I use them all the time. Just bought a cleaning mat a few mins ago. It was not until I started spending them that I really understood why they will change the world.
I want to do this! But it will actually cost me 6% extra for each purchase. A least my transactions can be anonymous and I don't need to give people my card details, but most people don't care about this. If bitcoin purchases are going to actually cost them more then we really have a problem. I hope the bitcoin entrepreneurs are thinking of solutions. 6% sucks. I look for places that offer a discount for using them. Places like Overstock and Amagimetals have a bitcoin rate that passes some of their savings on to you. They should not be charging you more as they save 3% when you use BTC instead of a credit card. It is also far more secure for the seller. If you paid with a credit card it will take days to clear and verify your identity. With bitcoin as soon as it confirms they are paid and done. I know some merchants do give discounts. But I will lose the 6% in actually buying bitcoin. If the merchant gives a 3% discount then my loss is reduced to 3%. I guess this is a british problem. We need an exchange for us. |
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The price will always be what people are paying on the exchanges and not some number we want it to be. There is only supply and demand in BTC. If you want bitcoins to be $500 each then you are going to have to convince every bitcoin owner on the planet to not sell for less. The exchange price is "The Price".
No, the supply and demand is not just on exchanges. Yes exchanges do determine the prices but we need to find other solutions. I'm not sure what other options they are? Whatever price I pick will be meaningless. I could say gold is $200 and Oz., But no exchange would sell for that price so it's all in my head. I find that Google does a good job with their weighted price from many exchanges. Weighted advantages are a bit less volatile. Maybe that is more inline with what your thinking? I don't know what solutions there are. This is why I am asking. |
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I use them all the time. Just bought a cleaning mat a few mins ago. It was not until I started spending them that I really understood why they will change the world.
I want to do this! But it will actually cost me 6% extra for each purchase. A least my transactions can be anonymous and I don't need to give people my card details, but most people don't care about this. If bitcoin purchases are going to actually cost them more then we really have a problem. I hope the bitcoin entrepreneurs are thinking of solutions. |
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The price will always be what people are paying on the exchanges and not some number we want it to be. There is only supply and demand in BTC. If you want bitcoins to be $500 each then you are going to have to convince every bitcoin owner on the planet to not sell for less. The exchange price is "The Price".
No, the supply and demand is not just on exchanges. Yes exchanges do determine the prices but we need to find other solutions. |
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Many of us keep our coins in cold wallets and they do not get used at all.
I have been thinking about buying extra coins just so I can use them to buy things. I want to help the bitcoin ecosystem and encourage adoption. However it occurred to me that it will cost me more just to do that!
I am a Brit and we don't have any exchanges to buy coins at market rates. I will have to go to localbitcoins or bitbargain.co.uk and these sell at a premium*. Thus I need to actually buy coins at much higher than market prices and then use them to buy things with the coins being at market price. It's a loss for me.
If I was in the USA I would use circle.com and buy the coins with a card. I would need to pay card fees and then buy products with bitcoin at normal price! Again a loss.
If I used an exchange I would still have to pay trading and withdrawal fees. Again I actually need to spend extra just to use bitcoin. This is a real shame.
Merchants really need to make bitcoin purchases cheaper so that we have an incentive to buy those coins and use them. We are saving them card fees, so they can at least cut those fees from the cost. However they don't.
* the cheapest coins at bitbargain right now are £164 which equates to $254. Last price on bitfinex was $239! That is a huge difference. Us brits need an exchange that allows for sterling transfers.
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I need to reiterate my point.
The transaction volume is going up but the volume on the exchanges is not. This highlights my point. Greater adoption/activity does not necessitate greater volume on the exchanges. The volume on the exchanges will always be a major weak point for the volatility.
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$450
I will actually be happy with that!
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Out of all the countries in the world at least one will have a major financial incident sometime soon. Another thing could be if bitcoin is made very user friendly a new type of non tech person could become involved.
I am not sure about soon but yes in the next few years it is likely that one country will face difficulties. Well if one country goes down , and it is a big one, then expect the rest to follow. It will be a domino effect Very unlikely that it will be a big one. |
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Out of all the countries in the world at least one will have a major financial incident sometime soon. Another thing could be if bitcoin is made very user friendly a new type of non tech person could become involved.
I am not sure about soon but yes in the next few years it is likely that one country will face difficulties. |
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You've gotta admit that the bullish sentiment was refreshing though. It was going on for like multiple days.
This is true! Well let's hope it comes back. We need it! Bitcoin needs it. |
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Are you not aware there are people making a concerted effort to push the price up, then down, then back up again so they can make money?
Its pretty much common knowledge now.
