He is not into bitcoin or crypto in general. He is against it specially bitcoin. First you have to understand where the guy is coming from. He is old school, he doesn't invest on anything he feels very volatile and based on pure speculation, like bitcoin. And you can search a lot on the internet about why is against bitcoin. Although there are a lot of financial institutions who are now seeing bitcoin as a good investment instrument, he is still not sold on crypto. But we should respect the man, he is a multi billionaire, we can't deny that. But it doesn't mean that everything he says is 100% accurate. He also have invested on others that didn't succeed. So as much as we love him for being a good investor, maybe crypto's in not for him, this is the new era, a new revolution, he is as old school investors as you can find, so it only makes sense that he will stay away from crypto will others are already making millions from it.

I have to agree with you. Lately, I have been seeing lots of tweets from John himself specially about shitcoins. LOL. And I don't think as well that the hackers will simply bribe someone from inside to get his info. John has been hugging the limelight lately and for me this is a sign that he clearly wants to be relevant specially that crypto is booming. I already remember that there's some article asking if he is a "manipulator" or "influencer". So I say that as they it a way for him to really stay a float of the news and somewhat still significant to the crypto world. He can even sue AT&T for that, but what did he do? he talks to the media again. And yeah, he is never been shy from all the media attention that he is getting lately.

Do you really understand what you are saying here? What loopholes are you talking about btw? Security? What about it? bitcoin and crypto's are very secure because of the underlying technologies. If you are talking about hacks, its not bitcoin's fault, its those users that don't secure that wallets. We are our own banks if you have bitcoins so its really our responsibility to protect it. I don't know how are satisfied with banks. Its credit my dear, meaning you own them something. That's one way a banks that really put you in debt. But as for cyptos replacing fiat, we can be in a cashless society, but I don't think that we can totally eliminate fiat money. No government will simply allow that to happened. IMHO. It's already a established fact that governments around the world needed fiat in order to survived. Is the only leverage that a nation is holding that keeps its very existence.

You speculating that bitcoin can go down to $10,000? I have seen worst, predicting that it will go down $7500-$8000. No one can say for certain where the price is heading, it can go to $20,0000 at the start of the year or plummeted to $7500-$8000. So that is the lowest I think that bitcoin can go. But we all know what follows a crash, people started to buy pushing the price go to even further. I really don't know what's the atmosphere around, but it looks like there's a lot of people started to panic selling bitcoin because there's a lot of speculation that it will go down in the next coming days. For me, if the price go low below $10,000 I see it as a perfect buying opportunity not just for me but for all of us specially who have been waiting to get bitcoin at a cheap price. Nevertheless, I still optimistic that 2018 will usher a new era and new shot to gain profits once more, so just continue to hold and don't panic and think of your bitcoin as a long term investment

I skipped reading page 4 because I already got his point:

1. Bitcoin is based on speculation
2. Bitcoin can be manipulated

But I don't know where is the scam in there?

And his analogy is very crappy as well. I'm not familiar with the author but just like any other written articles out there. Most of the time they are all garbage and just riding on the popularity of bitcoin to write something that sometimes is doesn't really make sense at all. And Yes, I(WE) understand his point no need to rub it in. That's why we almost reminded newbies who is opening thread asking advises about what bitcoin is and we told them the truth. Its not a quick rich scheme,  the market is speculative and there are big entities from behind who manipulates the price, which are the whales. Nothing that I can found in the articles that we haven't already know. What a complete rubbish article if you are going to ask me.

Of course the only way not to loose your tokens or bitcoin is to really stop gambling. But the questions is can you? For an addicted gambler to really quit, it should come from within inside. Just maybe, you wake up and just tell yourself that you are going to quit. The only reason that I was able to quit gambling is because I don't have the money to begin with. But now, since I'm earning decent amount from my business, I started to go back to land based casino, but this time I have total control of myself and I just play for time and just enough money in my pocket. Its indeed a very unhealthy specially in your pocket, but those who are addicted didn't see this. What their mindset is that all the tokens or bitcoin is just for gambling and in the end, everything is gone in an instant.

At the beginning or shall I say during my journey in trading, I was also somewhat a victim of holding tokens and shitcoins that don't have a value at all. Hold them for a minimum of 6 months and every time I checked the price, it continuously dropping. But when its been pump, I already too late. LOL. That's why I just decided one day to sell them at whatever price instead of me loosing sleep trying and trying to wait for the perfect time to dump them and take profit. And yes its really funny that even most of us who have been in trading for so long will make the same mistakes.


