Advice On Bitcoin Miners.

[RichBC]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

I think you will get much better value for money going for an S7 Batch 16 bought directly from Bitmain.

Price per unit including shipping and VAT will be around £520 / Unit.

If you can obtain some discount vouchers you can do it for less than this. 


Rich

[VirosaGITS]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

The only manufacturers are Bitmain, Avalon and Bitfury atm. Maybe Spoondoolies. Regardless its all imported. You say they just want a small portion of the coins. I'm not sure they realize it would cost 1$ of electricity for every 1.2$ over 3 months?

Meaning unless they produce power and their only concern is selling it. Not buying electricity (unless they pay less than a cent per kWh), is less loss than selling you electricity for nothing.

IF you/they dont care. Head to Bitmain and order S7's.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

As far as I know, a company called BlockC is the only globally Authorized direct distributor of the Avalons http://www.blockc.co/ so they are the ones to talk to. Anyone else outside of China is reselling from them. BlockC is who folks here used for group buys of Avalon6's. Since they only sell in lots of 10 or more sounds perfect for your plans.

[ScottishSecurity]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

The only manufacturers are Bitmain, Avalon and Bitfury atm. Maybe Spoondoolies. Regardless its all imported. You say they just want a small portion of the coins. I'm not sure they realize it would cost 1$ of electricity for every 1.2$ over 3 months?

Meaning unless they produce power and their only concern is selling it. Not buying electricity (unless they pay less than a cent per kWh), is less loss than selling you electricity for nothing.

IF you/they dont care. Head to Bitmain and order S7's.

There company is a Multi-Million pound turnover and we have been told not to worry about the electrical cost of the farm but to try scale it up before the next halving in 88 days.  If we can be up and running with 70TH/s for the next 88 days to see how things go before the halve,

Also we are thinking that as we move towards the last 5 million btc left to mine, I'm sure that some of the bigger farms will suffer and go offline with the costs they are spending on electric, Surly a split for 25 btc to 12 will hurt the bigger players more than the small time miner operations.

I noticed as well that if say a big miner site goes offline and the network starts to struggle the difficulty will re-adjust automatically, so its makes it that bit easier for the farms to come back on line and move into profit again..

I take it this means that block times will start to fall the closer we get to the end of the road.. even thought that is theoretically not instill 2041,  I Think this will be where the smaller farms come back to make there money.

[RichBC]

Also we are thinking that as we move towards the last 5 million btc left to mine, I'm sure that some of the bigger farms will suffer and go offline with the costs they are spending on electric, Surly a split for 25 btc to 12 will hurt the bigger players more than the small time miner operations.

I noticed as well that if say a big miner site goes offline and the network starts to struggle the difficulty will re-adjust automatically, so its makes it that bit easier for the farms to come back on line and move into profit again..

I take it this means that block times will start to fall the closer we get to the end of the road.. even thought that is theoretically not instill 2041,  I Think this will be where the smaller farms come back to make there money.

Good luck with that theory... I think you will find that the Big Farms that matter will have paid for their investment in the current generation of Miners, will have transitioned to the 14/16nm Miners and will be making as much money after the halving as they do Today. Don't bank on any significant or prolonged reduction to the difficulty.

Rich

[ScottishSecurity]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

As far as I know, a company called BlockC is the only globally Authorized direct distributor of the Avalons http://www.blockc.co/ so they are the ones to talk to. Since they only sell in lots of 10 or more sounds perfect for your plans.

fantastic, Thats where I was looking at them,  
http://www.blockc.co/collections/bitcoin-miners-shop-avalon-blockc-co/products/avalon6-bitcoin-miner

Seems like a good price, after doing some calulations this is what I have come up with..

