It is not entropy itself.

Let me put it another way. You want entropy to be referentially transparent, but it isn't.

You would prefer to view entropy as an agnostic soup from which order rises. But nothing in the universe is absolute. Everything is relative. Otherwise there would be an edge to the universe.

May I print this reply publicly?

[vokain]

I realized today in New Orleans that at the rate things are going, none of us should be worried that we would be staying in a (repentable) jail/Hell for too long re: contributing your love/projects

[minor-transgression]

"1)  I would like to see other suggestions on what we can do as individuals to keep ourselves & families OK in the devastating storms to come.  And other than that of acquiring advanced programming skills WAY beyond me and most others."

a. A penny saved is a penny earned. Budget everything and prepare to pare everything back to essentials.
That is much harder to do than it sounds - try dieting, for example, or going without food for 24 hours.
The mental preparation is more important than the physical act.

b. Get out of debt. Understand the difference between debt and equity.
TPTB only need two percent real return on debt to control everything, using senior secured debt.
If they get it wrong and do not get their expected return, they can crash the economy and seize
the collateral.

c. Learn to recognise the lies and misdirection. The truth is often in plain sight.

The usual disclaimers apply ... DYOR ;-)

[thaaanos]

Efficiency and knowledge age,
Efficiency is not a capital accumulation or monetary thing, it is simple a ratio of  result / work
Example, when microsoft integrated all their various windows technologies ie evc, vc++, mfc, windows api, vb under .net microsoft inceased efficiency, every time a programmer makes a choice on a platform or technology he sacrifices dof and makes a commitment to increase efficiency. Thus communities are grown and due to network effects some technologies or platforms dominate, this domination is a result of efficiency seeking actors, so efficiency matters even in knowledge age, in some form or another,why because in order to produce anything you *have* to make choices, and the more efficient a choice the more actors will select it efectively lowering their commulative entropy

Citing special cases of localized efficiency doesn't vacate my assertion (and informal proof) that generalized, global efficiency is the maximization of entropy. Over the long-term systems self-organize (anneal) to prioritize global efficiency by eliminating Coasian barriers.

So sorry your view is too simpleton.

The generalized definition of efficiency does incorporate any domain (including capital formation) that is relevant to maximizing global entropy.

I was working on trying to solve the problem of not having to commit so tightly coupled to a platform, because I know how important this could be for scaling in the Knowledge Age. In that linked thread, I was getting deeper into the concept of the Theory of the Firm, why corporations exist and why the Knowledge Age eliminates them. Unfortunately I've had to put that on the back burner and it is very ambitious.

Ah I just bumped into my 2011 prediction on Google, which seems to be coming true. Yet another in my long list of correct conceptualizations that come to fruition.

Capital and knowledge age
If we think capital as the means of production, then in the knowledge age, knowledge and knowledge workers is the capital, essentialy threatening "capitalism", because the means of production are now free to walk off the factory! So capitalism will be reinvented in less centralized and more distributed fashion.

Bravo! You got that aspect of the concept.  

But old money will play a role too just as the landlords became rhe first capitalists, likewise the capitalists will play a role in the knowledge age.
Consider that knowledge is education, not long ago education was elites only priviledge, we may see a regression here
Consider that knowledge is data, and see the disconcerning aggregation of data into the likes of google and facebook etc
Consider that knowledge is Patents, what is the trend? Do you see many garage inventors applying or the legal costs are barrier?
It not as rosy as you think but I cannot deny its an opportunity for a new start.

Please read the "Financeability of Knowledge" section of the Rise of Knowledge essay linked from the opening post of this thread. Also understand that knowledge comes into existence serendipitously and thus it can't be centralized.

The one-world reserve currency NWO huddle of the masses will try its best to parasite and control the Knowledge Age, but will fail (and that is why I say the one-world NWO will be a eugenics death program). Nature will not allow the trend towards maximum entropy to reverse.

For example, ObamaCare is already gearing up to euthanize boomers. Obama already did it with the vet scandal. Much more of that to come.

