Trying to say that the 3600 bitcoins created daily is part of that 75000 as opposed to that 10+ million is misleading.
Taking the trend of the Bitcoin economy as a whole, only about $3,500 of mined bitcoins need to be sucked up by buyers each day to simply maintain the current price.
I'm assuming you got that $3,500 by taking the same percentage of 3600 BTC, as that 0.6% of total BTC that is traded. But this is clearly wrong. Holding 10 million BTC does not create those running costs. Mining does, and market forces will always work in the direction where the end result will be that a large part of that 3600 BTC gets sold to pay for running costs. And this gets worse if the price rises. If BTC get to $10.000, it becomes $20 or $30 million daily. And the power usage gets to be counted in the number of nuclear power plants needed. So, the only way that the BTC price is sustainable is that the amount that miners get is the same as the value that the bitcoin network as a whole creates. Right now the largest payment processor has $5 million per month volume. No way this comes even close to 0.5$ million per day in "value creation" needed for the price to be sustainable. Do you truly believe that if all Bitcoin users were to go onto MtGox right now and sell all 11 million bitcoins, they would walk away with a combined $2 billion? That is the only way your $.5 million per day thing works. Is that the current ask total these days? $2 billion? I plan on buying an ASIC. To do so I will need to convert dollars to bitcoins. I will purchase my ASIC and run the ASIC to get bitcoins. I will then use those bitcoins as currency or hold them. Any electricity costs I accumulate will be paid with dollars like any other utility bill (until they take bitcoins). What part of that process requires me to cash out my bitcoins? |
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this shit is just ridiculous
its starting to turn into the digital gold rush
a race to the finish, there are only going to be 21 Million bitcoins to ever exist its going to be a worldwide contest/battle to the end where anyone who has BTC will be the winner
GET THEM NOW,
I plan on getting all 21 million. |
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http://blockchain.info/statsHash Rate and Electricity Consumption Difficulty 7,672,999.92 Hash Rate 62,554.01 GH/s Electricity Consumption * 975.84 megawatt hours Electricity Cost $146,376.39
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Just over a week later and we are right around the corner ($181) from having the market cap of a mid-cap company. Definition of 'Mid Cap' A company with a market capitalization between $2 and $10 billion, which is calculated by multiplying the number of a company''''s shares outstanding by its stock price. Mid cap is an abbreviation for the term "middle capitalization". http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/midcapstock.asp |
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Also the usability of bitcoin must be improved for the mass. Non-geeks would not understand how to setup a wallet and so on. So true. This is one of the negatives about BitCoin which really need to get solved somehow. It is called opportunity. BitPay saw that the masses of merchants would not understand the bitcoin client and how to create a new address for each customer, etc. So they created a service to allow a merchant to just throw a button on their website which allows them to "magically" accept Bitcoin that could then be easily transferred to their bank account in dollars. Anything that makes Bitcoin more friendly to Joe Six Pack will make the service provider money. |
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Going so fast...
knowledge of countries coming too quickly...
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So, any other answer attempts on who must pay a large chunk of those $0.5 million daily?
Saying that $.5 million is paid per day follows the same mistake that people who think we actually have over $1.5 billion worth of bitcoins make. The money traded on the exchange is what determines cost. Out of almost 11 million bitcoins in existence, around 75,000 are traded daily or about .6% of all bitcoins determine the price. Trying to say that the 3600 bitcoins created daily is part of that 75000 as opposed to that 10+ million is misleading. Taking the trend of the Bitcoin economy as a whole, only about $3,500 of mined bitcoins need to be sucked up by buyers each day to simply maintain the current price. As for miners needing to pay their own bills. Most people who hold bitcoins need to pay their bills. Most people who hold bitcoins are paid in cash. Bills can easily be paid without going through the extra steps of converting bitcoins to do so. |
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I am moving from hoarding dollars to holding a currency of value.
So, no attempt at answering the question of who is paying $0.5 million per day so that your currency of value can hold value? When Google was paying their CEOs in the early days with stock options, were they bringing in the amount of money per day to pay for those stock options in order to hold value? The inflation created by mining is already priced in. |
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Right now we have a problem. Bitcoin's price is rising so fast, so high that you would be silly to spend any of them on goods and services. Yes, downright stupid.
What currency should we spend on goods and services then? Follow up: Why would anyone be silly enough to have dollars to spend right now? |
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It would only be the people involved buying, not the company itself.
I believe Bitcoin is not yet ready for prime time when it comes to big businesses holding bitcoins.