Hah, I stop telling all my friends because they really don't trust me. LOL. How many times did I tell them? I lost count at all. And now when they see that bitcoin  goes to $19,000 and almost touching $20,000 they keep on asking how much I profited. That's why I initially said that its really their lost if they don't want to invest on bitcoin because they keep hearing negative news about it. They should also get a huge financial windfall if they just listen to me months ago.

Really sad to see but Vitalik is somewhat saying the truth here. Bitcoin has been turning into a circus act, everyone wants to get a hold of it. Just look at how many forks bitcoin has which disrupts it in a negative way. Bitcoin Cash is one example. The constant debate argument and then bitcoin become a playground for the big boys spinning bitcoin to become one of the best investment asset. Amir Taaki though is very different, he doesn't like what bitcoin direction as well, we all know for a fact that this guy fight for cause and he's tweet is very understandable on his part. He is very frustrated. But both of them has really one thing in common: This is not what they started, not what they want and as @figmentofmyass have said, it's becoming to be a  "a shift in wealth distribution and technology".

I haven't tried to used Binance because not that I don't like it, but I just used trading platforms which fits my need. But what I have seen is that is your own fault OP, sorry to tell you that. I myself have some few issues with the trading platform that I used, and you know what I do? I open tickets, if I didn't get a response from them, I go on social media to try and draw their attentions. Its very effective way because I have issues resolved after that. So I advise you to go that route as well. You also need to understand that crypto world suddenly explodes that a lot of users started flocking on a lot of trading platforms that sometimes they have a difficult task to handle the support tickets. I'm sure that everyday, there are thousands of traders opening ticket, so maybe your ticket is in a queue or something. And not only you have been issues with Binance or any trading platform for that matter.

This is correct mate, both parties should be open to make the transaction successful. The only question is what if the other parties chooses to close its channel? What will happen to the transaction. There's also this sort of broadcasting previous channels as well, but I need to read more and understand how everything stands out. If more technical people like @HCP can chime in it will be a good discussions for all of us.


Yes, there will be sort of learning curve not just for newbies but for all of us because this will be a new technology. So many good reads around the net, like in medium but sometimes you need to filter out which info is correct.

---

On the bright side, this is really a welcoming news. Since a heard a few weeks that they have been testing it, this is the first time I saw that a live production test is successful. We all have been talking about Lightning Network to be the solution so I hope it will be implemented in Q1 next year so that all this issues can be fix ASAP. However, I'm expecting a lot of problems in the beginning, but I think we can get a hang on it after a few months of using it ourselves. Goodluck to everyone and let see how it goes.

Yes, bitcoin is illegal in Bangladesh so I will have concerns if you engaged on it. So I advise you to be very careful. I don't know what the penalty is so you better be careful. If you really want to go trading and if you have a localbitcoin then I will take that route, but then again, it's a big risk on your end, and I'm not sure if there's really one in your country. I really don't understand why Bangladesh is against bitcoin though, there's a lot of Asian nations who are into bitcoin and those who have been into it are getting huge amount of profit up to this time. You are just very unlucky mate, because some of your neighboring countries are enjoying it, you guys are hiding in the closet away from the prying eyes of the government.

I don't think that fiat will be go useless here. Look at Japan, they have legalizes bitcoin already but the YEN still exist. So I can't really think that fiat even in the next 50-100 years will become valueless as you have said. As far as the effects on the economy, it will be minimal and its gonna be on a positive side. For countries like in Asia as well,  they all love crypto's but not all the population is getting into it, only a small percentage of the total population. So how can I small portion affects the economic status of their country? South Korea is very far as engaging in crypto is concern, but we never heard that they their economic situations is going on a downward spin because of crypto. And the positive effect of crypto is that those few are earning and having a good financial profit because of trading. So for me it will not put a significant dent of the economy on the other hand it will help it because people cashing out will have a purchasing power.

If you want to at least get around with the high fees in Exodus, I suggest you go directly to shapeshift and do your own exchange. It's really a good wallet and one of its advantage is that it can hold multiple coins at the same time. Electrum only hold bitcoins.


