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8381  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 04, 2019, 01:19:21 PM

 I'm pretty sure MicG is talking about the original not the original.




You can't hurry love
You just have to wait. They say
love don't come easy

(edited to be in haiku form)
8382  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: Ok, here's a 1BTC puzzle. on: February 04, 2019, 10:24:51 AM
Really I'm astounded at the amount of work people are putting in to "crack" the riddle rather than just trying to solve it. All the more power to you...
8383  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The price of Bitcoin is going down because the price is going down, on: February 04, 2019, 09:34:41 AM
This article was published today:

https://fossbytes.com/bitcoin-mining-costs-now-exceeds-its-worth-jp-morgan/

Quote
In the fourth quarter, the cost of mining a Bitcoin averaged around $4,060 while the trading cost is $3,600. However, there is a varied range for which a Bitcoin can be mined. For example, Chinese miners can get a Bitcoin by spending just $2,400 in the mining process.

Now, instead of just attacking the source and everybody's intelligence, maybe come up with your own numbers and evidence to support them?

The idea that price correlates to mining cost is ludicrous. Well before the price sank below $4,000, you were telling everybody on this board that it would never fall below the cost of mining. You were wrong. You've been wrong for quite some time, and you're wrong now.

Edit: Furthermore, if "new miners" was the reason for the drop in price, why has the difficulty being going _down_ since October? It should be going up!

https://www.blockchain.com/charts/difficulty
8384  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The price of Bitcoin is going down because the price is going down, on: February 04, 2019, 09:13:42 AM
You're an asshole. What makes it worse is the fact that you're wrong.

well you just continue looking at chart data and think thats all you ned to look at.
while smarter people look at real causations and real events.

but i do find it funny how you made a meme that trend anals(TA) but then you flip flop to then think the price is just based on price
without understanding where peoples common support levels come from

trend anals that only look at the price are the foolish people that ignore technicals.
it really might be worth you looking beyond chart data

Dude. I don't look at chart data, other than its quite obvious BTC was overbought near its ATH. I never said "price is just based on price." You're just pulling stuff out of your ass now.

"Smarter people look at real causations and real events."

You're looking at the wrong ones. Earlier you referenced you've been buying bits throughout last year. That's why you're so incredibly sour right now, because you're obviously sitting on a loss. So your own analysis never helped you.
8385  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Imagine I'm the average Joe. Sell me on the following. on: February 04, 2019, 09:06:15 AM
seems your trying too hard to justify all the variations of "dollar" value

Its not hard at all. Different places have different costs of living even within the same country. Nearly every country that's big enough experiences this.

you win no awards defending the dollar.

I'm not defending anything. I'm simply telling you. Its the least volatile of all currencies because it is the most widely traded. This isn't an opinion.

https://admiralmarkets.com/education/articles/forex-basics/what-are-the-best-currency-pairs-to-trade

Quote
Not surprisingly, the most dominant and strongest currency, as well as the most widely traded, is the US dollar. The reason for this is simply the sheer size of the US economy, which is the world's largest. The US dollar is the preferred reference in most currency exchange transactions worldwide. It is the dominant reserve currency of the world.

and if you think the pound is to blame for why dollars value against it changes.
then you have to explain the changes of the other 100+ countries

oh wait. its all the other countries faults. i get it you love and adore the dollar and you want to wrap the dollar in cotton wool and protect it.
good luck

OK look, there's no point in trying to help you understand the point I'm making because you seem intent on belittling me. It has nothing to do with "fault", it has to do with the fact that the dollar-based currency pairings are the most liquid on the planet.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/11/popular-currencies-and-why-theyre-traded.asp

Quote
First and foremost is the U.S. dollar, which is easily the most traded currency on the planet. The USD can be found in a pair with all the other major currencies and often acts as the intermediary in triangular currency transactions. This is all because the USD acts as the unofficial global reserve currency, held by nearly every central bank and institutional investment entity in the world.


In addition, due to the U.S. dollar's global acceptance, it is used by some countries as an official currency, in lieu of a local currency, a practice known as dollarization. The U.S. dollar also may be widely accepted in other nations, acting as an informal alternative form of payment, while those nations maintain their official local currency.

