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I looked into it and it might be something interesting but it's not really what I am looking for. I was hoping for a site that could exchange btc for fiat currency in addition to the instant trades. Thanks though!
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I know there are tons of "real time" trading services but I truly mean real time. Real time in the sense that when I click the buy button the BTC are immediately mine and I am able to sell them immediately after the purchase, even in the next second if I wanted to. Coinbase almost has this type of feature, but it takes a few days for them to verify transactions with your bank account so you can instantly buy in the sense that the order is instant, but they arrive and are sell-able within a few business days. However even when I sell it takes them a few days to send me the money. What I am asking here is if a trading service exits (that doesn't require a minimum balance or anything of that sort) that allows me to deposit money into sort of an online account or use a debit card so that transactions occur immediately and not in a few business days. Thanks a lot for the help!
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The amount of profit you accumulate overall by speculation and mining will be - in case of rising Bitcoin prices - always lower then the possible profit made by pure speculation without any mining. So your maximal profit that you can achieve with a given amount of money will be diminished by mining, leading to the conclusion that mining generates a loss.
To say your miner generated more money including speculation than it's initial cost in Dollar is profit - is flawed. It only works if the Bitcoin prices are rising. And when the Bitcoin prices are rising, the maximum amount of profit you can make is by buying Bitcoins without mining. Again, this value is 100%. Everything less is a loss, because you did not get as much money as you could have gained.
I will answer both quotes at the same time. Yes! That is all I was trying to say, you completely misunderstood me. Of course there will be a loss because you will never fully get back what you paid for the miner, and it would make more sense to just buy bitcoins. Then you will have an extra 35$ to speculate with. The only point I was trying to make was that there is some "profitability" if you account for successful speculation with mined coins, but definitely not as much as just flat out speculation profit. And of course my argument is flawed because I can't predict the future, I am not sure if btc prices will ever rise, but your argument and every other argument is flawed as well because everyone is making their own assumptions. That is why I am ignoring the irrelevant people in this thread and I am just debating with you. We have the same train of thought, you just think it's more profitable to speculate, which I agree with. For the last time I was trying to point out that a profit is possible, no matter how minute. Please admit that so we can spend our time more wisely  |
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By having proven you wrong by all scientific means your argument is rendered invalid. By USB Mining you loose 70% of your money. Gone. Even if you turn your calculations upside down and squint at them.
You haven't once proven me wrong, you just refuse to calculate speculation into the profit equation which doesn't make sense to me. You have admitted countless times that you make money, then you turn around and say you don't make profit. That is the only discussion here but you keep going off topic for some reason. It doesn't matter if the profit is from mining or speculation, because you speculate with your mined coins. I really don't think you know what "all scientific means" are. Science works with evidence. EVIDENCE: Mining-profitability does not! include a rise in Bitcoin prices. Don't mix profits you made by speculations with mining profits.
Yes it does. Nope, still does not. then Of course you can calculate profit from speculation into the equation, any logical businessman would. Profit is profit, even if I get it in the future. You think I am arguing for something that I am not.
Profit is profit, exactly. You can't say one thing, argue the completely different side, and then refuse to understand what I am trying to say one bit. I am not sure who made the rule that you are not allowed to calculate speculation into mining but it is wrong. Any bitcoin miner immediately becomes a speculator the second they help solve a block. You can be safe and immediately sell it, or you can take a risk and speculate. If you speculate on coins that you mined yourself you are making a profit off of mining because you mined the coins that you are speculating with. If I just bought the coins I would be speculating, but because I mined them I am allowed to combine the profit. There is no logical argument against that as far as I am aware. PS: Ok I am sorry but there is no point in arguing with a person who pulls numbers out of no where.
