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861  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proposal for mass adoption: the introduction of a new unit of account on: August 18, 2023, 08:07:42 AM
So if I understand correctly, 10^8 was chosen for technical considerations, not for user experience. Very interesting!
When bitcoin was first launched, the client only showed two decimal places, not 8. Many users at the time did not know it was further subdivisible.

Here's another post from Satoshi which might interest you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44.msg267#msg267

Clearly the idea of moving the decimal point never caught on, and I can't see it ever getting enough support to happen now. Working in sats works just fine.
862  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Multisig wallet on: August 18, 2023, 07:56:33 AM
My TIN for example is impossible to forget so if I die lose my memory or whatever there are instructions and everything needed in a lot of different places.
Well, in that case you are not relying on your memory then. Tongue If you are one of the unlucky millions to experience memory loss each year, then you have multiple back ups of your TIN.

My only concern then is the custom obfuscation method you have come up with. If your brother (for example) can recover an encrypted back up and a decryption key, then he can fairly easily try multiple standard decryption algorithms until he can recover your funds. If you've done something weird and again not backed it up on paper, he might be unable to figure it out.
863  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proposal for mass adoption: the introduction of a new unit of account on: August 17, 2023, 09:25:01 AM
Also, I haven't found any answers, but does anyone know why Satoshi Nakamoto decided 1 btc = 10^8 sat? Why 8?
See this post from Ray Dillinger: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=819656.msg9170781#msg9170781

The difference between the highest valued (GBP) and lowest valued (INR) fiat currencies on your chart is over 100x, with 1 GBP = 105 INR. Given that you are implying a difference of over 100x is fine for fiat currencies, why isn't it fine to just use sats for bitcoin?

I mean, the paisa barely even exists in India anymore, with the 50 paise coin not minted in over 20 years and every smaller coin completely demonetized. The price of everything in India is denoted solely in rupees, where something like a laptop might cost between ₹30,000 and ₹200,000. What's wrong with just doing the same for sats?
864  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: how many times the same set of private keys can exist within a multisig wallet? on: August 17, 2023, 08:36:45 AM
Specifically, if a 3 of 4 multisig wallet is established, could it be feasible to have two of the four keys identical? This way, withdrawals would require the signature of one of the remaining two unique keys.
If you wanted to go down this route, it would still be better to have all four keys different but just retain two of the keys in your own possession. This allows you to diversify your back ups and adds more security, since one of the other parties would need to compromise two different keys to steal your funds instead of just one.

Alternatively, use the script that Zaguru12 has linked to above. This is a 2-of-3 multi-sig which mandates one of the signatures must come from your keys, with the other signature coming from either of the other two keys.
865  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can a transaction in a 6 block confirmation removed on: August 17, 2023, 08:25:30 AM
20% pool A - average block speed 2min-20 min
Wrong again.

If a pool has 20% of the global hashrate, then they would expect to find 20% of the blocks. 20% of the blocks is 1.2 blocks an hour, meaning their average block interval would be 50 minutes.

anyway back to the example of the 5 pools (A-E)
taking pools CDE away. does not make pools A and B to suddenly take 5-50 minutes
Of course it does. If you take away 3 pools with a combined 60% of the hashrate, then the remaining 40% of the hashrate cannot continue to find blocks at a 10 minute average interval. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about how mining and the difficulty/target work.

other pools dont impede work done by another pool
I never said they did. You simply don't understand what you are talking about.

i will emphasise this.. OELEO seems to think a attacker pool with XX% of network hashrate has stolen hashrate from each and every pool making each and every pools attempts slower
Nope, never said that either.

In your example, if pools CDE turn malicious, then pools AB remain entirely honest and of course continue with their combined 40% of the hashrate. However, blocks will be found significantly slower since we've just lost 60% of the global hashrate.

you need to learn the difference between POOL hashrate and network hashrate...
network hashrate drop does not cause honest pools hashrate to drop.. pools still perform the same work for their block candidate
And how exactly do you propose the the network continues with a 10 minute block average after losing 60% of its hashrate?

you really do need to learn the word orphan..
orphan means loss of parent.. its a word in the english language that has existed for centuries
Re-orged blocks have a clear parent which they have been built upon, which you can trivially find by looking at their block headers (which will contain the block hash of the parent they are building on). They are not orphans. Orphan blocks have no known parent.

Yet another source to prove you are incorrect: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Orphan_Block
866  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: HOW CAN BITCOIN STORED IN DOWNLOADED WALLET BE RECOVERED? on: August 17, 2023, 08:10:45 AM
I heard one case here before where OP lost his funds in Electrum due to such an old version of Electrum he failed to update the app with time and when he returned after a long period of time he then tried to update the Electrum from that fake link and fall prey to a scam which lost him a lot of money.
Which is exactly my point. Scammers can make fake software, fake apps, fake websites, fake download pages, but they cannot make fake GPG signatures. Once you know how to do it, it takes less than 20 seconds to verify a download against a public key in your keystore. Do this simple thing with every new version you download and you will never fall victim to such scams.

