Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?
There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,
It is best to get direct from manufactuer if buying in bulk. Most EU sellers add vat to your price so paying a lot. If you are a true business and can get part of vat back your much better to order direct (I think). Can I ask I see a lot of equations with 0 cost on electricity. What is your electricity with running in UK? There are not a lot of miners there. Hi, if you read back we have a deal with a large factory here in the UK they are supplying us with the location and electricity for the venture. at the moment buisness rates for electricity in the uk are the following.. small business 15,000 to 25,000 kWh 8.68p/kWh unit price with a standing charge of 23.7p/day (£86.51 annually) 9.07p/kWh and 24.23p/day (£88.44) 9.33p/kWh and 21.21p/day (£77.42) 9.03p/kWh and 23.61p/day (£86.18) 9.89p/kWh and 22.46p/day (£81.98) 9.58p/kWh and 21.28p/day (£78.77) Depending on the supplyer this is typical for a small to medium sized buisness. Most larger buisnes's pay around the 2.7p/kWh to around the 3.0p/kWh. depending on who the supplyer is there is a standing chargy per day of between 29 and 35p per day..these rates are if you draw more than 100,000 kWh each year... this is last years gov.uk advice to the energy markets. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415778/qep_mar_15.pdfhere is a good calulator for UK power prices. but you must also factor in this is for home useage so price is very high, At the moment the factory spends around £36k on electric each month. I do not have the figures for there useage or draw from the grid to hand but I will post them when I have access to them again.. So for us we are in a good position here. We only have to outlay for the equipment, security, and day to day running of the site thanks to a great deal we struck with the owner of the company. Thanks. Scottish Security. |
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Don't forget if you are running it as a business (as you would need to to be able to reclaim the VAT) then you need to allow for all the associated running costs of a business (accounting, tax returns, etc.) and presumably corporation tax will be payable on any profits.
As an aside I'd love to see the annual return for a company like the one you are describing ...
They also have a LOT they can right off the first year. With one time fees like PSU's, Electrical, Racks, Cooling, etc. They have quite the write off on taxes I would guess. And it is legitimate as it is a cost. Second tax year I would expect right off's to be much smaller. I would agree though I would love to see a mining company this size profit. But it is going to be going up against some heavy hitters. Hi, yes there would be some costs we can claim back the VAT on, and write off many things. We have contacted a tax and vat specialist to advise us on these matters, Don't want to have HMRC knocking on the door asking for a big bag of cash somewhere down the line so need to make 100% sure everything is fully documented, Thanks. |
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I guess the quickest way to sacrifice your privacy and identity is to signup for this kind of service. How do you know this is not some kind of data collection service? Can you really be that hard pressed for money? I do not think it is a good idea to do this... you might get $10 now, but you might get hacked tomorrow. Sorry OP but people need to know that phishing sites and data collection sites does exist and they are a threat to your privacy. We cannot simply rely on a newbie account {possible sock puppet} validating the legitimacy of the site.  Hi mate, I hope you are not referring to me as a "sock puppet" I have posted links to the owners profiles on linkedin and they are also on bloomberg.. which would be a first if it was a phisihng or scam attempt. I run my own security company. I do penetration testing and web security Offsec certified OSCP OSCE OSEE. here is my threads and links. http://scottishsecurity.nethttps://facebook.com/ScottishSechttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1436257.0I think this is just a guy trying to make some money for his study.. But by all means do checks by yourself. Please note I am not affiliated with the OP or the site.. Thanks Scottish Security.. Ps good luck op and i think you made the right choice upping the payout.. was rather low for the effort. |
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Even if the pay is increased, but you are asking for the personal information.
Please you should be careful while submitting this.
This guy dose not own the site.. he is only wanting referals. Ive done much digging on this compnay and they are a reputable compnay but yes you are also right to say any personal info must be treated with care.. |
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Don't forget if you are running it as a business (as you would need to to be able to reclaim the VAT) then you need to allow for all the associated running costs of a business (accounting, tax returns, etc.) and presumably corporation tax will be payable on any profits.