The dollar is an important factor, too, in the foreign exchange rate market for other currencies, where it may act as a benchmark or target rate for countries that choose to fix or peg their currencies to the USD's value. China, for instance, has long had its currency, the yuan or renminbi, pegged to the dollar, much to the disagreement of many economists and central bankers. Quite often countries will fix their exchange rates to the USD to stabilize their exchange rate, rather than allowing the free (forex) markets to fluctuate its relative value.
8386  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The price of Bitcoin is going down because the price is going down, on: February 04, 2019, 06:58:39 AM
I still don't know how you can continue to push this narrative after being wrong for so many months in a row.

1. is not a sudden reaction..

Yeah I guess not because it hasn't happened in 4 months.

2. the UNDERLYING VALUE is not the same as PRICE

Has nothing to do with this discussion.

3. the mining dynamic is not a predictor of ATH or sudden movements daily.

OK I agree.

4. the cost of mining/overtaken profit link just reading the links wording suggests they have no clue*

There's several stories that all come to the same conclusion, because its a very real phenomenon. I understand mining costs vary tremendously from region to region but we're talking about a mass average here.

5. might be worth you going deper and researching beyond high school level stuff

You're an asshole. What makes it worse is the fact that you're wrong.
8387  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Imagine I'm the average Joe. Sell me on the following. on: February 04, 2019, 06:43:12 AM
by the way, fiat is not stable.

No, but the USD is the most stable financial instrument in the world relative to everything else, including every single other currency.

did you know with the US dollar. someone in new york city gets paid a minimum of $15 an hour where as someone outside the city gets paid $7.50

Yeah, its called COLA - cost of living adjustment. A dollar is still a dollar, its worth more or less relative to the cost of living in your location; that doesn't render it "unstable."

even forex changes alot. a decade ago £1 got you $1.65 now its $1.31

That's because the pound has weakened over the last 10 years relative to the dollar.

people being used to the volatility does not = stable.. it just means they stopped caring about its movement and just pay whatever price they see as they think fiat is the only currency they can use so have no choice

Maybe where you live. Where I live the price of things fluctuates somewhat rapidly, because the currency is inflationary compared to the dollar; its lost 14% of its value over the last 5 years. This forces importers to reprice things so they don't take a loss, and this ends up having a downstream effect that raises the price of everything else.
8388  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The price of Bitcoin is going down because the price is going down, on: February 04, 2019, 06:28:12 AM
people want to find the cheapest way to obtain bitcoin. either on the market or by mining it.
when its cheap to mine it, the price goes down becasue people mine it, and if profitable they sell some on the market.
when its expensive to mine it, people buy it and the price goes up

I don't know how you can continue to believe in this dynamic. It seems like something out of 2011-12. First of all, most people can't just suddenly decide to take up bitcoin mining. The general public is reliant upon miners who are deeply invested in it and in it for the long term. Second of all, the price has been consistently lower than the average cost to mine it for quite some time now. Most mining operations have been taking a loss for months. BTC isn't going to magically rise because of what's going on with the miners.

https://www.chepicap.com/en/news/4275/the-cost-of-mining-bitcoin-has-overtaken-the-profit.html

If your assertion was correct, BTC would be back above $5,000 by now.
8389  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The price of Bitcoin is going down because the price is going down, on: February 04, 2019, 06:20:43 AM
Sounds like some pretty heavy duty technical analysis to me (this is the essence of TA: if BTC goes up to this level, that means its going up; if BTC goes down to that level, that means its going down).

8390  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Imagine I'm the average Joe. Sell me on the following. on: February 04, 2019, 05:40:51 AM
I will take a simple example that happened to me over this weekend. I went to my local Barber for a haircut and they are immigrants from Greece, working in another country. They were talking about MoneyGram and Western Union and how people get ripped off with high fees when they use these services.

This immediately got my attention even though I was not part of the discussion. I simply asked them if they knew how cheap it is to send money to Greece with Bitcoin and this led to a question & answer session and quick training of almost 2 hours. I can now understand their frustration and they have a new way to transfer money to their country without hassles and at a fraction of the price that they are sending it via MoneyGram and Western Union.

