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Most miners are NOT rated for operation on the "nominal" 13.8 volts common Lead-Acid batteries provide - much less the 14-15 volts that is common when the battery is CHARGING.
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Nothing uses 60F rated insulation. It doesn't EXIST.
Insulation is also rated in C not in F, and is COMMONLY 80C or 105C depending on the specific type.
I've never seen 60C for any sort of insulation in use in the last 35+ years.
Then there's Teflon, for when you need REAL high temp resistance (but it's expen$ive so it's rarely used outside of high-temp industrial gear or some Mil-Spec stuff).
I just bought a Trip-Lite 3' SJT power cable with +60C printed right on the jacket. I also just bought 250' of 10/3 from home depot with +60C right on it. I'd say it's very common in residential applications. I use 90C and 105C in commercial applications. Might depend on the area and local codes, or the type insulation used - I honestly can't remember seeing "new" 60C rated insulation EVER, just on older wiring that we were ripping out to upgrade or replace. Power cords I've not paid attention to the temp rating though, since they're not in an enclosed space commonly routed in/through/next to insulation where heat retention is a major issue - 60C rating on THOSE wouldn't be any shock to me. I would NOT say that 60C insulation is common in residential applications - I'm not sure if it's even LEGAL under the NEC and in those locations that have adopted the NEC as part of their local code requirements (most of the USA) for in-the-wall wiring. |
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TIPBarnacules Nerdgasm Verified account @Barnacules 4h4 hours ago #TechTip - If you mine for #Bitcoin, #Ethereum or any other crypto-coin make sure you setup your miner software to restart automatically as a service. Failure to do so means Microsoft Windows Update will reboot you in the middle of the night and steal all your digital gold! #FactWell now you know...  I saw that - hilarious! By the way, his "beast miner" is basically two GPUs. He'll get there. Good ol' Jerry! Wasn't he a semi-large Folding producer for a while? |
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Where are you buying new cards, guys?
I checked both newegg and microcenter.
At newegg, there are only crazy prices starting with $950-1000 for 1070 and there is literally nothing at Microcenter.
Mostly I'm not due to crazy pricing - but Newegg DOES sneak in a card restock occasionally. Just got an ASUS Turbo 1070 ti ordered today - actually saw the notification in time for a change. 8-) I'm sure they'll be out before I can order another one (limit 1 on them). |
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Out of interest, has any of you tried a riserless board with non-blower-style GPUs? Surely they're too close to eachother to work efficiently, i.e. heat cross-contamination must be terrible?...
Almost all of my 3-card FAH rigs were standard fan-type cooling. That's WHY I first started buying the Gigabyte "ITX" cards - to allow the middle card to stay at least semi-cool. Card temps WILL be quite a bit higher due to restricted airflow - even Blower cards have that issue as the airflow INTO the blower is restricted by card proximity, they just don't recirc the hot air inside a case nearly as much. Blower cards on an open air case don't do any better than fan-type cards. |
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Okay, so you really don't know but you think you do. That's dangerous. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sheetrock-UltraLight-1-2-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-Gypsum-Board-14113411708/202530243This is not fire rated sheet rock. It is for sale today at home depot. Generally, if it's 1/2" it's not fire rated, if it's 5/8" it is. That's because they add the fiber layer which is fire rated that is 1/8" thick. CPUs burn more power as temperature rises. Not a little more power but a significant amount. Enough for me to pay for mechanical cooling systems and the power required to run them. Oh, don't forget, all the fans have to speed up. So the warmer the intake air is, the more air you must move over the heatsink to cool the processors. If you double fan speed, fan power is cubed. Check the affinity laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_lawsVery few enterprise class data centers are actually using outside air cooling but yes a few are. I have at least met every large enterprise class colo developer in the US. Even when Washington state tried to force everyone to use direct outside air cooling, I presented how my design was more energy efficient and therefore meets the spirit of the law. That design is currently being built. I have won that argument in Washington now 3 times, because I can show the proof. I can also argue that all direct outside air cooling systems are vulnerable to attack. All someone has to do is shoot enough poison into the air intake to kill everyone inside. Even a smoke bomb will cause a clean agent dump and ventilation closures. That a solid $250k recovery problem. How do you cool your data center if there's too much chaff in the air at harvest time? The filters will all clog really quickly. Then you are spending more money of filters than you would have spent on a