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81  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Once again, Holy difficulty jump, Batman!!!! on: October 23, 2013, 02:52:04 PM
And people complain because they are losing money......never ceases to amaze.  If you didn't see this coming, you have no one to blame but yourself. It has been covered extensively for months..(almost a year at this point) that this would happen.

The real kick in the teeth is that people have been waiting for many months (or over a year) for hardware that was promised to have shipped long ago - when it was going to be worth something!  This difficulty rise is just pouring salt in the wounds for many people...

Alas, the ability to print money is relegated to the rich yet again...  go figure.

Another way of looking at that is it was THEFT. A company had produced the unit, mined with it and then shipped 12 months late by any definition that is theft.
I think that it is everything but not theft. It should be fraud. They use the money of the customers to mine bitcoins, they do not communicate on a trustworthy base (they throw smoke grenades all the time) and eventually, when the mining devices are not cost-sufficient anymore in regions where electricity does cost something, they ship it, having been able to consumate all financial benefits but still giving the customer all the risks.

Fraud. Coldly calculated, they tell customers false facts (those facts are primarily for preventing the customer to withdraw their order). Unfortunately, they are still given a forum and opportunity to make advertising on bitcointalk.org - but still i understand what implications exist when locking out particular corporates based on accusations and not real, solid jurisdictions. But after seeing the behaviour of certain BFL people, i am pretty sure, that it will not take too long until the legal jackhammer will hit BFL.

Nicely said, but they already make tons of money which they can just close down the company and run away and its pretty hard to hit them legally cause its Bitcoin.

Oh, thanks for the flowers.

---- Care, Offtopic: BFL Rant following ----
What is needed is a change on the mining-producer-field. BUT: it is almost impossible for decent producers to make a market entry. Why is that so?

To produce devices, you need to have a starting capital of some millions. Nobody would give this capital as a private person, because why would you invest millions of your own money in a high-risk field?  U need to get an investor - that most likely will not give his capital for a production of devices that are used solely for the mining of a currency that might completely vanish in the next weeks/months.

So, the preorder-technique is an important feature, because the customer takes solely the risks of bitcoin crashing, destruction of the hardware etc. But the customer may also take the chances, he is able to mine bitcoins and , given the case that the BTC price rises, he will hit a decent profit.

So, go to hardware producers and talk to them. They will be able to give you very, very vague (and certainly not future-promising) specs, which will most likely not motivate investors.

You are one of an ever growing number of hardware producers, you have to make a clear, open communication, otherwise you are not trustworthy. So you will communicate to you customers that the "time to shipment" is going to be 12-18 months. Who of you guys would order?
Furthermore, BFL actually ships some devices, allowing them to make small development leaps and therefor offer better specfications. Althoug we are using words like "vaporware" - do you think, the classic potential customer can decide between vaporware specifics and realistic specifics from trustworthy producers?

Keep in mind we are talking about a german producer, and in Germany, due to a decent law, you have to have a deposit guarantee - meaning if a customer pays 200 Euros for a product that is NOT EXISTENT (preorder), you also have to deposit the same amount, with factor 1,1 - 1,4 (in the  worst case, 1.4*200 which is 280 Euros.) So you would have a legal guarantee that your deposited money is not being embezzled.

Coming back to what BFL does: they take the customer's money and have the benefits (mining BTC all the time..... since they are the producers, they have the shortest "time to market" any miner could have). The behaviour is, being screened under several perspectives, just SNAFU:

- Legal: Fraud. The real facts and communicated facts do not match.
- Economical: Ripoff. The customer takes the risk, the corporate takes the gain. Ever heard of a Win Win Situation?`
- Sustainability = near 0. I mean Lol, did they already hear about it?
- Customer Relationship Management: In Munich we have a saying: Every day, a stupid person walks through the Sendlinger Tor (famous place in Munich) - you just have to find them. Looks like this is the standard approach of BFL. Why even bother with the current changing behaviour of customers that obviously happens (The market makes his own decisions and products - HELLO we talk about a crowd-created currency.....)? Bitcoin does in my eyes gives so much more potential, let alone speak of the target audience.
- Marketing: Just Great. Best thing you can do is take a VERY important person of your corporate (like COO) and then make him insult your target audience that brings up JUSTIFIED arguments. Always works.