As an aside I'd love to see the annual return for a company like the one you are describing ...
Thanks, We have a outside company lined up to deal with the tax affairs. We already have a company register with company's house for our part of the business.. As we are not part of the main factory and out income is no where near what there income is then I think we should be ok. Threshold for VAT is 75k in the UK. which we are already registered. corporation tax rates for 2016 Small profits rate (companies with profits under £300,000) Main rate (companies with profits over £300,000 Main rate (all profits except ring fence profits) 20% |
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0 - Green alll the way.. and betting on the fobt's is more like playing a fruit machine.. hang about the bookies all day watching the old guys feed the machines all day by about 3pm its paytime  |
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I actually thought there would have been much more people hosting/using faucets but it doesn't seem that way.
I hope more people are interested in this idea!
Hi, I think many people are now a bit wary of faucets. a while back people were using explout kits on them to hook users into botnets. Hence the market became a bit tainted.. There are some good establised faucets like epay.info and faucetbox. But I do like your idea and I think it has some weight behind it. Like I said Ill keep a keen eye on the and if you need any help you know were we are.. Scottish Security |
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Thanks, I will have a look see if i can find it, I would say i'm more of a "real world" learner than "movies" Thank you all for the insight you have all provided, It has given me a 20+ question sheet to go away and work out the next plan of action. I am meeting today with the compnay and will put all what has been presented to me to them and see what route we should go down. Thanks Scottish Security http://scottishsecurity.nethttps://facebook.com/ScottishSec |
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I appoligise. I did make a mistake..its late here. 2am! need coffee!
I entered for 10 miners at 9500.
thats where the figures came from.. under the assumption of 0 rate import.
Hash Rate (GH/s):70000.00
Power (Watts): 1200w
Power Cost ($/kWh): £0.00
Pool Fees %: £0.00
Bitcoin Difficulty: 178678307671.68800
Block Reward: 25
Bitcoin to Dollar (USD):426.900000
Hardware Costs (USD): $9500
Days to generate one block mining solo: 126.89 Day(s)
Days to generate one BTC: 5.08 Day(s)
Days to break even: 112.95 Day(s)
you are correct in saying that changes after the halfing.
thanks for pointing this out to me,
So with the correct 20 miners (rather than 10), the cost and break even point will double to about 245 days. This ignores VAT and Halving. I believe you are correct. like I said at the start we are here to learn and take advice, Possibly S6 S7 are not the right miners for us and we should hold out and see what bitfury come out with as previously advised. Thank you for pointing this out to me, SS |
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OK you seem to have ignored my previous two posts so here's my final advice.....
You are way too late to get into Mining, even with your pretend free electricity.
RichBC, I think you've completely missed the key point: (think he just wants to say he has a BTC farm in his factory)
This Bitcoin farm is getting build to facilitate a better industrial property sale. It is kind of like putting a fresh coat of paint on a house before sale. Even if it creates 100% loss it is a tax write-off. Whatever that factory builds or welds, it is getting prepared for a profitable sale. There's a good momentum on the real estate (property) market in the UK now. I've heard that in London other security/watchmen/guards companies getting free electricity in unoccupied buildings on the following conditions: 1) keep the squatters out 2) keep the light on 3) keep the human and car traffic on so that the property looks like it is busy/occupied 4) don't violate any municipal safety codes. It is all in preparation for a "flip". Please learn the estate agent speak. Hi, I know for fact that there is no intention of "flipping" the buisness or factory.. Infact they recently signed a deal worth almost 20 million with a company in the far east. unfortunaly I am unable to say what they produce or where they are located for obvious reasons. As for security companys yes I have heard of this, and it happens a lot more than you would think, But in this