Solo Farm - No Pool -

@ 70 TH x 20 Avalon 6 @ Hashrate: 3.5TH/s ±5%

Days to generate one block : 126.89 Days
Days to generate one BTC: 5.08 Days
Days to break even: 125.19 Days

Time Frame    BTC Coins            USD            Power Cost (in USD)    Pool Fees (in USD)    Profit (in USD)
Hourly            0.00820935    $3.49    $0.00                    $0.00                    $3.49
Daily                    0.19702444    $83.87    $0.00                    $0.00                    $83.87
Weekly            1.37917107    $587.10    $0.00                    $0.00                    $587.10
Monthly            5.91073317    $2,516.14    $0.00                    $0.00                    $2,516.14
Annually            71.91392021    $30,613.04    $0.00                    $0.00                    $30,613.04

[VirosaGITS]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

The only manufacturers are Bitmain, Avalon and Bitfury atm. Maybe Spoondoolies. Regardless its all imported. You say they just want a small portion of the coins. I'm not sure they realize it would cost 1$ of electricity for every 1.2$ over 3 months?

Meaning unless they produce power and their only concern is selling it. Not buying electricity (unless they pay less than a cent per kWh), is less loss than selling you electricity for nothing.

IF you/they dont care. Head to Bitmain and order S7's.

There company is a Multi-Million pound turnover and we have been told not to worry about the electrical cost of the farm but to try scale it up before the next halving in 88 days.  If we can be up and running with 70TH/s for the next 88 days to see how things go before the halve,

Also we are thinking that as we move towards the last 5 million btc left to mine, I'm sure that some of the bigger farms will suffer and go offline with the costs they are spending on electric, Surly a split for 25 btc to 12 will hurt the bigger players more than the small time miner operations.

I noticed as well that if say a big miner site goes offline and the network starts to struggle the difficulty will re-adjust automatically, so its makes it that bit easier for the farms to come back on line and move into profit again..

I take it this means that block times will start to fall the closer we get to the end of the road.. even thought that is theoretically not instill 2041,  I Think this will be where the smaller farms come back to make there money.

Hmm. 70Th/s is minuscule (vs network). If they have money coming out of their ears, sure. Thats not a whole lot of electricity. Tho i'm pretty sure in the UK they would earn much more if they sold the electricity rather than (you) mined. But lets move on.

So you know about the halving, so you know anything you buy atm will be even less profitable in 3 months. We also know that for private use, there's like 0.1 efficiency chips that won't be out until... oh look, just before the halving, to dump on idiots.

Okay anyways. When the halving happen, it does not really matter as far as "hashrate will drop". Sure it will do something, but actually, big farms have a huge advantage over you and small miners. First they can secure mW's of electricity at dirt cheap (like 1-2 cent/kWh) and second, they get the better stuff before you, and they get better prices.

You can do your math and calculate free electricity and do ROI based on that, but i really much doubt they would be willing to supply you 1mW of electricity for free. (Ofc thats the the case for you yet) So you can get some S7's or wait after the halving (smarter, because S7's value with basically drop overnight to crap).

As far As Bitcoin go, its not a pretty scene, but if you can have someone else shoulder the bill. Go ahead. You'd only need like a dozen of S7, or so for your goal. You won't earn much money and i'm pretty sure they will lose more on electricity than you will earn, but who cares, its not your money. ;P

[ScottishSecurity]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

The only manufacturers are Bitmain, Avalon and Bitfury atm. Maybe Spoondoolies. Regardless its all imported. You say they just want a small portion of the coins. I'm not sure they realize it would cost 1$ of electricity for every 1.2$ over 3 months?

Meaning unless they produce power and their only concern is selling it. Not buying electricity (unless they pay less than a cent per kWh), is less loss than selling you electricity for nothing.

IF you/they dont care. Head to Bitmain and order S7's.

There company is a Multi-Million pound turnover and we have been told not to worry about the electrical cost of the farm but to try scale it up before the next halving in 88 days.  If we can be up and running with 70TH/s for the next 88 days to see how things go before the halve,

Also we are thinking that as we move towards the last 5 million btc left to mine, I'm sure that some of the bigger farms will suffer and go offline with the costs they are spending on electric, Surly a split for 25 btc to 12 will hurt the bigger players more than the small time miner operations.

I noticed as well that if say a big miner site goes offline and the network starts to struggle the difficulty will re-adjust automatically, so its makes it that bit easier for the farms to come back on line and move into profit again..

I take it this means that block times will start to fall the closer we get to the end of the road.. even thought that is theoretically not instill 2041,  I Think this will be where the smaller farms come back to make there money.

