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i hope all of you guys realize what type of self righteous-ethical box you've inadvertently maneuvered yourselves into.
according to you guys, even if some great new company appears that unquestionably has a superior technology that is likely to enable them to take over the market, as long as the company you've ordered at with your cc order hasn't done anything illegal to deceive, misportray, or misrepresent their product, you are ethically bound to stay with them. you are not allowed to cx your orders b/c of market events.
i will be watching.
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i hereby declare that anyone cancelling their orders via cc at any of these companies for personal or market reasons is declared unethical, shady, and a manipulator and should be subject to the full force of the law.
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Bargraphic
what specifically was the intent?
I won't bother with this merry-go-round. most ppl answer like that when they don't want their flawed logic exposed. I find it astonishing that you truly fail to see your fraud and deception to these companies regardless of their refund policy.
why aren't you reading my individual sequence of events? no one was trying to fraud KNC or megabig.  Refunds may be offered without reason at the discretion of those selling out of goodwill, but that goodwill is not to be abused when it involves procuring and assembling components with the funds raised.
well it just so happens that KNC disagrees with you on your stupid allegations of abuse. they refunded me, no problem. what say you? Did you specifically tell them that you had full intentions of inflating their order book and taking back your money when you placed the order? you still seriously think i was inflating their order book? i was talking about the market in aggregrate when a company takes cc's. you just don't want to listen. Even if you did they would likely refund you, why? Because having someone like that isn't worth having as a customer. (Which is my point that HashFast might have acted hastily with having you as a sponsor)
why? just b/c you've created in your own negative mind a malicious, unethical scenario of my action? they asked me, i didn't ask them, remember? Full Disclosure, I personally met with them too. I like HashFast and what they have to offer and I also believe in them. I just don't like people like you who try to deceive companies intentionally for their own gain.
wow, what an allegation for which you have no basis. |
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you know what? i absolutely agree. they should be here talking more but i guess that's why they brought me on board to handle all the flack. Yes, and CEO-level: understandable. But where's Sedockis, or whatever his name is: the marketing guy? It seems to me, particularly on the day that Team Avalon has announced their ("temporary") implosion, it is even more necessary to put forward a balanced, credible, front. you're right too. i'm gonna call his ass right now. |
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Refunds may be offered without reason at the discretion of those selling out of goodwill, but that goodwill is not to be abused when it involves procuring and assembling components with the funds raised.
well it just so happens that KNC disagrees with you on your stupid allegations of abuse. they refunded me, no problem. what say you? |
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If a carpenter built you handmade bespoke furniture at your request with a down payment and prior to him delivering on your mutual agreement, you revoke the contract, do you honestly think he has no legal recourse??
This is getting absurd and has nothing to do with Hashfast in their thread, and you certainly shouldn't be broadcasting such practice as acceptable, so stop it. Currently you're doing them no favours.
i really think you should stop acting like a lawyer. you're sounding absurd. a carpenter is not building $millions of USD's worth of furniture for hundreds of buyers. it's typically a one on one tx and sure, it would not be cool to cx on him after he built it. plus, he doesn't have a full refund policy for cc's on a website like KNC. |
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I'm not reproaching you for scamming the credit card & the two ASIC companies, but for pointlessly bragging about your misdeed, and the inept lies & apologia that followed.
good. then we're actually making some progress here. it's not bragging. it's an attempt to explain what i think is happening to the market in aggregate as a result of companies accepting cc's. i think it's a problem that asic companies need to be aware of and avoid if possible. all you guys keep insisting that i started out on 7/13 with my KNC order with the intent of cancelling my order. no, absolutely not. nobody knew Hashfast even existed. i didn't know that there were Bitfury's out there selling for $8000 to be delivered in October. i even consulted with some of you as to how to interpret different performance metrics of these companies as i was still learning. it's been a surprise to me how fast and how many of these companies have come into the space. as my education evolved on this topic and as new companies arrived on the scene i've moved my orders. step back a second. even if it was true that i was trying to manipulate the market, would only 1 measly order at each of the 2 companies really accomplish that? good gaud... |
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Bargraphic
what specifically was the intent?