Bitcoin price changes have nothing to do with organic activity, response to news, or anything you are trained to look for.
Its simply whales playing in the water.
-B-
This I do know but they can only gain little amounts each time from this - unless they are doing insider trading. If you push the price up then you need suckers who will buy with you so the whale also has to buy along with the suckers when pumping. Thus there isn't a huge amount to gain if the whale's own buying is a part of the price pump. |
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The latest dump and consequent slow downward trend has made me realise that the last up trend was not caused by new comers - it was caused by us. If newcomers were having an impact on the price then we wouldn't have this down trend.
What happened is that some guy decided to dump and the bitcoiners stopped buying out of fear.
Let's face it we are on our own right now without newbie buyers. Any sort of mass adoption is 20 years away. It's time to stop looking at the graphs and dreaming of the moon every hour. The moon will come in the distant future when we are old.
Everyone who could be an early adopter is already one. The geeks and foresighted people have already joined. The laypersons will now not join until they have incentives. Thus there will be no more big bubbles in the near future. The rush of people who could have caused a bubble have come and gone. Now all we await is a small trickle of others to join us for the upcoming years. No more bubbles an time soon. Just a very slow and volatile grind upwards. Bubbles will happen with incentives and I see no incentive at all except a financial crisis that entails hyperinflation or banks repossessing money.
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21,000,000 * 100,000,000 = 2,100,000,000,000,000 Satoshis
This isn't enough for a global currency.
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We dont even need a single exchange, localbitcoin average sell/buy would be the price.
When it comes to Localbitcoins, all the prices are based on a exchange price, plus or minus the sellers/buyers % rate. And this is the big problem. |
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I think Morgan understands the problems with fiat.
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The different exchanges 'follow' each other because of arbitrage and the (wonderful) property named 'fungibility' which Bitcoin possesses!
... E.g. there is a dump on Bitfinex, then the Chinese exchanges follow that dump. I can't see how arbitrage can work at all in that situation. You then need to transfer from Yuan back to Dollars. There simply isn't enough time to do that. ... My understanding is that fiat & btc is kept in both exchanges by the people doing arbitrage. Buy on one exchange, Sell on the other. They aren't usually depositing/withdrawing constantly, as you said, there isn't enough time. Also, i think most of the arbitrage traders are automated bot traders. This doesn't work. I have done the calculations and could not find a viable way in which this works. If you can prove that it is arbitrage that is responsible for the exchanges following each-other, then my whole OP is redundant. I contend that when a dump happens on one exchange then the people on the other exchanges follow due to panic/hope. Arbitrage is responsible from moment to moment, 24/7, mostly with bots, when there is no panic/hope or dump. When there is a dump, the exchanges follow each other (arbitrage is not the purpose, but to cut losses), because of (1) the people on that exchange selling, (2) peoples call settings they previously set activating, & (3) trading bots cutting losses. You can't really arbitrage during a dump. If you could, that might be possible insider information and was a pump & dump scheme. A dump is the best time for arbitrage. I know how to code bots and I can tell you that when there is little volatility it's much harder to find enough time to do arbitrage. |
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I'm really curious whether these threads are really launched in order to try to influence the price.
Given that some old-timers are making these posts - It might be the case. |
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The different exchanges 'follow' each other because of arbitrage and the (wonderful) property named 'fungibility' which Bitcoin possesses!
... E.g. there is a dump on Bitfinex, then the Chinese exchanges follow that dump. I can't see how arbitrage can work at all in that situation. You then need to transfer from Yuan back to Dollars. There simply isn't enough time to do that. ... My understanding is that fiat & btc is kept in both exchanges by the people doing arbitrage. Buy on one exchange, Sell on the other. They aren't usually depositing/withdrawing constantly, as you said, there isn't enough time. Also, i think most of the arbitrage traders are automated bot traders. This doesn't work. I have done the calculations and could not find a viable way in which this works. If you can prove that it is arbitrage that is responsible for the exchanges following each-other, then my whole OP is redundant. I contend that when a dump happens on one exchange then the people on the other exchanges follow due to panic/hope. |
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The different exchanges 'follow' each other because of arbitrage and the (wonderful) property named 'fungibility' which Bitcoin possesses!
I have big doubts about this. It is not possible to transfer fiat from one exchange to another so quickly. It seems like one exchange has a change in price and the others follow like sheep. This is my contention. If arbitrage was the actual reason then my op would be redundant. E.g. there is a dump on Bitfinex, then the Chinese exchanges follow that dump. I can't see how arbitrage can work at all in that situation. You then need to transfer from Yuan back to Dollars. There simply isn't enough time to do that. So it looks like exchanges have too much influence on the price. |
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