 Show Posts
|
|
Pages: [1]
|
And if climate change is true, and Greece becomes much hotter, what do you think happens to the agricultural base of Greece? Again, economic crisis is the near term problem. If people in Greece can't grow enough food for their populations due to the heat, the increases in viable farmlands in Siberia and Canada's Northern Territories would more than compensate, but if the Greeks can't afford to trade internationally, they starve.
A valid point,but most of our agricultural products get traded to other EU countries,and for instance we end up buying olive oil from other countries anyway. That is of course the way the market works.But you'd be hard-pressed to find someone that actually buys olive oil from the store,and not from some "family member" in the village. So if we end up being unable to trade food,we will turn to our "families" to get some of the food they have stored away. And maybe get to teach a 75 year old woman how to use bitcoins in the process. My point was, that if the climate change crazies are right about their worst case predictions, then Greece will have a much hotter & dryer climate, and thus the ag base will not be able to grow as much, limiting the local population in a future with limited international trade. Your local connections are great, but it's actually impossible for all Greeks to be able to find local food sources in an economic crisis. I'm pretty sure that it would be easier to get local food sources in a time of crisis...I'm not saying it would be affordable,but if a crisis occurred and people were starving,then the ones with even a limited food supply would be the ones in power.They would,in theory,exploit your hunger to get rich.And it has actually happened before.People giving up their properties for a decent meal. As for the climate,I'm pretty sure,that unless we get over 50C in the summer and below -10C in the winter we'll be alright. If I remember correctly olive trees are pretty resiliant to weather. |
|
|
|
what worries me is environmental refugees. take the greeks - they are a perfect storm: the worst economy in the EU at the moment, but they are also about to deal with the worst oncoming global warming issues. it's a nasty combination - and they're not too likely to discuss it over tea...
You're right..We only drink frappe...
ummm... no.
it's the heat, in greece. not the ocean-level rise.
look into it.
I don't know where you get your facts from,but I can tell you that this summer has not been any hotter than the previous one,or the one before that.
And if climate change is true, and Greece becomes much hotter, what do you think happens to the agricultural base of Greece? Again, economic crisis is the near term problem. If people in Greece can't grow enough food for their populations due to the heat, the increases in viable farmlands in Siberia and Canada's Northern Territories would more than compensate, but if the Greeks can't afford to trade internationally, they starve.
A valid point,but most of our agricultural products get traded to other EU countries,and for instance we end up buying olive oil from other countries anyway. That is of course the way the market works.But you'd be hard-pressed to find someone that actually buys olive oil from the store,and not from some "family member" in the village. So if we end up being unable to trade food,we will turn to our "families" to get some of the food they have stored away. And maybe get to teach a 75 year old woman how to use bitcoins in the process. I use quotation marks on family because it's usually someone not directly related to your family,not in the strict sense. This will be very good for bitcoin. Maybe not so much for freedom
Yea if there is anyone in greece. Go out protesting and walk around with some sort of sign that refers to bitcoin. Could get lots of exposure if it is picked up by a broadcast by a main stream media outlet. I'll do it if you pay me a bitcoin!Seriously though,if I were to go around preaching the virtues of bitcoin these are the most probable outcomes: 1)I get laughed at and thought of as a starving lunatic,saying that the internet is going to help us get out of this crisis... 2)I get a media outlet to interview me,and then they present me as a lunatic,by editing everything I said to become incoherent and accompany it by laugh tracks and stupid one-liners... 3)Maybe I get a few people to look into bitcoin,but most of them would get put off by the technical side and quit...Or worse.. 4)They actually think they will get rich,so they buy a 600E pre-built computer install the client and after a day or two,when they haven't generated a single coin,I get to be the asshole that made them spent their money on something they didn't understand. |
|
|
|
This is proven with a mathematical linear regression, which is used by market experts to forecast future values. This regression clearly shows a trend towards 0, and could possibly even hit negative value. Sell everything.