And of course if he spend some time on official page of download
Being on the official website, although smart, is insufficient to guarantee your safety. Scammers could either have hacked the official website, or hacked the download server that it points to. Once again, if you verify the signature of what you download, then you will be protected from such scams.
867  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can a transaction in a 6 block confirmation removed on: August 16, 2023, 08:47:24 PM
take 3 out of 5 runners away from the race and put them into a new circuit.. does not mean the remaining runners suddenly run slower at 25 seconds
This is a completely flawed analogy. If you take 60% of the hashrate away to mine a malicious chain in secret, then why on earth would the remaining 40% still be able to find blocks at the same speed? That is absolutely not how bitcoin works, like, at all.

meaning a attacker pool having 50%, 60%, 70% of the network is not taking 50%, 60% 70% of block shares away from the network each hour.
If you take 50/60/70% of the hashrate away to mine on a different chain, then the remaining hashrate will absolutely find blocks more slowly. You honestly think if 70% of the hashrate disappeared right now to mine a different chain in secret, that the average block time would still be 10 minutes with only 30% of the hashrate remaning?

yep stales are old blocks late to the party so just disregarded..
orphans are the blocks rejected when their is a re-org and a new parent many confirms back becomes the fork to follow. and the children of the old path have no parent anymore. thus orphans.. thus rejected
Your terminology is also wrong: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5859/what-are-orphaned-and-stale-blocks
868  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proposal for mass adoption: the introduction of a new unit of account on: August 16, 2023, 05:38:26 PM
In fact, it doesn't matter how we call the unit that defines 100 satoshis. My point is that it's this basic unit that should be used.
Then go out and use it! If enough people agree to use bits, then that's what will be used. As it stands, almost no one uses bits. I much prefer using either BTC or sats, and not complicating things with additional in between units. It's fine to use sats up to 100,000 sats, and then use BTC from 0.001 BTC.

Talking in satoshis is the equivalent of talking in cents: big numbers for nothing.
So is bits. 1 bit is 3 cents. If you want an "everyday" unit, then the logical choice is mBTC, which is ~$30.
869  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can a transaction in a 6 block confirmation removed on: August 16, 2023, 04:38:06 PM
-snip-
You've completely misunderstood my point (as usual) and just launched in to another rant where everyone except you is wrong about everything (as usual). Roll Eyes

if the normal network makes 6 blocks an hour. but is only 50% of total power.. then the other EQUAL 50% would be expected to on average mine the same amount of blocks
Only if the attacker is bringing entirely new hashrate to attack the network. And which attacker exactly has 400 EH/s of hashrate sitting idle waiting to attack the network? The far more likely scenario is that hashrate which already exists and is currently mining honestly would turn malicious, in which case my example above is completely accurate. The combination of the 60% malicious hashrate and the 40% honest hashrate would continue to mine on average 6 blocks an hour, meaning the attacker would mine 3.6 and the honest hashrate would mine 2.4, on their respective chains.

its not 3.6 blocks of the average of the network... its 6+ blocks of their own chain whilst the normal chain is making 6 blocks
Again, this is only in the scenario an attacker with 400 EH/s comes out of nowhere to attack the network, and not in the event that honest hashrate turns malicious. These are two entirely separate scenarios.

You were the one which started talking about hashrate on mining pools realizing they were mining maliciously and swapping back to honest pools:
the thing is. how long can you retain a large percentage before those independent miners on attacker pool see attackers attempt and jump ship away from attacker pool. or can the attacker pool afford to self power XX% of their own miners to perform a successful re-org of 6 six confirm tx within only 3-4 hours before the network responds to harness their excess hashpower to counter the attacker.

In this situation, my example is completely accurate. If you are now changing to the scenario where an attacker comes out of nowhere with new hashrate, then the calculations are obviously completely different, but you don't seem to realize that these are two entirely separate scenarios.
870  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can a transaction in a 6 block confirmation removed on: August 16, 2023, 02:55:28 PM
mathematically guaranteed to overtake any deficit... but the question you ignore is WHEN
On the contrary - you are the one ignoring the time scales when you stated someone with 50% of the hashrate will "never catch up" to a 6 block deficit, and will "always be 6 blocks behind". This is simply not true.

If you want to start placing time restraints the then question changes dramatically. A 51% attack (or even a 60%, 70%, or 80% attack) will not be successful if you place a sufficient limits on how big the deficit is and how much time the attacker can sustain that hashrate.