Hmm. 70Th/s is minuscule (vs network). If they have money coming out of their ears, sure. Thats not a whole lot of electricity. Tho i'm pretty sure in the UK they would earn much more if they sold the electricity rather than (you) mined. But lets move on.

So you know about the halving, so you know anything you buy atm will be even less profitable in 3 months. We also know that for private use, there's like 0.1 efficiency chips that won't be out until... oh look, just before the halving, to dump on idiots.

Okay anyways. When the halving happen, it does not really matter as far as "hashrate will drop". Sure it will do something, but actually, big farms have a huge advantage over you and small miners. First they can secure mW's of electricity at dirt cheap (like 1-2 cent/kWh) and second, they get the better stuff before you, and they get better prices.

You can do your math and calculate free electricity and do ROI based on that, but i really much doubt they would be willing to supply you 1mW of electricity for free. (Ofc thats the the case for you yet) So you can get some S7's or wait after the halving (smarter, because S7's value with basically drop overnight to crap).

As far As Bitcoin go, its not a pretty scene, but if you can have someone else shoulder the bill. Go ahead. You'd only need like a dozen of S7, or so for your goal. You won't earn much money and i'm pretty sure they will lose more on electricity than you will earn, but who cares, its not your money. ;P

Exactly,  and we are also thinking that after the half possibly the BTC price will be effected. less coins on the network must mean a price rise. its supply and demand structure.

Like we said we want to learn from people here and take on board all the advice we are given. We have a end goal for our coins that will see us make a good return on anything we do mine, and having to hand over a % of the coins at the end of the run we are sure we can walk out with a good ROI. Since we have no running cost for electricity,

The factory get a good rate on there electric as they have a mechnanical production line (robotic welding) they use large amounts off the grid and get it dirt cheap like you say so a few MW extra won't hurt them, also helps the director of the company is into his bitcoins and is willing to gift us the electricity and space for a small % of the BTC we earn. (think he just wants to say he has a BTC farm in his factory)

As for starting out 20k GBP we feel is a good starting investment to buy equipment and fit out the 1st room, (we are planning 2)

please do keep the information comeing guys its been really helpfull to us, and we really appricate all the input and time you have spent replying to us.

on another note dose anyone here know any bitcoin sites in the UK that are up and running? We would be keep to speak to anyone running one? It would be good to have a go to person in our own country who knows the in's and out's of bitcoin miners/farms.

We would also like to visit a bitcoin mine we are willing to travel almost anywhere in the world to come and speak with operators to get a more indepth picture of the way they run there operations.

Thanks

Scottish Security

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I do have to agree with VirosaGITS on using s7's. Using the Bitmain supplies pretty much across all batches since b7 my monitoring reads 6.2A on a 208v line (1.290kw) and on the whole producing as advertised 4.7ish THs. Some a tad less, some consistently averaging >5THs. Currently $563 USD vs the Avalon6 @ $900 for 3.5THs @ 1kw ish load.

I should add that I just picked up one of the latest batch-16 with the one fan and so far it is doing fine. Ordered on Wednesday and got it the Monday after. Temps surprisingly   the same as the 2-fan ones sitting next to it.

I also MUST add that now since the foundry TSMC has had time to re-calibrate their 16nm Fab after the earthquake earlier this year I suspect that we will be seeing Bitmains miners using 16nm nodes size showing up in (hopefully) the next month or less. Unlike *some* miner chip makers <cough, BitFury> Bitmain has always been very quiet about new tech until it is actually in production with fast and on-schedule delivery. It is a cert that Bitmain's last 2-3 batches have been their Plan-B to cover their ass on any delays in 16nm chip production.

[RichBC]

OK you seem to have ignored my previous two posts so here's my final advice.....

You are way too late to get into Mining, even with your pretend free electricity. After buying the miners, and PSU, setting up the operation with suitable racking, cooling and safety systems, you then have running, maintenance and replacement costs to factor in. The life of the Miners will be less than 5 Years, maybe as short as 3 Years.

So here's what to do. Take the £20K and buy a sign that says Bitcoin Mining and stick it on a Door, spend the rest of the Money buying Bitcoin. A lot less hassle and far more likely to be profitable.