I don't get it, why did you take your time to make this post? where you thinking 'people really need to see this important information i discovered.' This. Based on my data analysis, Bitcoins are projected to hit 0 and even lower values within a few days. Mining Bitcoins will make you lose more money than just electricity once it hits negative values. GPUs aren't meant to calculate hashes in reverse, so it could cause catastrophic short-circuits and possibly explosions in the homes of people who have dozens of mining setups. Last time my computer went into a catastrophic short-circuit Kelly LeBrock walked out of the room,so maybe bitcoins reaching sub-zero prices is not such a bad thing after all? |
|
|
|
|
Transaction just appeared on my client...It's still at 0/unconfirmed but it's here...
Thank you...
|
|
|
|
|
I think i qualify as a newbie,and I'd like to get my hands on some bitcoins,cause I've already spent my 2 cents from the faucet..
My adress is 1GSmuiM3Bk5Y1j9F6grnmZDXjTojngjDam
Thank you...
|
|
|
|
|
I was thinking that as well the other day,and I think it's a great idea.But I do think that the animated "What is bitcoin" video has already done that to a certain point.
Because unless you want to explain how mining works, what a block is,how it's calculated etc. then you'll end up doing a rehash of the aforementioned video.
And if you decide to explain the technical details of the network,you need to find a way to make it accessible to everyone who doesn't know what cryptography is.
If you decide to do it however I wish you the best of luck,and I'm offering my help.
I have a lot of experience in editing and directing,so anything you need feel free to ask.
|
|
|
|
So, wait a minute. I thought Paypal was blocking Bitcoin purchases? It looks like there are Linden Dollars regularly for sale on E-Bay as well. Why aren't more people selling Bitcoins on E-Bay?
I think the main reason is the price...If you put up an auction,you don't know what the final price will be,and it might end up being less than the exchange rate... If you put up a buy it now option,at the current exchange rate,the rate might go up and you'll end up selling your coin for less..If the price goes down,no one will want to buy from you.. Furthermore,those bitcoins have to come from somewhere..unless the seller is mining to get his bitcoins he will need to get them from MtGox or similar.And to do that he needs to pay fees which he will then have to pass on to the buyer on ebay...Thus making them cost more...And finally he might only have a certain amount of bitcoins that he might want to sell over a large period of time,to keep an eye on the rate... That been said,I would love to see more bitcoins on ebay... |
|
|
|
Interesting...Not sure if I would bid...The price seems to be roughly the same as MtGox but the seller doesn't fill me with confidence.. 1)His feedback is only 7,which is understandable if he just created an account to sell bitcoins but 2)He offers no form of protection against scamming..I don't really know what that might be,but I suppose it wouldn't be hard to think of something to put the buyer at ease. 3)He requires some form of protection for himself in the sense that he asks me to hand out personal information if I have less that 10 feedback 4)He only ships to people in the US.I guess it's so he can actually call the person that won the bid,but he could call anyone anywhere in the world if he wanted using a VOIP service...Most have free destinations so he wouldn't even be charged,but even if he was,it would only be a short conversation... 5)By only shipping a digital good at a certain geographical area,he has limited his buyers for no reason...I'm pretty sure that someone who lives in the US can get bitcoins easier than me,and wouldn't be looking at ebay for them... I'll keep an eye out on ebay for more of his bids,but I'm a bit skeptical about it.. EDIT:wouldn't it make more sense to have a fixed price per BTC and have the buyer select the amount he wants? |
|
|
|
People are selling some bitcoins on ebay now. I don't know if ebay is going to allow this to continue long term, but if it does, that could become an easy place to buy and sell bitcoins.
Can you give me a link?I want to get my hands on some bitcoins,and since I already have an account on ebay it might be easier than mt.gox and the rest.. I cannot however find anything...Searching for "bitcoin" only gave me one result and that was to buy a discount code for 0.15BTC when purchasing at a site,searching for "BTC" will result in all sort of unrelated results like jewelery and empty DVD's,and "bit coin" will only yield results about physical coins... Maybe ebay stopped the selling of bitcoins?It wouldn't seem far-fetched after Paypal... the auction ended 23 minutes before your post... Lool..Still could you give me the link to the auction?It should still work,and I just want to see the details of the transaction(How much the auction ended,how many bitcoin were on sale,how was the ebay seller making the buyer feel safe from scamming etc.) |
|
|
|
People are selling some bitcoins on ebay now. I don't know if ebay is going to allow this to continue long term, but if it does, that could become an easy place to buy and sell bitcoins.