Entropy and networks
Consider N Actors with information content of size C bits, lets see it as a variable that holds the state of each actor. So total actor entropy S=N*k*lgC. Now let us have those actors communicate (link up in a network), say 1bit channel. This means that between 2 actors a single bit is shared thus reducing the states of the reciever anď his entropy to k*lg(C-1) . From this exercise one can see that the disconected agents have max entropy, while the maximaly connected have min entropy.

Your conceptualizations are always too simpleton.

You are thinking that a connection is a flow of entropyheat, as in the concept that the probability of walking into a room with no oxygen is very unlikely because a vacuum is an unstable state and the higher entropy of distributed oxygen molecules will rush into the vacuum at the first opportunity. This was essentially CoinCube's myopia also, although (I surmise) he was already functioning at a higher level of understanding (and so if my assumption is correct, then it won't take him much effort to come to understand my perspective).

But connections between humans are not a flow of physical matter, but rather an interaction that increases the possible divergent paths of the outcomes, thus entropy increases (or it doesn't hahaha  ). For example, imagine two humans talking on the phone about possible ideas. The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

Annealing is slowly by slowly lowering temperature, how is that process which you promote increase entropy?

Black body radiation is so insignificant (except under acceleration where it is critical to phenomenon of gravity) to what is going on to maximize entropy it is not worth mentioning.

As i said information is not created it is discovered, or carved out of the entropy of the universe. When 2 actors come together and communicate ultimately  its is done by sharing a state, not flow but entanglement! their later computation based on the new information doesnot increase the information content simply shifts focus, that is we asume fixed memory, or at least bounded. Now you can argue that actors can record information but still the argument holds because there is not infinite supply of memory, or that actors can coordinate to hold diffrent parts of information so as to maximize total capacity but that just shifts entropy up or down in the network hierarcy

[TPTB_need_war]

I am going to attempt to formally and analytically address the issue of potential energy vs. entropy, because I think I may have the mental acuity to do it this morning. First I need to go for a run, then I will dig into it and see if my strategy is feasible. But I will be limited to about 2 hours to expend on this, so I can't promise I can get it done in that time window.

Btw, I posted more details about my health and note I was having a groggy/foggy day yesterday which is perhaps why my last discussion with CoinCube didn't go directly to an irrefutable analytical rebuttal.

TPTB only need two percent real return on debt to control everything, using senior secured debt.
If they get it wrong and do not get their expected return, they can crash the economy and seize
the collateral.

Note Armstrong is concurring with my "solutions" post yesterday that gold will align with dollar cash (and dollar denominated stocks and real estate) as private assets. My point is the powers-that-be must destroy anonymously held, untaxed gold and move to electronic currency in order to continue to get their required usury ROI.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/04/27/gold-v-dollar-2/

The traditional mumbo jumbo is dollar up, gold down. However, we may be entering a completely new phase. Gold and the dollar may no longer be archenemies. They are actually now moving to the same side of the fence, for the common enemy is the rapidly approaching electronic money, with so many analysts at banks now calling to abolishing paper money. What is interesting is that paper money places a check and balance against central banks from moving deep into negative interest rates. At some point, more and more people will just withdraw their cash and hoard it, which has already begun.

Right now, gold enthusiasts are closely watching the statement expected for this week from the Federal Reserve policy makers on Wednesday. They are clinging to anything, looking for any clues that the Fed is becoming less likely to raise interest rates. They fear that raising interest rates will support the dollar, but there is really a lot more going on behind the curtain.

[coinits]

But according to TPTB_need_war this is her fault...

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/26/technology/revenge-porn-victim/index.html

I attributed this to OP as I thought TPTB_need_war was OP. I apologize for the error but his dumbfuckery is at an all time low. He blames victims for crimes against them.

[TPTB_need_war]

But according to OP this is her fault...

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/26/technology/revenge-porn-victim/index.html

Coinits you do realize how dumb you are? Of course you don't.

My high IQ father (former West Coast Head Attorney for Exxon and moved up higher than that) once remarked, "People think so linearly".

Do you realize what a burden it is on me to have to come back and refute all the dumb shit that dozens (if not 100s, I've lost count) of readers post when they don't understand what I understand?

Unfortunately you dumbasses will win the battle of who can write more dumbshit so that other dumbshits will follow your dumbshit.

You couldn't possibly fathom your error could you?

