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9401  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How many people never plan to repatriate BTC to FIAT on: April 17, 2013, 01:47:53 AM
I get paid in fiat. So if I have monthly expenses those are taken care of with FRNs if I cannot pay with bitcoins.


Other than that, I convert all the rest to bitcoins.

I reserved 1 bitcoin to pay off my mortgage. Though I would rather just pay a mortgage company in bitcoins.
9402  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [IDEA] Credit card based speculative Bitcoin exchange on: April 17, 2013, 01:11:32 AM
A rating per person would make it easier like on BTCJam where people are willing to loan out bitcoins to people who could disappear.
I think instead of finding people who are willing to hold the risk of a default, you should come up with a mechanism to make credit card payments irreversible.

Good luck with that.
9403  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [IDEA] Credit card based speculative Bitcoin exchange on: April 16, 2013, 11:53:45 PM
Thoughts?
You're giving incentives for the wrong kind of behavior.

The fact remains that most people have credit cards and do not understand the whole thing about jumping through so many hoops just to get a bitcoin.

Paying for risk is part of how the market works. People are willing to take risks in exchange for money.

A rating per person would make it easier like on BTCJam where people are willing to loan out bitcoins to people who could disappear.
9404  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [IDEA] Credit card based speculative Bitcoin exchange on: April 16, 2013, 11:42:02 PM
They may not ask you what you are selling, but would you want to risk your account suddenly being shut down due to a ToS violation?

Good point.

Though I guess in theory that would just be part of the risk that people would have to compensate for.

The earliest trades would likely be very costly since, as been pointed out, without being established and not knowing the payment processor's stance on it the risk factor is huge.
9405  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [IDEA] Credit card based speculative Bitcoin exchange on: April 16, 2013, 11:38:06 PM
If there was a way to use the nTimLock feature, you could escrow the bitcoins for the 120 day period.

Anything I have done as far as looking into the bitcoin time lock capabilities is that it is mainly client side and you are basically freezing your own funds from your client which then has to unfreeze the funds when the time comes.
9406  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [IDEA] Credit card based speculative Bitcoin exchange on: April 16, 2013, 11:29:38 PM
The biggest drawback was just that people couldn't get access to their coins for 120 days. I don't think that is a big obstacle.

The key part of that is that they could get bitcoins if they are willing to pay more. Buy 1.2 BTC for $120 then trade your red coin for a full bitcoin worth $100.

1 bitcoin on ebay is going for over $110 (at the current exchange rate of $60).
9407  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [IDEA] Credit card based speculative Bitcoin exchange on: April 16, 2013, 11:26:11 PM
The biggest nightmare on this is actually getting a processor willing to deal with you. We've been looking at several for crypto.pm and it's an absolute fucking nightmare.

Interesting. The product being sold is a red token. I wonder how video game sites like Second Life do it.

I had a payment processor but do not recall them asking what I would be selling (maybe they did, I do not recall).
9408  Bitcoin / Project Development / [IDEA] Credit card based speculative Bitcoin exchange on: April 16, 2013, 11:15:58 PM
There are many people frustrated with figuring out how to get into bitcoins. It has been shown that people who use PayPal would be willing to spend more per BTC than those going through the exchanges.

The main reason people will not exchange bitcoins via credit cards is because of chargebacks, you could give someone your bitcoins after they pay with a credit card only to have them disappear with your BTC and get their money back onto their card leaving you with nothing.

Most credit card companies have different time scales for different charge backs, the longest being 120 days (from a quick check on Visa).

So, what if we had an exchange that allowed you to pay with a credit card and when you do the purchase the exchange buys bitcoins on your behalf but holds them for you for 120 days. What you receive instead is a bitcoin equivalent credit or colored or slightly transparent coin (however the site wants to do it).

But what you can do with these coins once you get them is trade them on that exchange. Based upon the amount of time that has passed from the time you bought them to the time they actually get switched out for real bitcoins they will vary in value based upon what people are willing to pay.