No current software or services for handling private keys within departments (this year's budget mysteriously disappears from the accounting department). Though we are getting there.
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I give bitcoins to my neices and nephews but I still hold the private keys.
Mainly so that if they ever want to spend it, they can...but if they forget about it or lose their keys I can help them out down the road.
I gave my nephew one bitcoin back when it was worth $45...I wonder if he is keeping track of the price. Not a bad present.
I gave him a single stock of McDonalds about 10 years ago worth $45. That stock is now worth around $98.
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just because a coin is minted doesnt mean it gets sold.
So, miners are speculating as well? Unfortunately, miners costs still have to be paid in currencies other that bitcoin, and market will push the cost of each bitcoin mined to be close to one bitcoin. Right now, the difficulty did not have the time to adjust due to fast price rise and ASIC scams, but that is not a permanent situation. Around 0.3 to 0.5 million dollars of fresh speculative money will be needed each day to keep the price this high. And this is needed even if speculators do not sell at all. When they do start taking profits, this will just add to the outflows. Anyone can "take profits" by buying something with their Bitcoin (a new ASIC miner perhaps?). I take profits every month by spending less on my hosting service (paid in bitcoins) than the previous month. I am moving from hoarding dollars to holding a currency of value. |
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Why dont you count on the 21 million coins that we know we will have most of in just a few years?
We will have 21 million coins in 127 years ^^ We have 90% of 21 million coins within 10 years. With this high inflation until 2023 i prefer to approximate the coins to 21 million, or 19 million if it feels better for you. 19 million coins x 160$ = 3 billion dollars Should we also compare against the amount of currency for these countries in 10 years? |
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I am configuring all equations and handling of my website to deal in mBTC to the user.
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Quickly after Eritrea will be:   |
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So it appears that the impression is that hoarders are hurting Bitcoin because we are not using it as its intended purpose, as a currency.
I imagine that such an idea must be from people new to Bitcoin because we have come a long long way since only being able to use bitcoins as a currency to buy pizza or alpaca socks.
My wife's clothing store was one of BitPay's first merchants, there were 3 of us on their merchant page. Now there are over 50,000 and growing.
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This is so funny and sad at the same time. In recent months BTC has seemingly lost its true utility -- a currency -- and has become a speculative asset that provides no utility because if you use it, you'll potentially be leaving money on the table. Amazing  Everyone start paying with Paypal and Dwolla again  we need more bitcoin merchants though. in time, there will be less hoarding or a combination of both. I hoard for the time being because I see no real way to spend them. But I do believe that in the future I will, so when that day comes that I want a new vehicle, I can walk into the dealership and make my BTC transfer and be done. Until then, i buy and hold Or you can just order a vehicle online if you are not in the Kansas area: http://www.overlandparkjeepdodge.net/index.htmdid i miss something? do they take BTC? if so thats awesome and i live under a rock lol Yep, they take BTC via BitPay. |
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This is so funny and sad at the same time. In recent months BTC has seemingly lost its true utility -- a currency -- and has become a speculative asset that provides no utility because if you use it, you'll potentially be leaving money on the table. Amazing Everyone start paying with Paypal and Dwolla again we need more bitcoin merchants though. in time, there will be less hoarding or a combination of both. I hoard for the time being because I see no real way to spend them. But I do believe that in the future I will, so when that day comes that I want a new vehicle, I can walk into the dealership and make my BTC transfer and be done. Until then, i buy and hold Or you can just order a vehicle online if you are not in the Kansas area: http://www.overlandparkjeepdodge.net/index.htm |
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In some ways, Bitcoin is less anonymous than the dollar.
All of your transactions are right there for the world to see.
And you mention Amazon, PayPal, etc. for the non-anonymity of the dollar.
I see your third party services and return with BitMit, bitcoin-otc, bitcointalk.
You can look at the address in my signature and see exactly where I have received and spent bitcoins. Can you do that with your dollars?
Valid points... My poll question is do you care if someone sees the transaction invloved Elwar? In this poll, I'm just trying to get a sense of what people care about in Bitcoin transactions. If I cared if someone saw my transactions I would just take steps to make them anonymous. At the moment I do not care, just as must as I am willing to put my real name out on the Internet via facebook and other sites. But if I wanted to have a private transaction (bitcoin cams or silk road etc.) I would want the ability to have some anonymity in those transactions and thus maybe buy bitcoins locally or run my coins through an anonymizing service or whichever. Just as I would start creating fake names on the Internet or block access to my identity on various websites as that information starts to get used for darker purposes (ie. government/corporate/criminal tracking). |
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