It is not her fault that the guy is violating her trust, but it is her fault that she trusted someone. Who is supposed to be responsible for her judgment?

What exactly do you propose to do in the anonymous age when people can upload and host photos anonymously to the internet? You won't be able to prove who is at fault. Then what do you do? Throw a hissy fit?

What was the entire point of Satoshi's miraculous Proof-of-Work invention? It solved the Byzantine General's Problem of not needing to trust untrustable 3rd parties — a decentralized trust solution.

So instead you would prefer to have a prison planet wherein you transfer the monopoly on force to a collective which will always be infested by the opportunists that want to profit on that power vacuum. You will choose to destroy the maximization of entropy in pursuit of a futile goal of abrogating individuals of their culpability for serendipity. And in your vain and futile attempt to remove nature from the universe (to reverse the irreversible trend of entropy to maximum), you enslave your dumbass Marxist selves.

Go ahead. I know I can't stop you. That is why I will create anonymous systems. So I can opt-out of your dumbass insanity.

Have fun dumbshit. This is not ad hominem. I am speaking factually.

P.S. Aren't you noticing all the pumped up propaganda now on these nude photos issue? I have seen another lady on C|Net, etc.. Don't you realize the powers-that-be are pitching this to program your dumbass brains? You fools never learn.

...his dumbfuckery is at an all time low. He blames victims for crimes against them.

Since you can't seem to grasp the overriding issue is the holistic cost of societal collapse as explained above, let me put it another way for your pee-size brain can maybe fathom.

If you go climb into the lion's den and they eat you, are we supposed to blame the lions? Is the government supposed to protect people from their own irresponsibility? And what moral hazard does that create?

So just do what ever the fuck risky stuff you want, because social insurance, welfare, and the Big Brother always has your back ass covered. Let's charge the cost of your risky choices to the collective, so we can all increase the costs and bankrupt the society. And while we are at it, let's hand the keys to some enforcers that we "trust". So then you've transferred the individual trust issue to a collective trust issue. And how does that work out every damn time over the 6000 years of recorded history.

Dumbfuckery indeed.

Do you fucking Marxists even have a brain stem?

Why fool yourselves in an excrutiatingly slow decline into eugenics and megadeath (as the State is bankrupted). Just go directly to the end game and kill nature. Drop the nuclear bomb and be done with life. That is really what you are driving towards, but like dumbass sheep you can't even see it. You only see the ass of the sheep in front of you with your linear "thinking".


P.S. the anonymity age will provide an elegant solution to above problem. She can offer an anonymous bounty for his execution. You will need to be more careful about offending people in the Knowledge Age. You won't sleep well at night if you do evil in the Knowledge Age. The more people you do evil against, the more your odds of suffering will increase. Justice indeed.

CoinCube you don't want to give individuals the power to enforce justice (surely the 97.5% can slaughter the 2.5% sociopaths)? So then you prefer JustUs instead? Hand over the keys of power to the sociopaths my friend. Enjoy your insanity.

[TPTB_need_war]

Capitalism it's not a static system, but rather a system that grows and evolves.  It starts as a multitude of small efficient businesses, and over time consolidates into a handful of gigantic economic entities. When they reach sufficient size and wealth, they purchase the politicians as they did in the US and then begin the process of harvesting the working class.  In its last stage, it collapses into a neofeudal system with a tiny handful of super wealthy, and a vast sea of serfs and slaves. The disaster you see today is just part of the normal lifecycle of capitalism.

That was true in the Industrial Age where stored monetary capital was paramount because production require large fixed capital investments and the mental assets were very insignificant portion of the costs of production.

The Knowledge Age changes this entirely. Click the link the quote post below.

You entirely ignored the entire point of my essays in the opening post of this thread.

I am getting tired of repeating this same damn concept over and over. Why can't commentators read the thread before commenting?

The Knowledge Age alters the economics:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg11193804#msg11193804

Review the link above so you can gain some insight into how fixed capital inertia (a form of liability) is a fundamental generative issue.

Elimination of ... at the time when fixed capital liability was unavoidable due to lack of Knowledge Age technology put society into a Dark Age.