Say bitcoin is $100/BTC. You go to pay with your credit card and pay $100 (plus credit card fees). You buy 1 BTC for $100. The site buys 1 BTC at $100 and pegs it to your purchase and gives you a red 4 month coin.

You notice on the site that someone is willing to trade .8 bitcoins for a red 4 month coin. You need the bitcoins for something else so you do the trade.

Now the guy with the red 4 month coin holds the coin for a month so it is now an orange 3 month coin. He notices that someone is willing to trade .8 light green 2 week coin for an orange 3 month coin. He has a bitcoin hosting service payment coming up in 2 weeks so he makes the trade.

He waits 2 weeks and the light green coin turns dark green until the final day of the 120 days it turns into a solid bitcoin which the site then transfers to the holder of the coin. He can now take the coin out and use it in his wallet for whatever he wants.

The original person could have waited the 120 days to get the one bitcoin as well.

But people would be motivated to trade based upon the risk of someone doing a charge back. You could even have credit ratings for each person based upon amount of trades and if they have ever done a charge back.

It would allow for easier entry into using bitcoins on the trading side allowing people to pay extra to use their credit card to buy bitcoins (users could be willing to trade their full bitcoin for 1.2 red 4 month bitcoins from an AAA rated seller for example).

Thoughts?
9409  Other / Off-topic / Re: Bitcoin 410 richest addresses, updated often. on: April 16, 2013, 10:14:00 PM
I like to check periodically for how many coins are required to be in the top 410.

It used to be 1-2k would be enough. Now 3k is the low end.

I guess that is party a factor of more bitcoins in the system? Or would it be watching in real time the effect of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer?
9410  Economy / Speculation / Re: :( on: April 16, 2013, 06:29:33 AM
oh come on we didn't have such crybabies in 2011, where are you coming from

We all blamed bad things on "the manipulator".

Quote
August 10, 2011
Looks like the market manipulator is back. But for how long?

August 25, 2011
Holy CRAP the manipulator has pulled out!!!!! Freefall seems inevitable

September 07, 2011
Looks like the Manipulator is back in the market. Buy-hold-SELL SELL SELL

September 19, 2011
serious discussion on the strategy of the manipulator. Please no flame posts

September 21, 2011
A Prayer to The Manipulator

October 04, 2011
The manipulator is back!!!

October 20, 2011
No, There is no manipulator

October 22, 2011
The Manipulator

October 24, 2011
Manipulator pulled out at $2.00, he has given up, $1.00 he we come

October 27, 2011
Manipulator Exposed!

October 27, 2011
Requests to Santa Manipulator

October 29, 2011
I am the The Manipulator.

November 14, 2011
The Myth of the Manipulator

November 14, 2011
Manipulator manipulating on an unprecedented level

November 19, 2011
Pictures Of The Manipulator

November 19, 2011
I like the manipulator, I had him all wrong, he is robbing you fools

November 19, 2011
We were all heading to cheap bitcoins, until the manipulator stepped in

November 19, 2011
Manipulator wall behaviour

November 20, 2011
Our manipulator appears to be selling now
9411  Other / Off-topic / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers on: April 16, 2013, 06:25:11 AM
Until this questions are not answered, and I am pretty sure the person/group behind this project can read this, we should really reconsider buying in until we get some answers. If this is going to get big, this questions will always hunt us until they are answered.

Got someone in your pocket?
9412  Economy / Speculation / Re: Dirty Fiat Money on: April 16, 2013, 05:53:05 AM
...or by the family, or by their investments, or by charity.
Not by hoarding currency Wink


I have used some of those words in my text here but unregulated isn't really true. Bitcoins is the most tightly regulated currency in the world Smiley It is mathematically regulated which frankly is key to its success. Who the heck would use a currency which is completely unregulated?

In fact part of the failure of the US Fed and some other modern central banks is their de-regulation. They are no longer controlled by set standards or by the democratic process but by a pseudo-private, quasi-secluded council which is "independent" from government policy.

Ahh...someone who actually understands what the term regulate means.

Your professor would not. In liberal speak, to regulate is to use the government to make something better.