standard cooling system. That even happened to a colleague in Dallas. I wouldn't have expected there'd be much harvest in Dallas, but then I read his data. They installed a giant system that is less cost efficient than a standard cooling system. Tragic. PUE is a flawed method of measuring efficiency. I can improve the PUE of any data center by simply increasing the temperature. The rub is that I have proven that this method does not improve the efficiency of the data center, in fact it's slightly worse. You don't have believe me, it's what I get paid to do. Headlines are designed to grab attention, not to tell the whole truth. Yes, I've been on the recovery effort after a colleague suffered thermal runaway on a large VRLA battery. I've spoken with a few other colleagues who had thermal runaway destruction on large Lithium-ion batteries. One actually destroyed their power room. I don't think that's the context you were using. I've had several cooling system failures, usually a control or power failure. The room will get hot. I've never had server failure because of it. My data center in Puerto Rico just survived the recent hurricane despite utility power failure for 6 weeks. Some of my competitors did fail, so I helped them get going again, as hopefully anyone would do in during a tragedy. Fair competition does not include kicking them when they're down. Ironically, I use outside air to cool my miners. LOL. That's really because my miner rooms started really small. Now I'm looking to build larger rooms so I'm now more serious about the design, efficiency and cost. I am working through an analysis that looks promising. I think I can get the ROI reduced by 40% with my new design. I'm beginning small scale experiments now. That particular type of sheetrock is UNAVAILABLE in my area. Like I said, it might be a "local codes" type of thing that the only sheetrock I've ever seen was the fire-rated stuff. I wasn't talking thermal runaway on batteries (though that's actually MORE dangerous) but on semiconductor gear. I can't speak to chaff out of current experience - there isn't much of that around here and I'm upwind from the only close sources, and I didn't have it at all in my previous "in the edge of a city" location - but the SMOKE levels last year were bad. I was having to change the filters every week or two at MOST as a result - there are reasons I have always been a strong proponent of "positive pressure with filtered intake air". I'd have had to be doing that to some degree anyway even without the miners. Chaff shouldn't even be getting TO the filters themselves - there should be insect screening getting clogged by that stuff instead, just make a point of daily inspection during harvest season and cleanout as needed. You also pretty much have to be directly downwind and usually adjacent to a farm field that is being harvested for it to be a noticeable issue (based on when I was growing up in a place surrounded by farms), and that's normally going to be a week OR LESS out of the year. The "poison" argument is serious strawman. Fan power draw isn't the cube of fan speed, but it's not linear. Falls somewhere inbetween, based on the fan curves I've seen from manufacturers. Academic point though in the servers I've used as the case fans weren't set up for PWM at all and ran at 100% all the time anyway. I do grant they were "low end" server designs. As it happens, in the place I'm in right now, I CAN'T get enough "massive airflow" to do most of the cooling, except in mid-winter - the evap units I have are doing most of the work, and are certainly more efficient than any mechanical A/C unit ever dreamed of being to date. Don't believe the "change every 3 months" claims about the media - if you demineralize the water, they can easily go a year and I had one set still working fairly well after almost 2 years of near-continuous usage (I just replaced them last week in a unit I bought in May of 2016) even on aspen media. |
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hi guys, just a quick question
how much did you pay for your asus b250 mining expert motherboard ?
Right now they are selling for 400$ on amazon, is that fair ?
Not even close. $150 appx is the MSRP, and I paid a hair under that for mine back before the current shortages hit. |
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I'd guess that they were running the card at full rated TDP to get those hashrates - 470 is pretty normal for a "high wattage" 1070 (the GPU in this card is a 1070 on core count) or a well-optimised with very good memory "standard wattage" 1070.
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M3 is closer to 10A at 220v. And then it's advisable to not go over 80% of your rated capacity. That's for individual circuits, but I imagine it's the same for a whole panel.
The PANEL is often rated a bit higher, but the main breaker and the intake wiring tend to not be. BREAKERS also have to be heat derated, not just load derated - there were times my last summer in Iowa that I had "15 A" breakers tripping with less than 10 amps of load on them due to the breaker panel being in a warm part of the home. |
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I have 650W and 700W supplies who stop working when mining with 2 1080ti's on 100% power limit without other systems (no hdd/cpu/mobo).
Get 750W or more, gold or better.