Rich

[ScottishSecurity]

OK you seem to have ignored my previous two posts so here's my final advice.....

You are way too late to get into Mining, even with your pretend free electricity. After buying the miners, and PSU, setting up the operation with suitable racking, cooling and safety systems, you then have running, maintenance and replacement costs to factor in. The life of the Miners will be less than 5 Years, maybe as short as 3 Years.

So here's what to do. Take the £20K and buy a sign that says Bitcoin Mining and stick it on a Door, spend the rest of the Money buying Bitcoin. A lot less hassle and far more likely to be profitable.


Rich

Hi Rich,

I did read both of your posts and thats not exactly what you said if you care to scroll back up? You talk about getting discount vouchers to buy miners.. at no point have you said anything of the such about being too late to mine.  We know we are late comers to the mining industry but as the saying goes better late than never...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1436810.msg14542267#msg14542267

Also our project is to mine and make some coins for another project down the line.. while there is still 5 million + coins to mine I can't see how we are "too late". I thought with bitcoin the more people mining was of great benefit to the network..

I don't see the point in buying 20k of bitcoin when we can help support the network and earn coins back over time.
We are hoping in time the director of the company will possibly invest into the mine with us, he has already been very generous by gifting us the space and the access to his power.  and I am sure he will be more than willing to possibly buy new technology in future when it becomes available..

I know you say well the miners have deeper pockets than us that is correct. But as we prove to our host that we can
1. run a farm successfully
2. run a farm safely
3. generate coins..

then in time I am sure he will open his wallet and invest in better technology with us..
I must stress this guy was in the Sunday times rich list 5 years in a row now and has very deep pockets.

But to prove a point before asking for investment he has given us this opportunity to do this and it would be foolish not to take full advantage of whats been layed out before us...

thanks

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I might add that @ $563 USD and 4.7THs each for s7's, 20k$ (USD) buys 35 miners for >166THs with around 45kw power usage ... Got a hunch the exchange dif between 20k USD and 20k Pounds would cover any VAT you face no?

[VirosaGITS]

OK you seem to have ignored my previous two posts so here's my final advice.....

You are way too late to get into Mining, even with your pretend free electricity. After buying the miners, and PSU, setting up the operation with suitable racking, cooling and safety systems, you then have running, maintenance and replacement costs to factor in. The life of the Miners will be less than 5 Years, maybe as short as 3 Years.

So here's what to do. Take the £20K and buy a sign that says Bitcoin Mining and stick it on a Door, spend the rest of the Money buying Bitcoin. A lot less hassle and far more likely to be profitable.


Rich

Hi Rich,

I did read both of your posts and thats not exactly what you said if you care to scroll back up? You talk about getting discount vouchers to buy miners.. at no point have you said anything of the such about being too late to mine.  We know we are late comers to the mining industry but as the saying goes better late than never...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1436810.msg14542267#msg14542267

Also our project is to mine and make some coins for another project down the line.. while there is still 5 million + coins to mine I can't see how we are "too late". I thought with bitcoin the more people mining was of great benefit to the network..

I don't see the point in buying 20k of bitcoin when we can help support the network and earn coins back over time.
We are hoping in time the director of the company will possibly invest into the mine with us, he has already been very generous by gifting us the space and the access to his power.  and I am sure he will be more than willing to possibly buy new technology in future when it becomes available..

I know you say well the miners have deeper pockets than us that is correct. But as we prove to our host that we can
1. run a farm successfully
2. run a farm safely
3. generate coins..

then in time I am sure he will open his wallet and invest in better technology with us..
I must stress this guy was in the Sunday times rich list 5 years in a row now and has very deep pockets.

But to prove a point before asking for investment he has given us this opportunity to do this and it would be foolish not to take full advantage of whats been layed out before us...

thanks

Well go ahead, but mining doesnt really support the blockchain. If you want to do that, do your mining if you want to, but be sure to setup a full node somewhere else. Unless you're talking in PH/s, it will provide no support whatsoever and if you do talk in PH/s, its still pretty marginal considering China already has majority. At this point the only thing that would help is for them to decentralize their hash.

[ScottishSecurity]

I might add that @ $563 USD and 4.7THs each for s7's, 20k$ (USD) buys 35 miners for >166THs...