Can you give me a link?I want to get my hands on some bitcoins,and since I already have an account on ebay it might be easier than mt.gox and the rest.. I cannot however find anything...Searching for "bitcoin" only gave me one result and that was to buy a discount code for 0.15BTC when purchasing at a site,searching for "BTC" will result in all sort of unrelated results like jewelery and empty DVD's,and "bit coin" will only yield results about physical coins... Maybe ebay stopped the selling of bitcoins?It wouldn't seem far-fetched after Paypal... |
|
|
|
so here is the way i figure it. Since you were already planning to get build a new computer in the first place adding a couple hundred dollars worth of graphics cards is not going to add the price of the system too much. Also if you were planning on playing games with this computer because the more gpu power you put into this computer the better the games with play, and the more btc you will mine. Also from personal experience i bought a second 5870 for my pc to play games, and mine, and it has paid its self off already. So i would say build you computer and throw a couple of high end gpus into.
That was my thought as well... The biggest problem here would be that I could afford to get a good machine to work on and pay in cash since I will be coming into some money this week,but adding the extra cost of say 3 more GPU's,would make it impossible to buy in cash,and I would have to resort to installments. That was the reason I wanted to see if getting into bitcoin was worth the extra purchases now.Otherwise I could hold off on the 2nd GPU for a little while till I have the extra cash. Also,I don't really game that much anyway,and when I do,I tend to play older games that I might have missed when they first came out. |
|
|
|
As I said before I wanted to get a new computer anyway,and although I wasn't planning on getting one with 4 GPUS,I was thinking about it,to make it a repsectable mining rig for a few months...
If the only important part is the GPU does that mean I can get away with using my old P4,by simply getting a new GPU?I've seen someone using a P4 at the "Post a picture of your rig" thread but I'm not sure if it is sufficient..
That P4 is going to be a huge bottleneck relative to your GPUs. However, a very nice, modern motherboard and CPU can be had for $200-300 if you want to come fully into this decade =) LOOL...yeah well,that's why I asked about my P4...I'm a packrat and I've held onto my P4,but haven't used it in over 3 or 4 years,since I haven't bother replacing it's PSU... The reason I'm stuck in the 00's desktop scene,is I've switched to laptops since I tend to do freelance work as an editor,and I need to be able to carry my work with me,and do on-the-fly changes. One job in particular was about 300 km away from home,and I drove there.I was able to capture the footage the night it was shot,and preview it to make sure we had everything we needed.And also show the client some rushes. Hence the need to get a new desktop as well...Although it's great to be able to carry a laptop around and always be ready to work,it doesn't always lend itself to working at home... And rendering high-def video is demanding... P.S. I also have an old P3 at 1GHZ and a P2 at 300MHZ stashed away...Still trying to find out what to do with them,besides recycling... P.S. 2 About 10 days ago,I set up a brand new i5 desktop for my sister,and I wish I had known about bitcoins then...I went with an nVidia GPU because it was at a great discount,and then I read that nVidia performs slower than ATI in mining...Not that I could persuade my sister to mine with her new rig,but it would have been nice anyway.. |
|
|
|
Let's see if I can reply to all of your posts... I'm hardly an early adopter, joining up 9 whole days ago. What made me sarcastic and condescending (not to mention bitter) was answering this exact same question about 30 times. If we assume the difficulty will grow by 30% every 2 weeks (both of these estimates are very conservative, by the way), 700 Mhash/sec worth of hashing power will probably find about 1.95 blocks between now and the end of time.
You'll have to plug in what you think a bitcoin will be worth to find out if this is a good idea or not.
You'll need to scale that to the GPU you are planning to buy. If, for example, you get a 5850, you can expect about 300 Mhash/sec out of it, so it would earn about 1.95 * (300/700) = 0.835 * 50 = 41 BTC. Even that estimate is probably very high. See that is what I was looking for...Some data on what Mhash/s I could get out of various cards...And I couldn't find any place,with a list of cards and their respective perfomance... I'd say to anyone not to bother going into mining unless you already have the equipment or can get it extremely cheaply, as in pretty close to free.