Oh, I did not have to pay for my haircut.  Grin  

This is a good story. So you sold the Greek barbers on bitcoin?
8391  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Imagine I'm the average Joe. Sell me on the following. on: February 04, 2019, 05:38:22 AM
fiat is created at ZERO cost. thus it has a ZERO base cost layer to its value(gold backing died decades ago)
its created due to debt.

Well, that's not entirely true. It costs $0.103 to print 1 $20 bill and $0.0166 to mint 1 penny.

unlike other altcoins that are PoS(zero value).

If somebody pays for something using a PoS coin, obviously its value isn't zero. If they can exchange it for BTC or $$, obviously its value isn't zero. The value might be subjectively zero to you and 4x its actual price to another. Just because you say something has zero value doesn't mean everybody else thinks this way.

I mean, like you pointed out, the dollar is created at zero cost (or minimal cost for a physical form), yet the USD is the most stable financial instrument in the entire world. Cost of production has little to do with stability, value or price -- utility and fungibility have everything to do with it.
8392  Other / Meta / Re: Discussion about subjective behaviors that may result in a red tag. on: February 04, 2019, 05:05:50 AM
This is just my opinion but anyone can tag anyone for any reason they want even if it is against the advice of Theymos, but you will have to live with the results of your decisions.
You can tag Vod for "licking his boob" if you want but he and the court of public opinion will probably crush you and remove you from DT. Others may also tag you for leaving bullshit feedback.

I agree with this approach the most. At the end of the day it will always be somewhat subjective and should be left this way.

I also like the idea of coming up with general rules of thumb, if only so there is less chances of retaliatory feedback.

OK so here's my votes:

Extreme harassment - no, except in cases where physical threats or other illegal activity is threatened toward the user

Asking for a no collateral loan - yes, but only for Newbies

ANN bumping - no, but yes for the provision of ANN bumping services

Colluding - yes, evidence needs to be supplied ("proof" is even better)

Leaving fake negative ratings - yes, evidence needs to be supplied

Loan defaults - yes, especially if the loan recipient refuses to make/adhere to plans for repayment

Business activity that resulted in the loss of funds by others - yes, evidence needs to be supplied

All trust ratings (positive or negative) should be properly referenced going forward.


I also have a question: what about members supporting fake ICOs? ICOs that clearly have:

a. fake team members
b. plagiarized white papers
c. characteristics associated with Ponzis or MLMs (fixed ROIs and extra heavy emphasis on affiliate programs)

I'd like to get a general consensus on these items as well.
8393  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: 📢【ANN】【ICO】COINWARE -A Friendly CryptoCurrency Exchange--PRIVATE SALE(LIVE)🔥 on: February 04, 2019, 04:26:33 AM
You guys never updated your white paper, and now you've employed a bump bot service to bump your thread... hmm... really doesn't look good, guys.

If I were investor I would immediately skip this project in favor of something that doesn't have outstanding scam accusations against it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103425.0

There's literally hundreds of other investment opportunities to choose from. Why take a risk on a project that might be fraudulent?
8394  Other / Meta / Re: How does this forum differ from a dictatorial regime on: February 03, 2019, 06:23:06 PM
You might want to look up what the world hyperbole means. Also people contribute to this place as well even if it is the private property of Theymos. He has sought to decentralize its leadership some what. People spend lots of time, money, and energy building reputations and industries on this forum. Acting like people can just walk away without penalty, or that these things have no real world effects is just infantile.

I'm getting really tired of this tactic of yours. I'm not exactly blown away by your intellectual prowess and I recognize your condescension is just a veil over not being able to produce actual counterarguments. This forum is littered with people exactly like you. Get over yourself. Furthermore, people can just walk away, they do every day, and they should if it makes them as distraught as it does you.

Yes it does sound like every society ever, perhaps we should take lessons from those systems of law and apply them here?

That's exactly what theymos is trying to do by democratizing the DT system. You on the other hand... I have no idea what you're trying to do. You seem to just be angry all the time.

Such as a standard of evidence for accusations and some form of due process.

OK, so present the idea to the board. Or, just theymos. Or both. However you see fit.

I don't speak for most people, but you do?