 Thanks fuzzy.

But i must say the 20k must buy us miners and PSU's and cooling.  We already have racking and the factory has Inert gas fire suppression systems in place,

[ScottishSecurity]

Well go ahead, but mining doesnt really support the blockchain. If you want to do that, do your mining if you want to, but be sure to setup a full node somewhere else. Unless you're talking in PH/s, it will provide no support whatsoever and if you do talk in PH/s, its still pretty marginal considering China already has majority. At this point the only thing that would help is for them to decentralize their hash.

Thanks, we have been talking about PH/s but for starting TH/s is going to be where we are at, you must walk before you can run..
thank you all for your input and I look forward to keeping you all posted on how our project goes.

I shall get some photos tomorow at the site for you all to see and some photos of the factory and there power systems.

Thank you all for the input, You really are some clever cookies here..

Scottish Security

Code:

http://scottishsecurity.net
http://facebook.com/ScottishSec

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I might add that @ $563 USD and 4.7THs each for s7's, 20k$ (USD) buys 35 miners for >166THs...

 Thanks fuzzy.

But i must say the 20k must buy us miners and PSU's and cooling.  We already have racking and the factory has Inert gas fire suppression systems in place,

For cooling, moving outside air in and out is the best choice. Where practical, look at large-surface swamp cooling if ambient is regularly over 90F. Additional benefit is that being for all intents and purposes wet air filters the swamp cooling gives ya pretty clean air. Having free(ish) electric is great if real AC is really needed but that should be a last resort because when it comes down to it all miners are perfect heaters. All power in is expelled as heat. Please no nitpickers about micro energy sent over the 'Net etc...

[alh]

My two cents:

While I like the Avalon A6 and it's quality, for every $100 spent on mining gear, you will almost certainly get more TH by purchasing S6 mining gear. If you have some special advantage that's not obvious in terms of Avalon A6, S7's will almost certainly provide more TH/$$$.

I am surprised that you would start solo mining. While the calculations are nice and all, you may well find yourself 60 days in with exactly zero BTC having been mined. If you solo mine, none the numbers besides block solve time for 70TH matter.

Best of luck.

[ScottishSecurity]

My two cents:

While I like the Avalon A6 and it's quality, for every $100 spent on mining gear, you will almost certainly get more TH by purchasing S6 mining gear. If you have some special advantage that's not obvious in terms of Avalon A6, S7's will almost certainly provide more TH/$$$.

I am surprised that you would start solo mining. While the calculations are nice and all, you may well find yourself 60 days in with exactly zero BTC having been mined. If you solo mine, none the numbers besides block solve time for 70TH matter.

Best of luck.

Thanks, We have not ruled out pool mining, We have done calculations on many diffrent ways and ideas including splitting the mine into 10/10

10 solo and 10 on a pool.

Thanks

[NotFuzzyWarm]

For a reference, CK pool is currently running ~34PHs. and today has hit 5 blocks. Yesterday they hit 11, day before that it was only 1 block. Running my 110THs they paid me 0.08 BTC per block. You do the math on earning vs the Solo Lottery and well.....

[ScottishSecurity]

I might add that @ $563 USD and 4.7THs each for s7's, 20k$ (USD) buys 35 miners for >166THs...

 Thanks fuzzy.

But i must say the 20k must buy us miners and PSU's and cooling.  We already have racking and the factory has Inert gas fire suppression systems in place,

For cooling, moving outside air in and out is the best choice. Where practical, look at large-surface swamp cooling if ambient is regularly over 90F. Additional benefit is that being for all intents and purposes wet air filters the swamp cooling gives ya pretty clean air. Having free(ish) electric is great if real AC is really needed but that should be a last resort because when it comes down to it all miners are perfect heaters. All power in is expelled as heat. Please no nitpickers about micro energy sent over the 'Net etc...

thanks for this.. the factory has a massive cooling system and extraction system,  dew to the operations they undertake we should be well catered for in the cooling department and extraction from out server room.

I believe they have a Vent-Tech system in place into the area we will be using.

http://www.vent-tech.co.uk/evaporative-cooling/industry-solutions/manufacturing