HOLY TOLEDO guys! Ken actually already refunded my order in BTC. I can't believe it. Are you sure bitcoin transactions aren't reversible?  I will need at least one week to recover from this totally unexpected event. Finally I can close this chapter full of horror. Nice, now let's see how many he actually does. Not that I'm pessimistic, but when I ordered from him he sent the prospector board next day air in like two days. Then I come on the board and see people waiting a week or two and get it shipped ground. Hopefully he can continue this trend and get refunds out to everyone in similar fashion. 100% of per-orders will be refunded if they chose BTC. Edit: 100% of pre-orders will be refunded. USD may take longer. |
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Virtual Mining Corpoation Bitcoin Pre-Order Refund Agreement I hereby agree for my pre-order equipment ordered from Virtual Mining Corporation paid is USD or bitcoins to be refunded to the bitcoin address below converted at the current coinbase.com buy price at the time the refund is issued. I agree that this will be a full repayment of Virtual Minings obgation to you. Name: Address: City: State: Country: Order ID: Order Date: Total amount of order is USD: Bitcoin Refund Address I hereby agree the above terms: _________________________________ Signed _________________________________ Print Name Sign and scan the above agreement and email to btcrefunds@virtualminingcorp.com So, correct me if I'm misunderstanding this, but the refund agreement says that the customer agrees to be refunded in BTC at no specific date using the coinbase.com rate on that particular date, and they furthermore agree that repayment covers all obligation that VMC has to the customer. So let's say that between now and when the refund is paid, the customer enters into legal action against VMC. All VMC has to do is pay the refund for that customer, and doing so would activate the agreement and stop the legal action. In other words, this isn't a refund request, it's a settlement agreement that doesn't even require VMC to pay anything up front. It can easily be triggered by VMC if you ever sue them, and it still lets them wait literally forever to pay you back. So the form gives VMC power that the customer shouldn't agree to. We have already started sending out the first payment. We intend to pay refunds as soon as we receive the form and can process the request. |
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Virtual Mining Corporation Bitcoin Pre-Order Refund Agreement I hereby agree for my pre-order equipment ordered from Virtual Mining Corporation paid is USD or bitcoins to be refunded to the bitcoin address below converted at the current coinbase.com buy price at the time the refund is issued. I agree that this will be a full repayment of Virtual Minings obgation to you. Refund will be processed within 7 business days. Name: Address: City: State: Country: Order ID: Order Date: Total amount of order in USD: Bitcoin Refund Address: I hereby agree the above terms: _________________________________ Signed _________________________________ Print Name _________________________________ Date Sign and scan the above agreement and email to btcrefunds@virtualminingcorp.com |
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Virtual Mining Corporation Bitcoin Pre-Order Refund Agreement I hereby agree for my pre-order equipment ordered from Virtual Mining Corporation paid is USD or bitcoins to be refunded to the bitcoin address below converted at the current coinbase.com buy price at the time the refund is issued. I agree that this will be a full repayment of Virtual Minings obgation to you. Refund will be processed within 7 business days. Name: Address: City: State: Country: Order ID: Order Date: Total amount of order in USD: Bitcoin Refund Address: I hereby agree the above terms: _________________________________ Signed _________________________________ Print Name _________________________________ Date Sign and scan the above agreement and email to btcrefunds@virtualminingcorp.com |
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Virtual Mining Corporation Bitcoin Pre-Order Refund Agreement I hereby agree for my pre-order equipment ordered from Virtual Mining Corporation paid is USD or bitcoins to be refunded to the bitcoin address below converted at the current coinbase.com buy price at the time the refund is issued. I agree that this will be a full repayment of Virtual Minings obgation to you. Refund will be processed within 7 business days. Name: Address: City: State: Country: Order ID: Order Date: Total amount of order in USD: Bitcoin Refund Address: I hereby agree the above terms: _________________________________ Signed _________________________________ Print Name _________________________________ Date Sign and scan the above agreement and email to btcrefunds@virtualminingcorp.com |
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ANNOUNCEMENT:
We will soon start refunding all of our Pre-Order customers that have requested a refund and have not received their refund. We will be refunding the pre-order amount converted to BTC @ the coinbase current sell price. Our pre-order customer will have to agree to being refunded in BTC. We will post in about 1 week an agreement to be refunded in BTC. Should a pre-order customer wish to receive their refund in USD we will also do those refunds after the BTC refunds.
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Ken,
-Will the company continue?
-Why is the company in a good position?
Yes, this is just a bump in the road. |
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We will post a refund offer after it is approved by the MSD. |
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While I agree with you in the business world, in the eyes of the state that isn't how it works. They need to follow their own statutes. Really now that btc is defi ed as property actm shares are a deriviative of that property yet still property, but all that is irrlelvant . The state only cares about the exchange of value as denominated in legal tender. They don't distinct between btc and actm shares. Trust me I know how they think.....I work for them. It is a special way of thinking.....logical....yes,...but in an infantile sort of way. But these laws are written by simpletons. This is a classic example of what people talk abiut when they say "by the time the govt figures it out and regulates it, their laws won't apply since the speed of the technology moves so fast" remember the state just needs to be legally sufficient as interpreted by their laws.....no more no less.