I am not arguing with you, I just try to explain the basics behind the ongoing mining-fraud to you. You make some very common mistakes and I can only hope that you won't loose a lot of money by investing based on wrong assumptions. Have you ever even owned a usbminer? I feel like most of the people on this thread are talking but they have absolutely no evidence to back up their claims. Let me make this very clear: I am not endorsing usbmining I am just saying that they will one day in the very distant future make a profit. I do not and will not ever buy more than one of these purely for the sake of experimentation because they are interesting devices and if the technology was perfected they could one day become a viable source of income. OKAY I will meet up halfway with you because I am a good guy, let's use your side of the argument that mining generates a negative profit. Even if it takes years to do, if the usbminer somehow magically mines .00000000000000001 more btc than it took to buy the thing(not counting speculation, we will assume price never increases but difficulty does) a profit has been achieved, do you agree? And you can't just say "No that will never happen" because you don't know for sure so please don't go there. You will not make as much as just flat out buying the btc, and definitely not as much as a legit rig, but if it one day makes more than it cost to buy you get a profit purely from mining. My arguement is that this is possible. Slow, but possible. You are saying that a usbminer will never reach the initial investment that it cost to buy purely from mining btc and selling them immediately? Correct? Just try to see my point because we aren't being productive anymore we are just going in circles. |
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Is this build setup still viable? Could I perhaps use better gpus to get a faster hash rate?
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You bought an USB Erupter at 35$ and mine Bitcoins that are worth 14$. 14$ in Bitcoins made by mining. If the Bitcoin price rises, these 14$ in Bitcoin may be worth 100$ in the future.
Where Mining is red and speculation is blue.
So by spending 35$ on a Erupter you make a mining loss of 21$. Full Stop. No profit at all. Nada. Nüx.
Ok I am sorry but there is no point in arguing with a person who pulls numbers out of no where. Here is a link to the definition of profitable http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profitable please study it hard and stop trying to prove your point just because you aren't willing to hear anyone else out. You are misunderstanding what I am trying to say. It is profitable and if you say it isn't you are absolutely wrong. However usbmining definitely isn't as profitable as just buying the bitcoins and waiting for the price to go up. And it definitely isn't as profitable as buying a better rig. I agree with that. However I disagree with your complete mutilation of the word "profitable". Mining-profitability does not! include a rise in Bitcoin prices. Don't mix profits you made by speculations with mining profits.
Yes it does. Let's use your brilliant gold example. If what you are saying is true then no gold mining company is "profitable" because they should just buy the gold from someone else and hold it until prices increase. Then no one would mine gold... That just doesn't make sense, someone has to do it. And as less gold becomes available I am allowed to speculate all I want. So if I save the gold I mined now and sell it later for double its worth I make money. Thus a profit is earned. Of course you can calculate profit from speculation into the equation, any logical businessman would. Profit is profit, even if I get it in the future. You think I am arguing for something that I am not. |
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But clearly your point was: Hey, 35$, who needs such peanuts, just throw it away in a most delightful way.
For the sake of usbminers everywhere I will throw away my peanuts in order to bring some actual evidence to the table. I just ordered a usb asicminer for 34.95 from ebay, and I will begin mining asap. Speculation is great but everyone is forgetting to add in the luck factor. We will see how it goes. |
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Tobias, you really don't get it, hm? You are talking about "how to debate a subject", but the point is "how to do simple math". And you failed.
Scenario A: (your way)
You bought a Block Erupter for 35$
You mined 0.1 Bitcoins with it before the power consumption costs more than your mining reward.
Bitcoin price rises from 140$ to 1000$ per Bitcoin.
You sell your 0.1 Bitcoins for 100$ and say "Hey, I made 65$, I was right, I told everybody that those Block Erupters make Money!"
Scenario B: (the one you need braincells for)
You bought Bitcoins for 35$.
You got 0.25 Bitcoins at the Price of 140$ each Bitcoin.
Bitcoin price rises from 140$ to 1000$ per Bitcoin
You sell your 0.25 Bitcoins for 250$ and say "Hey, I made 215$, I was right, I told everybody that those Block Erupters suck!"
The difference is: B gives you 150$, but only if you have braincells.
But clearly your point was: Hey, 35$, who needs such peanuts, just throw it away in a most delightful way.