[TPTB_need_war]

Monero (CryptoNote) planted by the NSA?

https://criticl.me/post/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-2292

This essay has illuminated one of the greatest flaws of altcoins — they don't share the same network thus they don't have the security-of-scale to resist 50% attacks.

Those who have paid attention know I have already wrote about what I think the solution is. It is a paradigm shift. And it will help Monero and all the altcoins.

I also don't fully trust the cryptography in CN's ring sigs, especially when combined with the theoretical combinatorial attack I presented to the Monero devs. I think we could improve on that. But it doesn't necessarily mean I wouldn't use CN as is, if nothing better was available.

[darlidada]

About responsability and judgement: in france, it seems they've chosen the path of considering the whole population as dumb as fuck.
i.e. they put people to announce the closing of the doors of each train's wagons that go to the suburbs (i think its a way to hire people from bad cities so they dont burn everything otherwise it makes NO sense, nobody is that dumb) ; in the train they make vocal announcement to tell you there are pickpockets (gypsies in reality, but they want want to discriminate) in the train and you have to CLOSE your bags ; and then on every media whenever somebody makes a nuance point he's immediately attacked as you were attacked by coinits and insulted of fascist (very annoying as they are the fascists) or racist or sexist. i think they do this because they dont think we can grasp nuance points.

whats worst is the more they keep doing this the more people get dumb

also, i wanted you to know that i used to think socialism was the way to go and the problem was just politicians, if only we could find a good one everything will be fine! now i realize its the government that is the problem. i dont think i would have ever understood that without learning about cryptocurrencies and reading your posts. how could i ? there is no other alternative that is looked at within our education system. the whole point of our education system is to JUSTIFY the present ideology.

this is also the reason i think why the only way for those that still live within the socialism paradigm is to crash and burn, though thats not even a sufficient guarantee for change. humanity crashed and burn made times during its history and every single time we made the same mistake. its like we are addicted to sucking the government tities like we sucked our mommy tities. we still are at a children stage : refusing to aknowledge our own responsability and judgement and decisions and mistakes.

thank you for showing the way

on the other hand, what do you think of buenos aires for moving short term?

PS: please keep posting your price predictions for bitcoin, you have an AMAZING track record

[coinits]

About responsability and judgement: in france, it seems they've chosen the path of considering the whole population as dumb as fuck.
i.e. they put people to announce the closing of the doors of each train's wagons that go to the suburbs (i think its a way to hire people from bad cities so they dont burn everything otherwise it makes NO sense, nobody is that dumb) ; in the train they make vocal announcement to tell you there are pickpockets (gypsies in reality, but they want want to discriminate) in the train and you have to CLOSE your bags ; and then on every media whenever somebody makes a nuance point he's immediately attacked as you were attacked by coinits and insulted of fascist (very annoying as they are the fascists) or racist or sexist. i think they do this because they dont think we can grasp nuance points.

whats worst is the more they keep doing this the more people get dumb

also, i wanted you to know that i used to think socialism was the way to go and the problem was just politicians, if only we could find a good one everything will be fine! now i realize its the government that is the problem. i dont think i would have ever understood that without learning about cryptocurrencies and reading your posts. how could i ? there is no other alternative that is looked at within our education system. the whole point of our education system is to JUSTIFY the present ideology.

this is also the reason i think why the only way for those that still live within the socialism paradigm is to crash and burn, though thats not even a sufficient guarantee for change. humanity crashed and burn made times during its history and every single time we made the same mistake. its like we are addicted to sucking the government tities like we sucked our mommy tities. we still are at a children stage : refusing to aknowledge our own responsability and judgement and decisions and mistakes.

thank you for showing the way

on the other hand, what do you think of buenos aires for moving short term?

PS: please keep posting your price predictions for bitcoin, you have an AMAZING track record

According to TPTB_need_war it was the fault of Charlie Hebo Staff that they got themselves killed. They should have known better than to go to work and let themselves get shot by crazed Muslim Extremists.

[TPTB_need_war]

According to TPTB_need_war it was the fault of Charlie Hebo Staff that they got themselves killed. They should have known better than to go to work and let themselves get shot by crazed Muslim Extremists.

Indeed. Has your generation lost common sense?