Personally, I'm been using Exodus for quite some time time and I must say that its one of the best wallet for multi coins holdings. But if you are just going to used it just for bitcoins, then I suggest that you go and used Electrum instead, for me its the best wallet besides the Core. Electrum will let you hold your own private keys, meaning you have total control of it, plus you can adjust the fees dynamically depending on your needs.

I also don't think that this slump that we are seeing is caused by Bitcoin Cash, they have done their share of attacking bitcoin, but they are not successful. So for now, step aside Bitcoin Cash they have nothing to do with it. As for altcoins like XRP, I could only speculate that bitcoin investors are moving and shifting funds across to XRP, it has been pump at more than 50%, so it could be another contributing factor. Another is that is just the holidays, people cashing out spending their profits in this season, Its already Dec. 31 here at the other side of the planet, I have cash out myself so I attribute everything in the holidays. 2017 is almost over, and once everything has settled down, maybe we can see in the second week of January that trading will pick up once, and we may see bitcoin going up again. No need to worry and panic at this time.

Yes, I really think that people are just cashing out for the holidays. And may I remind that bitcoin is always like this, sometimes it doesn't go where we want it to be. Bitcoin dominance still at almost 40% and no need to panic here. That's why I said that I'm done with bitcoin for this year, but it gets me thinking though, if the price continues to go down, I might buy a few bitcoin once more. I'm looking forward to 2018 because I can smell a good year for all of us. We may have seen some dips before the end of the year, but for those who have funds I suggest that you bought it at this rate because its down to $12,000 already. Nothing to worry, you just HOLD and buy it if you can and just wait till the year concluded and let's join and see a better 2018 for all of us.

Most of us here really buy bitcoins in the very beginning of their career though you will here stories of members here joining signature campaign and used it as a stepping stone for their trading career. However, for those who haven't have the chance to really join a campaign, buying is the best options only and not all traders want to join campaign as well. So people do really buys coins with their real money. Others who have a different method, every pay days they set aside money to be invested in bitcoin or other crypto's as well. And @Kunlejoe0, first time that I heard your story dude, congrats and I hope that others will see it as inspirations and others will follow your strategy. I admire your resiliency for buying and staying in crypto's for the last 4 years. Truly amazing story and one for the books as well.

I have a bad experiences with banks though in my country and that they keep denying me opening an account because simply they think my source of income (bitcoin) comes from illegal ways. Until I found a bank, which is very far away from my place and they are too lenient. And there's a news going around as well, that one of the biggest banks here will not accept crypto specially if you are going to transfer from our exchanges to that local bank. This is a big surprise for me because Australia is the second country to accept and legalize bitcoin. Why are Australian banks waging this uncanny war to begin with? Of course if I'm a Australian bitcoiners I will complain as well because the government itself embrace bitcoin and now banks are f***ing rejecting them? WTF?

Yeah, I already read that in the Press Release section as well and my reaction is that criminals are taking it on the next level. But don't blame bitcoins though, its not its fault, they have exploited a hole in bitcoins design. The only thing that I'm afraid of is that criminals have set a precedent, kidnappers and extortionist asking to be payed in crypto's like bitcoin. One thing though that I wanted to see is that authorities will really go after them because this is not just a scam or a hack. Lives already involved here, at least since its been sensationalized and the bitcoin address should be track and unmask the people or group of people who are behind this kidnapping.

As demand goes higher, the price increases, the FEE's goes to the roof as well. That's the biggest negative effect of the increasing demand of bitcoin. Casuals or ordinary investors can't buy because the price is very expensive that right now the landscape is changing. Its now beginning to be the playground of the big boys. But I don't call it a negative effect, just part and parcels of bitcoin gaining popular nowadays. Solutions though is on the horizon, like Lightning Network which has been tested and soon to be implemented. Only question is when. Right now, its very sad that we are experiencing a high transaction fees, and can't do anything and we are at the mercy of the miners, however, we need a little patience until a better solutions have been in place.

There are two sets of people that you have talked to. The first group of people you have talked is knows nothing and just want to earn quick bucks by investing on cloud mining sites, however, there are only few trusted mining sites that really give you good returns, and most of them are scams. While the second set of people, are really traders and have been in the business too long that they have earning big bucks already. They know the ins and outs and have been in the industry for so long and experience says that is the best way, not investing in cloud mining. Reason to the second set of people that you have meet, they know what they are saying and you should try it. Trading is risky YES, they are right, but the risk comes with big rewards as well.