.....I know what all of you are saying. I wouldn't be mining at 100% power limit. More like 75%, ~185W per card. 185W 185W 100W+ --------- 470W...... It's not always like this. Take a look at the PSU's Label, the 12v rail (yellow) was indicated with 2 wattage. The 1st one would be for the 4Pin Molex, sata, processor and MotherBoard 12volts. The Second was for the 6Pin or 8Pin Connectors. Although, cheap and substandard power supplies does not have this kind of feature. Getting the total power consumption of all the component wasn't the correct formula.My Gaming Rig PSU for example, the label said 12v max 100W and another 12v max 350W. The 350W was allotted only for the GPU's supplementary Power. This is where you will base on how many cards you can power. A different scenario when you're using a 4pin Molex to 8/6-pin Adapter. It will get its power from the other rail. Seasonic Prime power supplies are a single-rail design, there is no issue with "split rails" like on the CHEAP power supply you are talking about. For that matter, every power supply that Seasonic has made and sold under it's own name for YEARS have been of the "big single +12V rail, then convert the OTHER voltages FROM that big +12V rail" design. EVGA SC 1080 ti cards should be making quite a bit more than $1-2 a day net after electric right now via Nicehash - a quick check on whattomine shows Nicehash best algorithm listed on a single 1080 ti having a NET PROFIT (at my very low electric cost) of about $8/day if running it for high hashrate. To MrNice9uy: OF COURSE your core clock speeds drop when you lower the TDP - boost clock is limited by several factors, the biggest one of them is the power available to run the card and GPU on. It also drops temps, as the card doesn't have as much power to dissipate, IF the fans are set at a "fixed" speed - will still drop even on a "fan curve" but not as much since the fans will slow down some. The reasons a lot of us set the TDP lower are multiple: 1) Better efficiency, so we can run MORE cards on the same amount of power and end up generating more coin per watt. Mostly applies to folks that are at or close to their power limit for their mining area, or to folks with VERY VERY HIGH electric rates. 1080 ti in specific, 250 watt TDP MIGHT genrerate as high as 780 sol/s on a very good cooling card like an Aorus, but at 150 watt TDP the same card still generates around 620 - drop the power 40% only lose 20% income. Cards with lesser cooling will lose less hashrate, as they will still probably manage the 620 "low power" hashrate but WON'T manage the 780 at high power. 2) Lower temperatures, for better lifetime of the card and the fans on it. 3) Some folks mine in areas it gets HOT AND HUMID in the summer, at which point they HAVE to drop the TDP to get the card to stay cool enough to run at all or to avoid temp-limit throttling. It's a bad idea to assume standard "mechanical" Air Conditioning as that stuff adds 30-40% to your ELECTRIC USAGE to keep your rigs cool. In my case, it's also due to infrastructure limitations - the place I'm in has a lot of standard 117 VAC 15 amp "duplex" outlets, but I'm not allowed to "rewire" the place, so building rigs that can run at 6 amps draw using 5 1070 ti cards set for EFFICIENT mining allows me to make the best usage of the available power without pushing the wiring past the 80% derate for 24/7 operation that the NEC requires for SAFETY reasons. |
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The 1000 provides more power - but has a junk sleeve-bearing type fan that is NOT good for longevity at high temperature and load levels like a mining-used power supply will normally see.
IMO if you can find one go for the EVGA G2 1000 or the P2 equivilent, or the 850 versions, depending on how much power your rig actually needs.
Sorry for bumping the old thread. I've just ordered a couple of EVGA G3 1000W units and was researching them (had to order first cause they go out of stock very fast, and actually were sold out within an hour after I ordered), this thread is on one of the first pages on google when searching for "evga g3 1000w mining", so I thought it might be better to just post here instead of opening another thread. Could you please elaborate on "junk sleeve-bearing type fan that is NOT good for longevity" — are they really that bad? The reviews I've read said they're not typical sleeve-bearing fans, tom's hardware lists the fan as "EVGA H1282412H (12V, 0.35A, 2170 RPM, Hydro Dynamic Bearing". And then there's 10 year warranty.. Did you have bad experience with them? How long did they last? "Hydro Dynamic Bearing" is a fancy name for a sleeve-type bearing that has one or more extra grooves in the bearing or the shaft to help lubricate it better. The original version of this was called a "rifle bearing" but the folks that created that version patented it, so alternatives have had to come up with different names and slightly different details in the implamentation to work around the patent. The ISSUE is that all such bearings require lubrication to work at all, and that when the SEALS wear enough to let the lubricant wear out, the fan very quickly fails. The "improved bearing" doesn't MATTER at that point. Ball bearing fans will keep running for YEARS in most cases even with no lubricant at all, some are designed to not use lubricant in the first place. They also tend to be designed to handle higher temperatures - many of those "hydro dynamic" bearing fan designs are lifetime rated at 40 C, which is on the COOL side for a lot of mining setups - ball bearing fan lifetimes are commonly tested at 50C which is quite warm. When those fluid hydrodynamic fans get tested at the higher temp, the lifespan gets a LOT shorter, as the extra heat is bad for the seals (which are usually a synthetic rubber of some sort). I have never had ANY sort of "sleeve bearing fan" design survive 2 years in 24/7 usage in a computer or power supply. More commonly they fail in less than ONE year - but to be fair, most of THOSE failures were on straight-up sleeve bearing fans not the "fancy name supposed to be better" ones. These "higher quality" fans might IN THEORY last longer, but I'd bet they don't make it anywhere near to the warrenttee timeframe in 24/7 high load on the power supply usage. |
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QuintLeo,
Have you what OC settings are you running on your 1070ti rig? I am following your original posted settings of 108w/+200 core/+700 mem. I am getting 4.4 Sol/w avg. on DSTM 5.7 in SMOS.