As an example, let's say an attacker has 60% of the hashrate, and wants to overcome a 6 block deficit in an hour. With 60% of the hashrate, they would expect to mine 3.6 blocks per hour. They would therefore have only a 7.3% chance of mining 7 or more blocks within an hour. However, the honest miners would expect to find 2.4 blocks in an hour, and would have a 90.9% chance to find at least 1 block in that hour and therefore stay head of the attacker. Multiply these probabilities (which is fudging the numbers slightly, but the premise remains the same) and a 60% attacker still only has a 0.67% chance of overcoming a 6 block deficit if you limit the attack to an hour.
871  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Electrum Linux vs MacOS/Windows on: August 16, 2023, 01:33:59 PM
In some circumstances, it is worth noting the derivation path because even if the seed is the same, the resulting wallet address can differ depending on the wallet type.
BIP39 seed phrases can indeed be used to derive multiple address types at multiple derivation paths, but this is not the case for Electrum seed phrases and so you do not need to back up a derivation path. Electrum seed phrases have a version number encoded within them (as the first 8 or 12 bits of a hash of the seed phrase), meaning Electrum will only ever recover one specific script type at one specific derivation path for each seed phrase.
872  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proposal for mass adoption: the introduction of a new unit of account on: August 16, 2023, 09:49:28 AM


We already have BTC and sats which most people use. The term you are proposing already exists as bits or μBTC. We also have mBTC and msats. And a bunch of other units like the finney which already no one uses: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units#Table_of_all_units

A new unit is unnecessary. A new name for a unit which already has two names is even more unnecessary. It's a NACK from me I'm afraid.
873  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: HOW CAN BITCOIN STORED IN DOWNLOADED WALLET BE RECOVERED? on: August 16, 2023, 09:28:01 AM
That's one of the worst possible wallets that you can use since you don't own private keys meaning you don't even own crypto that you store there.
Blockchain.com does in fact give you a seed phrase you can import elsewhere to access your private keys. It is still a terrible choice of wallet, though, since we have no idea how that seed phrase was created or who else has access to it, never mind all the other points I mentioned above.

Hacker or spammer will try to clone the original app or wallet to lure you into thinking that it is the real wallet like the last phishing hack in electrum wallet.
They can't clone GPG signatures. If you spend the few seconds it takes to actually verify your downloads (as everyone should be doing), then you will literally never fall victim to such a scam.
874  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can a transaction in a 6 block confirmation removed on: August 16, 2023, 09:12:50 AM
Orphaned blocks occurs when two blocks are sent simultaneously to nodes and as miners mined or build blocks the longest chain one is been picked by the nodes and the later dropped back to the mempool. So if your transaction happens to be in the short chain then it can be reversed.
The correct term here is stale blocks. Orphaned blocks refer to blocks without a known parent (as the word "orphan" implies), which is something different.

Also, a transaction which is included in the losing chain will only go back to unconfirmed if it is in neither of the block at the same height or the block at height +1 in the winning chain. Otherwise it will remain confirmed despite the chain split.

The sender can increase the transaction fees and also change the recipient of the funds which will make the former transaction invalid (Replace by Fee (RBF).
No, it won't. Broadcasting an RBF replacement does not make the original transaction invalid whatsoever. The original transaction remains entirely valid and could still be included in a block if a miner chose to do so or did not learn about the higher fee paying replacement.

if a pool only matches the speed(50%) of the rest of the network it will never catch up and always be 6 blocks behind
Your numbers are all wrong.

If you take the equations from section 11 of the whitepaper and plug in the numbers for an attacker with a probability of 0.5 of finding the next block (i.e. 50% of the hashrate), then the probability they will catch up from any deficit is 1.

You are assuming that both attacker and honest miners will mine blocks at a regular 10 minute interval. Given that there is random variance, and given an unlimited amount of time, then the attacker will in fact always catch up. With honest nodes simply following the chain with the most work, then honest miners have to stay ahead at all times, whereas the attacker only has to take the lead once for all honest nodes to then switch to their malicious chain.

Further, a 60% attack does not mean the attacker is 10% faster. If the attacker has 60% of the hashrate against an honest 40%, then the attacker is 50% faster than the rest of the network.
A 70% attack results in the attacker being 70/30 = 2.33 times faster, and an 80% attack results in the attacker being 80/20 = 4 times faster.

as you can see even after doing over 20 blocks costing millions of mining power you may only get to overtake within 20 blocks if you had like 80% of hashpower
Again, not true. With 51% of the hashrate you are mathematically guaranteed to overtake any deficit. You certainly don't need 80%.
875  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: How long to crack 24 word phrase if you know all 24 words out of order? on: August 16, 2023, 08:56:12 AM
Your password for this forum could be even a bit smaller, BUT i don't even know if you are using Uppercase or Numbers or Special, if you are using "real" words or as this case you are using random all togheter

A "secret phrase" is made by Words, and I (we) know the words, and I (we) know there are NO numbers, NO special characters, NO uppercase...
So, I very deliberately chose a password with 20 random characters drawn from uppercase, lowercase, numbers, and symbols, for my example.