country right now if you have a source of free electricity most people are opting for weed farms. (even though they are 100% illegal here) thats where the "big guns" are making there serious money.. I know there is no intention of the factory being sold, I have known the owner for 18 years and watched him build it from the ground up. So I would be very very surprised if something like this was on the cards.. Thanks Man, it is a standard price negotiation strategy. There was even a feature film (can't recall the title) explaining all this on the example of Olympia and York redeveloping Canary Wharf, which was industrial area turned into office/residential spaces. More recently estate agents invested into Jason Statham's movie Hummingbird/Redemption to create traffic around some rather underprices locations in London to spruce them up for sale. And quite successfully. If somebody knows London and watches the movie they can recognize the location where Bitcoins were mined (light industrial use?) and later on the property was sold. Obviously, I don't know neither the actual location nor the persons involved. But this is a speculation subforum, and I can recognize speculator's hand when I see one. Bitcoin has this great advantage (compared to anything expressly illegal) that no real guns are required to defend them and the investment amounts are comparatively small. That is a very very intersting theory and I will be looking into that more. But you are very far from the path we are going down.. It has nothing to do with any kind of re-generation or selling. to be honest in london if there was serious money involved then yes there most likley would be guns.. But in scotland, people still run about the streets with swords like braveheart. I would be very interested to find out what this film was called. I will do some digging into this! thanks.. Scottish Security http://scottishsecurity.nethttps://facebook.com/scottishsec |
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Assuming you can avoid the VAT, with say $21,000 USD cost and 70 THS the break even point is still:
Days to break even: 249.91 Day(s) (can vary greatly depending on the current exchange rates)
And this ignores the halving.
The figures with the Avalon 10 Pack just don't seem to stack up.
I appoligise. I did make a mistake..its late here. 2am! need coffee! I entered for 10 miners at 9500. thats where the figures came from.. under the assumption of 0 rate import. Hash Rate (GH/s):70000.00 Power (Watts): 1200w Power Cost ($/kWh): £0.00 Pool Fees %: £0.00 Bitcoin Difficulty: 178678307671.68800 Block Reward: 25 Bitcoin to Dollar (USD):426.900000 Hardware Costs (USD): $9500 Days to generate one block mining solo: 126.89 Day(s) Days to generate one BTC: 5.08 Day(s) Days to break even: 112.95 Day(s) you are correct in saying that changes after the halfing. thanks for pointing this out to me, |
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@ 70 TH x 20 Avalon 6 @ Hashrate: 3.5TH/s ±5%
Days to generate one block : 126.89 Days
Days to generate one BTC: 5.08 Days
Days to break even: 125.19 Days
What total USD cost did you assume above for the above calculations? You also need to keep in mind that there is a 20% UK VAT, shipping costs and cost of power supplies. With 20 Avalon 6 for $18,000 USD you need at add 3,600 for VAT, say $1,000 for shipping and $2,000 for power supplies giving say $25,000 USD or 17,000 Sterling. With 70 TH and $25,000 USD the break even points become Days to generate one block mining solo: 126.89 Day(s) (can vary greatly depending on your luck) Days to generate one BTC: 5.08 Day(s) (can vary greatly depending on the current exchange rates) Days to break even: 297.51 Day(s) (can vary greatly depending on the current exchange rates) The above does not take the halving into account. It is possible you will never recover your initial investment. I see your logic here but we are VAT register in the UK so the VAT we will claim back from HMRC, 17,000 GBP is still less that our starting budget. and to be honest we do have a small % we have held back for additional costs. There are also ways to Import into the UK at a 0 VAT rate.. You just need to know what country to ship into the UK from. |
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Sent this to my freind he was like " wow lets get the spade out " Fool haha!
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OK you seem to have ignored my previous two posts so here's my final advice.....
You are way too late to get into Mining, even with your pretend free electricity.