I hope i do not get banned for off-topic ranting - but the rant is strong in me - sorry for that.
82  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Once again, Holy difficulty jump, Batman!!!! on: October 23, 2013, 08:47:29 AM
And people complain because they are losing money......never ceases to amaze.  If you didn't see this coming, you have no one to blame but yourself. It has been covered extensively for months..(almost a year at this point) that this would happen.

The real kick in the teeth is that people have been waiting for many months (or over a year) for hardware that was promised to have shipped long ago - when it was going to be worth something!  This difficulty rise is just pouring salt in the wounds for many people...

Alas, the ability to print money is relegated to the rich yet again...  go figure.

Another way of looking at that is it was THEFT. A company had produced the unit, mined with it and then shipped 12 months late by any definition that is theft.
I think that it is everything but not theft. It should be fraud. They use the money of the customers to mine bitcoins, they do not communicate on a trustworthy base (they throw smoke grenades all the time) and eventually, when the mining devices are not cost-sufficient anymore in regions where electricity does cost something, they ship it, having been able to consumate all financial benefits but still giving the customer all the risks.

Fraud. Coldly calculated, they tell customers false facts (those facts are primarily for preventing the customer to withdraw their order). Unfortunately, they are still given a forum and opportunity to make advertising on bitcointalk.org - but still i understand what implications exist when locking out particular corporates based on accusations and not real, solid jurisdictions. But after seeing the behaviour of certain BFL people, i am pretty sure, that it will not take too long until the legal jackhammer will hit BFL.
83  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Once again, Holy difficulty jump, Batman!!!! on: October 22, 2013, 02:41:44 PM
Maybe we can aggree on a certain increase of difficulty / month, given in %?

I think it is 80-120%.

What do you think?

For whoever is interested in a percentual growth of Difficulty:

I think we had 60-80%, in the last few month the percentual increase was about 80-120%.

The current increase (l30d) is 138 %.

Mining with "ordinary" (everything except latest rigs that heavily bring in ROI) devices in central Europe is a joke. The increasing difficulty suggests that the bitcoin can possibly not climb that high that mining would be something that could be done by a broad audience of users.


84  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Exchange gap closing? mtgox/coinbase/bitstamp on: October 22, 2013, 12:12:32 PM

I think it's this.  The price just went up too damn fast... Gox is still having withdrawal "problems" (denials is a better word). 

CampBX is pretty good too, for me: I just withdrew a few hundred dollars yesterday at ~2 and it got here today.

Hm yes. They have some legal problems with CoinLab (we all remember the sueing that goes back and forth), they seem to have missing licences, they seem to have problems with US authorities (locked down accounts) etc. Whatever. At least an official statement would be nice.

At the current situation, storing EUR or $ on emptygox accounts is a big risk. Same for all other exchanges that are lacking legal alignments, such as bitstamp (as far as i could see they do not seem to have legal alignment). Even Coinbase does not seem to be a trustworthy alternative for the storing as bitcoins, this would require a working SMS Gateway...
85  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Exchange gap closing? mtgox/coinbase/bitstamp on: October 22, 2013, 09:53:16 AM
yepyep.

Price changes are of too high frequency, we broke through the corridor and now it is just time to hoooold again Wink.

in my eyes, the difference gets lesser (maybe 12$), also it seems to be that emptygox still leads the price (rising quite fast on emptygox, bitstamp price trying to come after but it takes some minutes, the difference was at 5$ for a short period of time)

86  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Once again, Holy difficulty jump, Batman!!!! on: October 18, 2013, 11:25:18 AM
Maybe we can aggree on a certain increase of difficulty / month, given in %?