As opposed to during the days when your rifle would be "well regulated" if it was in proper working order and checked to make sure it would shoot if needed. It was that definition they meant when talking of a well regulated militia in the Constitution.
9413  Economy / Speculation / Re: Dirty Fiat Money on: April 16, 2013, 05:27:09 AM

I joined here because I was doing research for a possible university paper that now might go into an other direction than bitcoins.

If it is for a university paper you will do well to bash the hell out of Bitcoin and highlight things such as "its creator is an unknown person!" and "a depreciating currency is bound to fail because nobody will spend".

You are well on your way with your response that old people should be taken care of by the state. Being a university paper I would also expand that to include minorities and the poor and lower middle class.

Here are some buzz words:
Keynes
ponzi scheme
bubble
unregulated


A+ for sure.

(I used to write outlandishly liberal papers for high grades to get through college myself, gotta look out for number 1)
9414  Economy / Speculation / Re: How does it feel to not sell at $250+ on: April 16, 2013, 05:16:06 AM
I have the same amount of coins from before it started going up and the same amount of coins coming back down (outside of my regular spending).

Feels good.

The only difference is now you have to spend 4x more coins for the same goods or services.
which means more fiat has to come into exchanges, which means BTC value will rise.....

I don't quite understand your point.  First I don't agree with the correlation that more money into exchanges means more BTC value.  Second this would imply that any drop in Dollars/BTC would be met with an increase in Dollars/BTC.

I guess it would mean more dollars per BTC.
9415  Economy / Speculation / Re: How does it feel to not sell at $250+ on: April 16, 2013, 05:14:23 AM
I have the same amount of coins from before it started going up and the same amount of coins coming back down (outside of my regular spending).

Feels good.

The only difference is now you have to spend 4x more coins for the same goods or services.

Ya, but my last 3-4 paychecks have been going toward saving up to pay the IRS.

Now that the IRS is paid I have many more paychecks ahead of me for buying as opposed to the one small(ish) buy I made in early February.

Consistent moving of dollars into bitcoins enables consistent purchasing goods and services with bitcoins. No matter the price.
9416  Economy / Speculation / Re: I want to be a bull... on: April 16, 2013, 05:10:10 AM
Just curious, is mine?  I'm pretty sure I've picked up a few ignores.  How can you tell now

Yours is white.

I was going to ignore you at one point because I was tired of seeing the word bubble.

But you have been consistent and are not combative about it.
9417  Economy / Speculation / Re: How does it feel to not sell at $250+ on: April 16, 2013, 05:05:24 AM
I have the same amount of coins from before it started going up and the same amount of coins coming back down (outside of my regular spending).

Feels good.
9418  Economy / Speculation / Re: At what price does someone corner the market? on: April 16, 2013, 05:04:19 AM
Corner the market and do what with it?
9419  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Should Peter Vessenes resign as the Executive Director for Bitcoin Foundation ? on: April 16, 2013, 05:02:02 AM



We’d be happy to be regulated,” said Vessenes


I hate regulations but I believe bitcoin would be more stable if somebody could regulate it

What do you mean by more stable, and how would it be regulated. Do you mean that for example the US Govt should start the printing press, and inject dollars in the exchanges, and run bots to keep the exchange rate stable ?

Don't you think the exchange rate will become stable when the market cap grows and become bigger ?

well, i'm looking at this from merchant point of view. I need stable rate so I dont have to worry about selling coins every hour. As long as soft  regulates coins it will always be what it is today. It will never go mainstream  the way it is now. I'm not sure how it needs to be regulated but I think it needs human input just like US gov does to market

Bitpay allows people to pay with bitcoins and you can either keep it in bitcoins or get the dollar rate at that time. Why would you have to worry about the rate?
9420  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin debit card on: April 16, 2013, 04:46:33 AM
Whatever happened to the BitInstant Mastercard?

Other, more important things, have been in the works.

http://www.talkbitcoins.com/talk-bitcoins/founder-of-bitinstant-accepts-bitcoins-at-his-new-york-city-bar/114/

Quote
Bitinstant founder accepts Bitcoins at New York City bar
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