RichBC, I think you've completely missed the key point: (think he just wants to say he has a BTC farm in his factory)
This Bitcoin farm is getting build to facilitate a better industrial property sale. It is kind of like putting a fresh coat of paint on a house before sale. Even if it creates 100% loss it is a tax write-off. Whatever that factory builds or welds, it is getting prepared for a profitable sale. There's a good momentum on the real estate (property) market in the UK now. I've heard that in London other security/watchmen/guards companies getting free electricity in unoccupied buildings on the following conditions: 1) keep the squatters out 2) keep the light on 3) keep the human and car traffic on so that the property looks like it is busy/occupied 4) don't violate any municipal safety codes. It is all in preparation for a "flip". Please learn the estate agent speak. Hi, I know for fact that there is no intention of "flipping" the business or factory.. In fact they recently signed a deal worth almost 20 million with a company in the far east. Unfortunately I am unable to say what they produce or where they are located for obvious reasons. As for security company's yes I have heard of this, and it happens a lot more than you would think, But in this country right now if you have a source of free electricity most people are opting for weed farms. (even though they are 100% illegal here) that's where the "big guns" are making there serious money.. I know there is no intention of the factory being sold, I have known the owner for 18 years and watched him build it from the ground up. So I would be very very surprised if something like this was on the cards.. Thanks |
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That be them (swamp cooling). Something else to keep in mind is that the miners do NOT need an ambient 'comfortable' for people. My main farm remains quite happy when their room gets up to 85-87F in the summer.
I've wondered about the future of miners a lot recently one thought was miners cooled by liquid nitrogen in some way, I see quantum computing is taking big leaps forward and they use liquid nitrogen to keep the chips cool. even though the systems are the size of a room at the moment we can't be too far away from scaled down versions of this.. also liquid cooled boards and chips is something I am interested it. If they can make CPU liquid cooled then sureley btc miners could follow suit? |
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I might add that @ $563 USD and 4.7THs each for s7's, 20k$ (USD) buys 35 miners for >166THs...
Thanks fuzzy. But i must say the 20k must buy us miners and PSU's and cooling. We already have racking and the factory has Inert gas fire suppression systems in place, For cooling, moving outside air in and out is the best choice. Where practical, look at large-surface swamp cooling if ambient is regularly over 90F. Additional benefit is that being for all intents and purposes wet air filters the swamp cooling gives ya pretty clean air. Having free(ish) electric is great if real AC is really needed but that should be a last resort because when it comes down to it all miners are perfect heaters. All power in is expelled as heat. Please no nitpickers about micro energy sent over the 'Net etc... thanks for this.. the factory has a massive cooling system and extraction system, dew to the operations they undertake we should be well catered for in the cooling department and extraction from out server room. I believe they have a Vent-Tech system in place into the area we will be using. http://www.vent-tech.co.uk/evaporative-cooling/industry-solutions/manufacturing |
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My two cents:
While I like the Avalon A6 and it's quality, for every $100 spent on mining gear, you will almost certainly get more TH by purchasing S6 mining gear. If you have some special advantage that's not obvious in terms of Avalon A6, S7's will almost certainly provide more TH/$$$.
I am surprised that you would start solo mining. While the calculations are nice and all, you may well find yourself 60 days in with exactly zero BTC having been mined. If you solo mine, none the numbers besides block solve time for 70TH matter.
Best of luck.
Thanks, We have not ruled out pool mining, We have done calculations on many diffrent ways and ideas including splitting the mine into 10/10 10 solo and 10 on a pool. Thanks |
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Well go ahead, but mining doesnt really support the blockchain. If you want to do that, do your mining if you want to, but be sure to setup a full node somewhere else. Unless you're talking in PH/s, it will provide no support whatsoever and if you do talk in PH/s, its still pretty marginal considering China already has majority. At this point the only thing that would help is for them to decentralize their hash.
Thanks, we have been talking about PH/s but for starting TH/s is going to be where we are at, you must walk before you can run.. thank you all for your input and I look forward to keeping you all posted on how our project goes. I shall get some photos tomorow at the site for you all to see and some photos of the factory and there power systems. Thank you all for the input, You really are some clever cookies here..  Scottish Security http://scottishsecurity.net
http://facebook.com/ScottishSec |
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