I think it is 80-120%.

What do you think?
87  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regulation of Bitcoin and how Bitcoin can become corrupted on: October 18, 2013, 09:40:28 AM

...

The power is within us. It always has been.


Great speech. Unfortunatelly, the history is written by the sword on the man's flesh, not by the pen on the paper.

That is why we read historybooks that are written by scars on man's flesh? Smiley

I would rephrase that as "history is written by the pen on paper, but actually he writes what the armed man behind the writer tells him" or something like that
88  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Best chart site for BTC + altcoins? on: October 18, 2013, 08:50:21 AM
Is there any way to get a chart from btc-e.com that's longer than 24 hours?

mmmmmmmmmmmhyes

you need to go to bitcoincharts.com, open the graph for btc-e, choose "all data" as time period, and load raw data.

take this data and throw it in excel/openoffice and do the number crunching.

seems to be the only reliable way to crunch some numbers in the past
89  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX on: October 11, 2013, 08:42:38 AM

-100 for quoting O'Reilly.

World Health Organisation:

Global Deaths:

Tobacco           5.1 million
Alcohol             2.25 million
Illegal Drugs      250,000


LOL - quoting o'reillly as a source!?  hilarious!

What about Quoting the ORLY owl?



Btw: Who of u guys would buy a Tshirt that only has the FBI Seized BTC Wallet ID as PrintOn? Cheesy

90  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Idealist or Bitcoin Entrepreneur ? on: September 26, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
definitely both. I can be idealistic and use this trait as entrepreneurial USP (unique selling proposition).

Its about time the scamming stops - does not matter if we talk about minig device producers, exchange sites or pool maintainers
91  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [FAILED]Butterfly Labs 30 day countdown to the end of September on: September 25, 2013, 11:43:02 AM


just to clarify: Is Inaba (the Dance Monkey Guy) really someone from BFL? Or just some Troll?

Please be someone from BFL...* hope* ^^

Inaba is BFL_Josh and he is the COO of BF Labs.

Thanks.
Is it the missing common sense or is it missing understanding of CRM (customer relationship management) ?
92  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I Wish Banks Would Curl Up and Die on: September 25, 2013, 10:37:30 AM
I wish... Banks could give more interest
I wish... Banks could give me more credits
I wish... Banks Would Curl Up and Die

93  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [FAILED]Butterfly Labs 30 day countdown to the end of September on: September 25, 2013, 10:27:23 AM
Dance little monkeys, dance!

Has anyone ever told you you should probably just shut up and delete your account?

Networth to humanity -1000

Heyhey,

just to clarify: Is Inaba (the Dance Monkey Guy) really someone from BFL? Or just some Troll?

Please be someone from BFL...* hope* ^^

my two cents:

In an industry branch that has just created itself - where the time to market decides (or even, the fact "do i get the device shipped this month or next month?") whether you get your money back or you have to take losses, and there is a corporate that obviously earns a hell of a money by holding back and using those devices...

I cant think of any reasons why the corporate should not get sued by multiple customers - and then smacked down. Or is it MERICA, the country of unlimited opportunitites?
94  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What other complex calculations can Bitcoin hashing power be use for? on: September 18, 2013, 01:25:10 PM
If its an FPGA, it might also be good for:

- creating rainbow tables (pre-bruteforcing)
- monte-carlo-simulations
- some other bruteforcing stuff =)
 
If its an ASIC, as my pre-posters already mentioned, its mainly producting heat. And its not only SHA256, its SHA256 twice Wink
95  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Whitelist Requests (Want out of here?) on: August 30, 2013, 01:31:04 PM
heyhey,

anotherone joins the scrum!

By the way i almost lost my sanity why i could not post in this forum. I suggest to make some yellow/red/pink whatever banner that directly tells people when registering.

*waiting for 4 hours now* cant wait to join the discussions Smiley
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