I never said I do. You, on the other hand, did... Most people that don't like the forum leave. Maybe its in your own best interest if you considered following suit.
8395  Other / Meta / Re: How does this forum differ from a dictatorial regime on: February 03, 2019, 05:55:28 PM
While this thread title is obviously extremely hyperbolic, I think the question in concept is at least a valid one.

It's really not. Its not a "regime" that we are all forced live under. We're all here voluntarily.

In the case of this forum it is essentially a giant engine of drama and scams.

It's many more things than that. Everybody guides their own user experience of what they want to get out of the forum.

When rules apply to some people but not others not only is confusion created but disregard for the authority of those that wield it in general. In the end this fast and loose style talks lots of freedom and decentralization, and delivers lots of cliques, systemic abuse, and results counter to what most people desire in their user experience.

1. Sounds like every single other community or society that has ever existed.
2. You don't speak for "what most people desire."

Again, nobody is forcing anybody to be here, and if they don't like it, they can leave. Or better yet, create their own forum.
8396  Other / Ivory Tower / Re: Is amusement causing the downfall of society ? on: February 03, 2019, 03:54:45 PM
^ Most people today are working more on average than humans did in hunter gatherer times.  A lot of industries are losing popularity as well.  Less people are eating out, watching sports, and buying new cars.  It doesn't take a genius to realize that nearly all gains made from productivity gains have gone straight to the ownership class.  Younger generations can't even afford homes anymore, far from a stable society.

Less war, less violence, longer lifespans, greater economic opportunity... Society is exceptionally stable, perhaps now more than ever. I truly though society was going to melt down around 2010... So far it hasn't happened. Trust me, I'm up for a revolution as much as anybody else, I just don't think its going to happen so long as people are content with their televisions and mobile devices.
8397  Economy / Reputation / Re: A boycott of replies to the recent extensive trolling by cryptohunter on: February 03, 2019, 03:48:30 PM
A great idea, I regret not reading this thread earlier.

Guy (or gal) is completely off their respective rocker.

Consider it done.

Now he is advocating for scammers. He is supporting the use of a trust list which would aim to replace the entirety of DT with a bunch of accounts which are either inactive, trolls, scammers, or some combination of those three. This would give literally thousands of scammers a clean trust rating and release them back on to the forum.

As far as I understand how the new system works, the chance that this will actually happen is extremely unlikely.
8398  Other / Off-topic / Re: Merit System Upgrade on: February 03, 2019, 03:31:36 PM
I thought the merit system (a last ditch effort at redemption) might bring back the fire and I really tried to make it work. Instead all it did was create another altcoin (meritcoin) to be traded secretly on other forums so it can be used by Indonesian posters to make fiat using google translate. Why give him merit? Because he is this forum now.

Actually the dude (dudette) I referenced is Filipino, but that's pretty darn close.

I kind of understand where you're coming from, but I truly think that its better than nothing and the place would be even more over-run by spambots if this hurdle wasn't there. Sincerely, the system is preventing account farmers from ranking up 50+ accounts just to be sold or used in bounty campaigns.

There's no way I'm not being at least slightly hypocritical here because I myself joined a sig campaign, but still I'd like to think there's a difference between me and your average Jake Zyrus over there. Not only did I initially come here to learn but I don't write the first ten words that come to mind and call it a post. Truthfully I almost never click on signatures and I don't know how there's money to be made by that form of advertising, but apparently there is...
8399  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nasdacoin is fully encrypted, 100% digital currency on: February 03, 2019, 01:58:37 PM
I frankly can't believe this coin is even in the top 200. It offers nothing to nobody. Another "get rich quick" scheme that doesn't tell you the only way to get rich is to con your family and friends into buying it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9xmskk/how_can_people_still_fall_in_coin_like_nasdacoin/
8400  Other / Meta / Re: DefaultTrust changes on: February 03, 2019, 01:08:30 PM
weeew lordy

I can't tell if you're insane or just trying to troll me; maybe a combination of both.

If you really want the system changed, try being more rational when presenting your arguments. Coming across in the manner you do isn't very compelling. Neither is it for TECHSHARE.

I don't have anything else constructive to add to this conversation.
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