It will take a good while to recoup any money invested in a rig, unless the BTC price increases a hell of a lot compared to the increases in difficulty to mine the BTC.
The thing is you cannot tell for sure what will happen with the BTC price or the difficulty level.
Basically at this moment BTC price looks very healthy, but future difficulty levels looks bloody awful for mining.
GPU is the important bit as far as gear is concerned... especially the Radeon HD 5850... this seems to be the best
The rest of the gear, keep it cheap, and keep it cool, and make sure you have the power
Mining s/w ... phoenix is the bong
I don't really mind recouping my expenses for hardware anytime soon,if ever...It would be great if I could do it,but what I would want is to be able to pay for my electric bill,and possibly get 1 or 2 bitcoins spare to keep... As I said before I wanted to get a new computer anyway,and although I wasn't planning on getting one with 4 GPUS,I was thinking about it,to make it a repsectable mining rig for a few months... If the only important part is the GPU does that mean I can get away with using my old P4,by simply getting a new GPU?I've seen someone using a P4 at the "Post a picture of your rig" thread but I'm not sure if it is sufficient.. Well, you can think of bitcoin like about share of stock - cos their numbers is limited, if you believe in the future rise of bitcoin - you can mine even if current difficulty/price dont seems so good. And if you did not believe - you should not.
I can understand your logic,but I cannot do that,because I will not be able to pay my increased electric bill if I don't sell some or all of the bitcoins I make,and hold on to them in hopes of selling them after a year or so at a better rate. |
|
|
|
Yup. Go for it. You've managed to ignore all of the dozens of other threads asking this same question, plus all of the wiki pages, guides, calculators, spreadsheets and other utilities that could help you make a ration decision. Based on this, and because I'm sick of doing simple math for people, I feel that you have the true believer spirit that is necessary to be a successful miner.
I did not ignore the other threads,and have actually read the entire wiki... The reason I posted,was to get feedback on what my rig should be,if I decided to build it,and to get an estimate of the mhash/s I would be able to get with various cards...Since I can't find an accurate measurement,and there seem to be a lot of mining programs available that might be optimised for certain types of cards... And if you re-read my post,you'll see that I didn't ask anyone to do any math for me,I simply posted what my reality was... Or would you prefer I didn't write what my power consumption was,so that when you reply,you can say you can't answer because you don't know how much my ellectric bill would be... I guess the 3 page thread on how much a kWh costs around the world is simply for fun... But I suppose being sarcastic,and condescending is part of being an early adopter...Cheers... its late to invest ,imo.
Because the BTC exchange rate is fixed and will never change, so he'll never recoup any money he invests in hardware today  Exactly my thoughts...Although I can't imagine how much higher the rate might go... But if I can recoup my expenses in electric and hardware,I would be more than happy..I realize that I'm too late to make a fortune of bitcoins,but having a computer on 24/7 that can pay for itself and then after 6 months,or whenever I'm forced out of the race,I'll still have a relatively new computer I can use. If I wanted to get rich,and was mad enough,I'd get a 10.000E loan and invest in a farm...But that is not my goal,and is not within my possibilities now... |
|
|
|
|
Hello everyone...
I found out about bitcoins about a week ago,and have been thinking of setting up a mining rig...
I was just wondering whether or not it is affordable to do so,at this point,or if I should just buy bitcoins instead....
The reason I was thinking of getting into mining is that I wanted to buy a new desktop computer anyway,and I figured that I would be happy if it would be able to at least pay for itself....
What I want to know is how many blocks I should expect to get every month,and whether those blocks would be enough to pay for my electric bill or not...
The current exchange rate for Euros is at about 6.5 per coin so that means 325E.
And the prices per kWh are the following
0 – 800 kWh 0,05400
801 – 1000 kWh 0,06860
1001 – 1200 kWh 0,07100
1201 – 1600 kWh 0,07270
1601 – 2000 kWh 0,07270
> 2000 kWh 0,08174
Assuming that I don't use up more than 1200 kWh per month my bill would be about 70E plus taxes and the like....So let's round it up to 100 Euros...
Also,how fast does the difficulty rise,and how long should I expect to last,until I spend more than what I'm making?
Thank you for your help,and hope I can become a bitcoin miner myself...
|
|
|
|
|