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Not a multimillion dollar co? Could you offer a slightly more precise estimate? Less than a mil? Less than 100k? Nothing but a website and a mouthpiece who doesn't know how to lie & can't be bothered with the cap key?  why should i even bother to respond to a known troll? for scammer scam hunter is troll. please cypherdoc say why no one from HashFast is not here are they kidnapped ? day off ? in most important day in their company ? (SALES DAY) is it really you or you will say that you have been hacked ? hashfast website hacked too, fake shop without ANY OVERSEER! when sales valued of millions of dollars are going (should be) could you call them and post any notice? "WE ARE SORRY THAT YOU CANT ORDER FROM US NOW" or anything. this is fishy. very. you know what? i absolutely agree. they should be here talking more but i guess that's why they brought me on board to handle all the flack. they are all scrambling right now to get the website fixed. personally, what i think is that the principals, Simon and especially Eduardo, aren't really comfortable posting on the forum. this is just my opinion. as you know, this place is shark infested and as a result, i guess they prefer to get work done. having said that, i've informed them that it is of utmost importance for them to get their asses on here and clarify some of the terms i've intimated at. |
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I Interpreted it as illegal, which is what it is. It was more a case of I would remove that if I were you, especially if you, by your own declaration are the spokesperson of a company.
why is it illegal? i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
Irrespective of whether a company offers a no quibble guarantee you enter a contract of sale which for goods in the US is governed by the Uniform Cmmercial Code; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Codeso now you're a lawyer? you throw up a wiki page as if that's some kind of proof. amex doesn't seem to have any problem with it. paypal and multiple cc companies don't seem to have any problem with chargebacks in general for even items that get delivered as many ppl around here have discovered even after they sold various Bitcoin related items. |
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Avalon offered us Batch 3 purchasers, against the terms of their stated policy, a refund option. I don't think anyone who used that option should have any ethical qualms about it.
as has KNC. are ppl implying here that anyone who cancels their orders right up until the time of shipping for anything other than real personal dire circumstances is committing fraud? |
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Not a multimillion dollar co? Could you offer a slightly more precise estimate? Less than a mil? Less than 100k? Nothing but a website and a mouthpiece who doesn't know how to lie & can't be bothered with the cap key? why should i even bother to respond to a known troll? |
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I Interpreted it as illegal, which is what it is. It was more a case of I would remove that if I were you, especially if you, by your own declaration are the spokesperson of a company.
why is it illegal? i changed my mind. |
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i never intended to order that many as a whole simply [/color]b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward." Please explain what you were trying to say in the quoted text.
i agree that could have been worded more clearly.
i explained the evolution of my thought process and orders above. let me summarize again, just for you:
i was late ordering on July 13th for Jupiters. this put me into the October delivery batch. not ideal certainly. made plans to house them and operate them. i find out later in July that BitFury has reduced their 400GH/s boards to $8000 for October delivery. it's been recommended ad nauseum around here to "hedge your bet" across several of these companies in case one of them implodes or does a BFL. so i order some of them. only 1 order for both companies.
Hashfast comes along. i like what i read very much esp. since they're close to me. international orders worry me. i cx Jupiters and then go visit Hashfast. i like what i see and order right there on the spot. i actually wait until just a few days ago to cx my Megabig order b/c i'm still not sure about Hashfast.
certainly not an attempt to fraud anyone or maliciously hurt any company. i see this happening on a wide scale but that's just my opinion.
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you are paid to keep sales (but they are impossible, from 4 hours)
i haven't been paid a sticking cent yet. no one will until or unless this whole project flies as a successful and honest company that delivers on time and on their word. it's a startup. there's risk involved so don't order if you think they'll fail for some reason. i happen to think that won't happen as i've seen enough inside. and i've risked my own money too. but that won't stop alot of ppl around here who have their own vested interests from hoping it happens. even a simple order in at KNC makes you a vested partner of their operation in a way. |
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My intelligence is irrelevant here -- let's get back to your lying. Respond on topic.
i have responded in previous posts above. there was no intent to maliciously harm either KNC or Megabig. how could i with one stupid order? Bitcoinorama took what i said and interpreted it as malicious. not so in any way. anyone who reads the post i put up above can easily relate to my thought processes as this has evolved. i happen to know this is what ppl are doing as some have shared with me the fact that they have cancelled orders at KNC to move over to HashFast. it's a fact of life. get over it. |
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what you say would be true if all those companies and the information about them existed or evolved at the same time. they don't. it's an evolution as i just described. the relative value of these companies and their products are changing as each week goes by. we, as consumers, have every right to change our minds as the markets evolve and the facts change.