Thank you for your insightfulness, I'm sure with your connections you would be able to provide me direct access with talking to someone who has authority and not a "trust me I know how they think" buckle on their belt. They will be publishing the final order and you can read for yourself. |
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You are wrong, the language states the original purchase price. It is what you paid in USD to acquire the shares, it is what your cost basis is in the shares plus 8%, that is what the Missouri law states and that is what the MSD is going to make us do.
Actually I'm correct, what do you think the original purchase price was when you IPO'd at 0.0025BTC and traded shares for a 1:1 Ratio? The original purchase was was 0.0025BTC as soon as you took our AMC shares. This is how business works. Instead of taking USD or BTC, you took shares that you valued at 0.0025 BTC Each. This is exactly how they will see it, there's no funny games here. I have records showing the transaction of AMC Shares for ActiveMining Shares (At ActiveMining's Original IPO) that were valued at 0.0025 BTC on July 8th 2013. Why let filthy fiat get between two of Bitcoin's greatest visionaries? The MSD. |
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You are wrong, the language states the original purchase price. It is what you paid in USD to acquire the shares, it is what your cost basis is in the shares plus 8%, that is what the Missouri law states and that is what the MSD is going to make us do.
Actually I'm correct, what do you think the original purchase price was when you IPO'd at 0.0025BTC and traded shares for a 1:1 Ratio? The original purchase was was 0.0025BTC as soon as you took our AMC shares. This is how business works. Instead of taking USD or BTC, you took shares that you valued at 0.0025 BTC Each. This is exactly how they will see it, there's no funny games here. I have records showing the transaction of AMC Shares for ActiveMining Shares (At ActiveMining's Original IPO) that were valued at 0.0025 BTC on July 8th 2013. You traded one security for another, your basis in the first security is what counts. You did not purchase the second security you did an exchange. |
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OK Ken so you will need to find 10,000,000 x $0.25 which is 2.5Mill USD. A bit less that I thought before - will this bankrupt the company?
No, we did not sell 10,000,000 shares @ $.025, sorry. |
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Ken had two separate IPOs, one @.0005 and one @.0025. The people who bought his second IPO are getting 20 cents on the dollar. Either MSD is not aware of this, or Ken is lying again I'd imagine both ipo s would be the same as the first ipo had a much lower BTC/USD price. Remember you guys need to look at this from the establishment's view. Business views arn't the state's. The state just needs to be legaly sufficient!! If investors purchased shares (not tendered shares from the first IPO) in the second IPO, they will be getting ~$.25 per share, provided they purchased them direct from Active Mining. It doesn't matter where the shares were purchased from, As soon as you tendered them to a whole new "IPO" the "IPO" that they are currently "making you refund' that is named "ActiveMining". You owe investors (Anyone with shares regardless of where they came from) 0.0025 BTC Per share. Whatever BTC Price was when you opened up the new IPO (July 8th by my records https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2685508#msg2685508) is the USD you have to pay + "8% Interest") http://www.coindesk.com/price/On July 8th, BTC was at $74.56 by CoinDesks Historical Price so each share would be worth $0.1864 So to put this in perspective, every 10,000 Shares of ActiveMining would get a refund of $1,864 or $2,500 at Ken's ~$0.25. The MSD says the investors original purchase price, so the second IPO if you tendered shares from the first IPO you will receive the first IPO price of .0005 BTC if you want a refund. There's no first or second IPO Ken. AMC wasn't told to repay investors, ActiveMining was. When we Tendered them over that was our "purchase" of ActiveMining at a 1:1 ratio. We purchased ActiveMining with our AMC Shares at ActiveMining's IPO Price. There's no way around this logically and the MSD would agree wholeheartedly. You are wrong, the language states the original purchase price. It is what you paid in USD to acquire the shares, it is what your cost basis is in the shares plus 8%, that is what the Missouri law states and that is what the MSD is going to make us do. |
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Pretty sure I bought most of mine at 0.0025, but is there any way of getting BTCT data now?