Maybe if I had brain cells I would be able to do the math in my head but for now I used a calculator and discovered that "65$" and "215$" are both more than 35$  thus agreeing with the dictionary definition of the word profitable. I am not telling people to buy 1000 usb miners and mine with them I am just arguing that you will one day in the future probably make back your 35$ with a usb miner. However I would NEVER condone basing your entire operation off usb miners and yes you would get more money if you bought 35$ in btc and just held it for the same amount of time. The post was asking if they are profitable not if they are the MOST profitable. But hey, I am just a guy without brain cells... |
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WOW at the above post. A dozen posts before you explaining it and it is still over your head. I like that BTC is a zero sum game so the more people like that the better for the rest who understand it. Your loses are my gains and there's nobody to print more or steal more to bail you out of your dumb decisions. Also the deflationary aspect of bitcoin makes it all seem correct so you'll keep on pouring more value into the system incorrectly. I'm all for it.
Ok so what is your plan all knowing bitcoin fortune teller? There is no need to be hostile just because you don't know how to correctly debate a subject *waits for another unnecessarily rude post* |
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Currently you can get around $.25 a day mining 24/7 with a usb asicminer (underestimate) depending on your luck.Therefore at the current difficulty it would take around 140 days to remake the initial investment and even if the difficulty increased a few times bitcoin price would increase (in theory) to respond to increased difficulty, so you would mine less coins for more money. The beauty of usb miners is that the investment is so low that it allows newer miners to join the game without a huge risk, which helps to legitimize the bitcoin as a globally accepted currency making it a safer investment for everyone. And once you pay back your $35 everything else is profit. You can even save all the bitcoins you mine now and sell them in a year or two for a huge profit if the market doesn't crash because you can live without $35 |
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What if I am in a dorm room where I don't have to pay for electricity for the next 9 months......? Then you can enjoy your pennies from heaven. Lol. I am now taking offers to host mining rigs in my dorm so you don't have to pay for electricity... You can visit weekly  |
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What if I am in a dorm room where I don't have to pay for electricity for the next 9 months......? |
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Half of you are missing the point.  I bought a bunch of these while waiting for more mining power. Now that I have it, it's not economical for me to run a whole separate mining PC just to host these.  I don't care to sell them off for a fraction of what I paid. It would be worth more to me, and the whole Bitcoin community, for people like me to give each of them to people we know WHO AREN'T ALREADY HERE. When we grow the community, we grow adoption. Then demand increases. I hope you know what comes next!  For a non-miner who already leaves their PC on 24 hours a day, they can just plug it in and have some real BTC to play with, even if it's just pocket change, at no additional cost.  So it's a win-win! They get a new small but meaningful income stream, and I get increased chances of a continued rise in market price (not to mention the social benefits of such awesome gifting). This holiday season everyone I know is going to become a new miner if they aren't already. I agree, you would probably make more profit by giving them away and starting a chain reaction of new bitcoin miners (which would eventually raise the price of your bitcoins) instead of selling them... By the way I have never mined before so you should send me a few hundred for free |
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This is the method: Post this at a Bitcoin forum of your choice. It gets saturated fast as there are only so much noobs that will fall for it. Torched |
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Yea use bit777.com its way more legit than every other gambling website... |
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Hello Bitcoin lovers, I am looking into buying a legit rig but I am extremely skeptical about all these promises about speed, delivery, and stuff like that. Some people seem to be extremely happy with their rigs while others claim that rig manufacturers are scammers. I would really appreciate some suggestions and personal testimonials so that way I can do a lot more research and hopefully purchase a rig that isn't a scam... then make money in my sleep. Thanks |
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For the rather obvious reason that mining isn't a sure way to make money (bitcoin price may crash, difficulty could increase dramatically, other unforeseen events may happen), while selling miners is a sure thing. In a gold rush, it's not the miners who get rich, but the guys selling shovels.
That's what I always say, and I am trying to think of a new "shovel" to sell, but the amount of money they would make is ridiculous and they could have earned back their investment tenfold by now |
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I am new to bitcoin mining hence the newbie forum, but I was just wondering if a company like butterfly labs could make a 600 gh/s piece of equipment for under 5000$ why wouldn't they just mine with it themselves and make countless times more money than they would by selling them? It seems really fishy to me.
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