Except you didn't act like a normal consumer who waits and then bases their decision after time, you went in with the full intent to defraud one or all of these companies. yes, then don't order.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
... You can try to paint a different picture but these are your very own words. Then to try to clear your name you start pointing fingers at bitcoinorama to push the attention to him, less integrity with each post. if i wanted to artificially inflate the internal expectations at both those companies i would have put thru a $1M order. You have clearly stated what you wanted to do and what you perceived you have done. It's right there in red boldface. I agree your actions most likely didn't cause much damage, which only makes them petty, not justifiable. i clearly explained the evolution of my thinking and if you can't understand that my original intent was to actually receive those machines then heaven help you for your negativity.
Your intent was always to charge back most of your orders, denying that after explicitly stating " ...cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end" is lying. I'm not surprised that you lie, but by the ineptitude and artlessness of your lies. from someone who trolls every ASIC developer thread out there. if you don't have the ability to distinguish someone talking in the 3rd person you are as dumb as you appear. your allegations are dumb and inept. any comment here? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270384.msg2898990#msg2898990please dont say bullshit yep. they are having trouble handling the order flow b/c of a poorly designed cart along with Bitpay not being able to handle the flow. i'm just as disappointed as you. they're working on it. |
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perhaps b/c i actually believe they have a chance to accomplish what they want? and perhaps b/c i actually went there and did some due diligence? and perhaps since i've never lied or cheated anyone around here esp. my subscribers?
ppl get paid to endorse products and companies all the time. is it all just a waste of money?
i'm trying to be balanced as best i can and not overhype anything or denigrate the competition. hopefully i'm just pointing out the facts but if anyone wants to point out otherwise they're free to do so.
If you're getting paid, could we bother you to type on something with a frickin' shift key? Not bothering with grammar is a bit disrespectful -- multi-million dollar companies deserve better. i get the sincere feeling you're jealous. fact is, they are not a multimillion dollar company. they are a startup and stand to lose everything. i stand to lose my orders just like everyone else too. and if they fail or cheat everyone i stand to lose my reputation. it's definitely a risk that you've made clear you'd very much like to happen just b/c of who you are. |
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what you say would be true if all those companies and the information about them existed or evolved at the same time. they don't. it's an evolution as i just described. the relative value of these companies and their products are changing as each week goes by. we, as consumers, have every right to change our minds as the markets evolve and the facts change.
Except you didn't act like a normal consumer who waits and then bases their decision after time, you went in with the full intent to defraud one or all of these companies. yes, then don't order.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
... You can try to paint a different picture but these are your very own words. Then to try to clear your name you start pointing fingers at bitcoinorama to push the attention to him, less integrity with each post. if i wanted to artificially inflate the internal expectations at both those companies i would have put thru a $1M order. You have clearly stated what you wanted to do and what you perceived you have done. It's right there in red boldface. I agree your actions most likely didn't cause much damage, which only makes them petty, not justifiable. i clearly explained the evolution of my thinking and if you can't understand that my original intent was to actually receive those machines then heaven help you for your negativity.
Your intent was always to charge back most of your orders, denying that after explicitly stating " ...cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end" is lying. I'm not surprised that you lie, but by the ineptitude and artlessness of your lies. from someone who trolls every ASIC developer thread out there. if you don't have the ability to distinguish someone talking in the 3rd person you are as dumb as you appear. your allegations are dumb and inept. |
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TL;DR ~ you are their Inaba?
Why should anyone care what your opinion is, since you are being paid to give it?
perhaps b/c i actually believe they have a chance to accomplish what they want? and perhaps b/c i actually went there and did some due diligence? and perhaps since i've never lied or cheated anyone around here esp. my subscribers? ppl get paid to endorse products and companies all the time. is it all just a waste of money? i'm trying to be balanced as best i can and not overhype anything or denigrate the competition. hopefully i'm just pointing out the facts but if anyone wants to point out otherwise they're free to do so. |
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