Original post was actually 106 watts - all of my 1070 ti cards right now are set in the 104-106 range to allow the rig to hit my "6 amp draw" target. Anywhere from 100 to 110 watts has given very similar efficiency, though 104 *seems* to be the sweet spot by a hair. +200 +700 has stood up so far as "best" for the clock settings - higher = unstable rig, lower loses a little hashrate. Keep in mind that my sample size is still pretty small - a few EVGA SC models and one Zotec Mini, though I DID just get a MSI Turbo card in that will be going into my next "rig rebuild" project probably tomorrow. To be picky, none of my rigs at this point are "pure" 1070 ti rigs - I've been converting existing rigs and using those cards IN ADDITION TO the small number of 1070 ti cards I've been able to get to date (just managed to sneak in an order for an ASUS blower card in on Newegg today). (edit) make that +200 +1400 for LINUX usage, recent testing has shown that LINUX works with "effective" clock rates on memory where Afterburner works with "base" clock rates. Still don't have any "pure" 1070 ti rigs yet, but I'm getting closer as I work through my "reconfigure" project. |
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When you buy/mine or earn crypto right now, you're supposed to be keeping it for the future.
You ASSUME everyone can afford to do so. Also a bad assumption for miners, we're probably bettter off investing it in more gear to make MORE bitcoin in the future. ASSUMING that cryptocoins will always go up in value is a VERY HIGH RISK assumption, they've collapsed before and I won't be shocked at all if it happens again. We worry about BTC/USD because ALMOST OTHER COINS have to be exchanged to BTC (or ETH or LTC or BitmainCrapHome coin) before you CAN exchange it to fiat - unless you know of an exchange that exchanges other coins to FIAT directly that I'm not aware of. |
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1070 ti is more efficient than the best 1070 cards on equihash when set up for max efficiency IME - I have yet to see any 1070 beat 4.3, but the 1070 ti can do 4.5+ easily.
Occasional 1080 cards can argue the point with the 1070 ti, but most are little if any better than a 1070 when both are set for max efficiency, and the 1080 ti seems to be in the same range as the 1070 and 1080.
1060 - don't have any but haven't been impressed with the efficiency numbers I HAVE seen out of those, but it seems like nobody tries to set those for max efficiency.
I'm still finding the reported P104-100 mining card reported ETH hashrates VERY hard to believe - I just can't see how a card with the SAME memory type and speed (half the size don't MATTER) can manage to pull 50% higher hashrate, even if they DID optimize the timing straps for mining.
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The Chicken Coop shows a major overall efficiency gain though versus conventional centers - otherwise they would have stopped building them.
The servers use a LITTLE more power when running warmer, but not nearly as much as A/C was using to cool with.
I've never seen sheet rock that was not fire rated - didn't know it existed.
I do know the difference between "fire rated" and "fireproof" - hour(s) vs more-or-less forever. 9-)
I don't work construction, but I've worked with enough such folks and had enough family that did that I can sometimes hum the tune (electrician excepted, I HAVE worked as a union-trained journeyman electrician in the past).
Perhaps the suppliers I've worked with didn't bother with the non-fire-rated stuff due to "local area" code requirements.
I've also worked with concrete board - nice stuff in it's way but kind of a pain to make holes in, and still "fire rated" not "fireproof".
80F is what I target for my intake "cool aisle" - if you can dress for it it's comfortable, but if you have to wear "business casual" it's definitely on the warm side.
I'm not going to ask if you've ever encountered "thermal runaway". 9-)
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Nothing uses 60F rated insulation. It doesn't EXIST.
Insulation is also rated in C not in F, and is COMMONLY 80C or 105C depending on the specific type.
I've never seen 60C for any sort of insulation in use in the last 35+ years.
Then there's Teflon, for when you need REAL high temp resistance (but it's expen$ive so it's rarely used outside of high-temp industrial gear or some Mil-Spec stuff).
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1 x PCI riser 30w
1 x PCI riser 30w
PCI risers use that much power?  PCI-E risers can use 80+ watts - but most of that is feeding the GPU via the PCI-E bus power connections, it's NOT "in addition" to the actual GPU power. The riser ITSELF might use as much as 20 watts but more likely 5-10 in the "voltage conversion" circuitry when running at full load. |
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You can spread them out.
I have 3 on A 3 on B on my rig right now, with 2 PS
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So since I have a 200a box, I have 200a? I just don't want to assume anything.
If the MAIN BREAKER is 200 amp, you should have 200 amp service - and the panel itself is probably rated somewhat higher. For mining use, derate that to 160 amps (20%) in accordance to the NEC for "continuous duty" usage - though that only applies to the power the miners are using, not the rest of your household usage. |
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Mintcell does sell via NewEgg - not sure on how many different items, but definitely their v008 "3 way power" risers in various sized "packs". |
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