Back in my day we sort of knew if you play with hand grenades, you will be maimed.

Your generation is so fucking entitled.

Who the fuck goes working in a danger zone without adequate security? An idiot.

How much more duh! can you be.

George Carlin joked that why do those people in Hawaii who build their houses next to active volcano wonder why they have lava in the living room. 

[TPTB_need_war]

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Physics & math proof internet unstoppable, uncontrollable
Date:    Mon, April 27, 2015 10:54 pm
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <armstrongeconomics@gmail.com>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


It didn't take me 2 hours. Once my mind was fresh, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to refute this.

I was going to come at this more abstractly explaining why matter is conserved so that the universe doesn't have an edge nor collapse to infinitesimal point and then explain that the only degree-of-freedom for a non-static (non-existent) universe is increasing entropy, but let's save that for the future essay where I can tear to shreds CoinCube's popularized notion of entropy as some baseline that order draws from. For the moment I'd rather make my point more comprehensible and concise.

The meeting of the minds synergizes and much more complex possibilities spawn (new information content is spawned serendipitous that couldn't be predicted a priori by the prior information content and that is a key difference between "random" generators regurgitating information content from the environment).

What you are describing is in essence the higher ordered potential energy gathered via the search through aka harvesting of entropy. It is not entropy itself.

Reed's law says the potential increases 2^N - N - 1 thus with exponential complexity[1]. Multifurcating networks and multiplexing routers means the energy cost to provide available connection between N nodes only increases with polynomial or subexponential complexity[1]. The virtual IP network is a fully connected mesh topology, but the physical network is hub-and-spoke a.k.a. hybrid star plus bus[2] (this is gained via efficiency).

Conservation of Energy thus makes your statement impossible. ▮Q.E.D.

That slam dunks also my point about the general definition of efficiency.


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_complexity_theory#Important_complexity_classes
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_complexity#Sub-exponential_time

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_topology


P.S. this is why the internet has radically changed the economics of the universe and is ushering in the Knowledge Age. The powers-that-be can not shut off this entropic force. Impossible. Nature will route around them. Raise your fist Knowledge age people, we win. No chance we fail.

[CoinCube]

It didn't take me 2 hours. Once my mind was fresh, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to refute this.
...
Reed's law says the potential increases 2^N - N - 1 thus with exponential complexity[1]. Multifurcating networks and multiplexing routers means the energy cost to provide available connection between N nodes only increases with polynomial or subexponential complexity[1]. The virtual IP network is a fully connected mesh topology, but the physical network is hub-and-spoke a.k.a. hybrid star plus bus[2] (this is gained via efficiency).

Conservation of Energy thus makes your statement impossible. ▮Q.E.D.

That slam dunks also my point about the general definition of efficiency.

AnonyMint I can tell you only spent 5 minutes on this.

Reed's law is the unproven assertion of David P. Reed that the utility of large networks scale exponentially with the size of the network.

This so called law is obviously and intuitively wrong. It fails to acknowledge limits on the number of inbound and outbound connections a member in a group-forming network can manage. The actual maximum-value structure is much sparser than Reed's guesstimate would suggest.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/networks/metcalfes-law-is-wrong

"There are common-sense arguments that suggest Metcalfe's and Reed's laws are incorrect. For example, Reed's Law says that every new person on a network doubles its value. Adding 10 people, by this reasoning, increases its value a thousandfold. But that does not even remotely fit our general expectations of network values—a network with 50 010 people can't possibly be worth a thousand times as much as a network with 50 000 people.

At some point, adding one person would theoretically increase the network value by an amount equal to the whole world economy, and adding a few more people would make us all immeasurably rich. Clearly, this hasn't happened and is not likely to happen. So Reed's Law cannot be correct, even though its core insight—that there is value in group formation—is true.

Although you won't admit it you are essentially trying to prove the second law of thermodynamics is wrong. You have no chance of success.  If you insist on trying you need to make the argument using the math of thermodynamics not business school guesswork.

You were correct before when you agreed with me that some top down constraints are needed to ensure convergence. You should return to your prior and correct insight.

It is clear you do not have the time currently to do this topic justice. I am content to leave the matter in dispute. Let's return to it later when you can give it more attention.