No, all you can see is the ammount you tendered to BF in your BF log. You can't login to btc-tc anymore. Ken how do we prove what we paid for them on BTC-TC? The investor will have to prove what they paid with documents. Some of the details with MSD have to be ironed out. |
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Ken had two separate IPOs, one @.0005 and one @.0025. The people who bought his second IPO are getting 20 cents on the dollar. Either MSD is not aware of this, or Ken is lying again I'd imagine both ipo s would be the same as the first ipo had a much lower BTC/USD price. Remember you guys need to look at this from the establishment's view. Business views arn't the state's. The state just needs to be legaly sufficient!! If investors purchased shares (not tendered shares from the first IPO) in the second IPO, they will be getting ~$.25 per share, provided they purchased them direct from Active Mining. It doesn't matter where the shares were purchased from, As soon as you tendered them to a whole new "IPO" the "IPO" that they are currently "making you refund' that is named "ActiveMining". You owe investors (Anyone with shares regardless of where they came from) 0.0025 BTC Per share. Whatever BTC Price was when you opened up the new IPO (July 8th by my records https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2685508#msg2685508) is the USD you have to pay + "8% Interest") http://www.coindesk.com/price/On July 8th, BTC was at $74.56 by CoinDesks Historical Price so each share would be worth $0.1864 So to put this in perspective, every 10,000 Shares of ActiveMining would get a refund of $1,864 or $2,500 at Ken's ~$0.25. The MSD says the investors original purchase price, so the second IPO if you tendered shares from the first IPO you will receive the first IPO price of .0005 BTC if you want a refund. |
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Ken had two separate IPOs, one @.0005 and one @.0025. The people who bought his second IPO are getting 20 cents on the dollar. Either MSD is not aware of this, or Ken is lying again I'd imagine both ipo s would be the same as the first ipo had a much lower BTC/USD price. Remember you guys need to look at this from the establishment's view. Business views arn't the state's. The state just needs to be legaly sufficient!! If investors purchased shares (not tendered shares from the first IPO) in the second IPO, they will be getting ~$.25 per share, provided they purchased them direct from Active Mining. |
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Ken, 5 cents a share is totally unacceptable. Unless this offer is made in bitcoin not USD, I will be calling whomever it is in the Missouri Securities Division and I will be asking that they take a firmer response to this. The only way I would not take such action would be if you finally got honest in regard to all the financials and if you began to take good advice from those members of our crew here who actually understand engineering. I have been an early and loyal supporter of your project and deserve better treatment. Lorenzo Money Ken,
At this time, I would be willing to sell the shares I bought from you for .0005 bitcoin each.
I bought just 1000 additional shares on Crypto-Trade recently, but let's just talk about the shares I bought in the original IPO.
Please explain how we shall do this.
The easiest way would be for you to just let me transfer the shares and then you multiply that amount by .0005 and send the bitcoin to an address I will provide.
How long do you think this process will take?
Lorenzo Money
This is what they came up with, it is what the law in Missouri states, you get your money back plus 8%/year interest. So, if you don't want their deal keep your shares, your choice. |
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Ken, At this time, I would be willing to sell the shares I bought from you for .0005 bitcoin each. I bought just 1000 additional shares on Crypto-Trade recently, but let's just talk about the shares I bought in the original IPO. Please explain how we shall do this. The easiest way would be for you to just let me transfer the shares and then you multiply that amount by .0005 and send the bitcoin to an address I will provide. How long do you think this process will take? Lorenzo Money He needs about 20Mill usd to reimburse everyone. In 45 days that could be higher. Maybe he's making it up as he goes along again? This seemed to come from a phone call interview and he didn't even know about this secretary of state ruling so he was put on the spot and under pressure so maybe he got it wrong?
Not if he reimburses in fiat and not bitcoin.  Hash Fast tried that but it was ruled illegal? Just worked it out just incase. He will need 3.1 Million USD to reimburse 10 Mill shares at 0.0025 with BTC price at $125 which it was when most people bought in? But again people who bought in at 0.005 when btc was $600 would push the total up to 6Mill USD? Ken raised about $1,000,000 from the sale of all shares. No he raised X BTC, nobody here wants the useless USD. 10 Million shares where not sold at .0025 BTC, the tenders shares will be valued at their original purchase price of .0005 BTC @ ~$100 USD. The shareholder will have to prove that they purchased the shares from Active Mining not from someone else. All sharesholders wanting a refund will need to provide their ID information to the Missouri Securities Division. The shareholders will have to transfer the shares back to Active Mining. A long time, 15 days for our offer to get approved, if it is ok on the first revision, then 45 days for the offer, then 120 days for the payment. I have not seen the final order yet, this is based on what I have last seen. You will be getting ~$.05 X number of shares purchased plus 8% interest from the time of your purchase on the original IPO. |
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OK so then if he raised on average 0.0017 x 10,000,000 then he needs 11mill USD to buy that 17,000 BTC back today.
It will be refunded at the original investors investment plus 8% interest in USD. To be clear, how much, in dollars, are you reimbursing per share? (as in "1 share will be exchanged for X USD") To be clear, it is the amount you paid for the shares in USD at the time of original purchase plus 8% interest. |
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You need about 17,000 btc to do that Ken do you have that much?
He will have to either sell BTC (which will be well above $1K at that point, considering the amount of time it takes BTC to move vs. the legal system and the amount of time the company has to pay the fine) or use fiat from some magical deal we may have whipped up. Either way, getting paid back in fiat is shafting investors...especially considering many of us used $100 BTC at the time of IPO. When BTC goes for another quantum leap we'll be left with orders of magnitude less in BTC value. Ken, please inform us of your plans to satisfy those who may want to remain shareholders. I'm sure we all want Bitcoin in our wallets, not USDYou don't have to take the offer and you can keep your shares in the company. |
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