There are 95 printable ASCII characters. 20 such characters gives 2095 combinations, which is 3.58*1039. This is the smallest number of characters needed to produce a password at least as strong as a 12 word seed phrase, which has 2128 combinations, which is 3.40*1038.

So even if you don't know if my password is using real words, or dates, or patterns, or numbers, or symbols, or upper or lower case, or whatever, and you have to brute force every possible combination, that password is still roughly as secure as a 12 word seed phrase, even when you know the full word list.
876  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Orbot on mobile devices for .onion for bitcoin mixing on: August 15, 2023, 01:49:00 PM
I think that on the Android version of Tor there is no option for the new Tor circuit.
You should have an option for a "New identity" on the Tor notification in the notification panel, which will give you a new circuit without closing or restarting the app.

See the section on "Managing Identities": https://tb-manual.torproject.org/mobile-tor/

If you need a whole new identity, then close the app and reopen it.
877  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Watch only wallet and privacy on: August 15, 2023, 12:51:26 PM
And if I use VPN, each time a different IP, and each time I take a new address from my addresses in Electrum, then the scammer will not be able to determine that all these addresses belong to one user, right?
Wrong, I'm afraid.

When you load an Electrum wallet, Electrum will query whichever server you are connected to for the transaction history of all the addresses in that wallet. Even if only one of them has transactions, Electrum doesn't know that until it asks. Even if you don't do anything except open your wallet and close it again, Electrum still has to ask for the history of all the addresses in that wallet. As soon as you connect to a malicious third party server, then the owner of that server can immediately link all your addresses together. The only way around this is to run your own node and your own Electrum server (this is easier than it sounds).

If you connect to a different Electrum server from a different Tor relay/VPN server/IP address for each wallet you open, then an attacker won't be able to link your wallets to each other (provided you never make a mistake, which is unlikely), but they can still link together addresses within the same wallet.
878  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Orbot on mobile devices for .onion for bitcoin mixing on: August 15, 2023, 12:43:25 PM
Actually, Tor Browser recommends Orbot for using Tor on Android.
If you want to route traffic from your other apps via Tor, then yes. But not if you want to use a browser. If that's the case, as what OP is doing here, then you should use the Tor browser.

https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-6/

Is this idea good as an alternative to Tor browser?
No, it isn't. You'll get better security with Tor due to things like NoScript and limited permissions for websites you visit, and you'll get better privacy since by using DDG via Orbot you are providing a fairly unique fingerprint which could be used to deanonymize you.

Why not just use Tor browser?
879  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: HOW CAN BITCOIN STORED IN DOWNLOADED WALLET BE RECOVERED? on: August 15, 2023, 12:28:34 PM
Now I want to understand, assuming I downloaded for instance Bitcoin Electrum wallet and maybe someday they have a hack or something, will that not affect my Bitcoin?
If your computer is hacked, then your coins are at risk, as they would be with any hot wallet. If Electrum itself is hacked then nothing happens to your coins unless you download and install the malicious version, which you will never do provided you properly verify your downloads as you should.

How can I recover my Bitcoin with my seed phrase in case of a breach of the Electrum system?
If the Electrum website and GitHub are compromised, nothing changes with your wallet and it will continue to function normally.

Furthermore, can scammers create wallets that fall into these categories with the sole aim of stealing people's fund when they have gotten popular and the number of users they target?
Electrum is fully open source and reproducible, so we know there is no malicious code in it because we can read the code ourselves.

Finally, my findings shows that Blockchain is one of the pioneer wallets that I thought was decentralized.
This is incorrect. Blockchain.com is completely centralized. It is also entirely closed source. Being a web wallet it is also the riskiest type of wallet available, as well as suffering from a number of critical vulnerabilities in the past. No one should ever use it.
880  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Local peer to peer should be allow on: August 15, 2023, 10:49:04 AM
If you want to avoid all the crazy regulations, privacy invasion, security risks, and so on which come with centralized exchanges, then choose a DEX which allows you to trade directly peer to peer with other users. Bisq is great and has already been mentioned. Other alternatives include AgoraDesk and Hodl Hodl. See here for more suggestions: https://kycnot.me/?type=exchange

Peer-to-peer is ok but there should be trust between two parties
Any good DEX will minimize the need for trust by using escrow, smart contracts, or similar. Bisq for example puts the bitcoin to be traded and security deposits in a 2-of-2 multi-sig prior to fiat changing hands.
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