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1  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / How the Banks Will Take Over BTC on: February 08, 2018, 11:29:49 AM
I've seen various comments on here suggesting that any fall in the value of BTC is the result of some conspiracy by the banks to make the price fall so that they can buy up all the BTC cheaply, and then get all the profits themselves.  The fact that anyone believes that betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how Bitcoin works, and of the realities of the world.

So let's follow that scenario through.  Somehow, by manipulating the news the banks manage to precipitate a massive sell off where the price crashes to almost zero.  To do that, you have to convince all the HODLers that Bitcoin has no future, so they all cash out, and you can pick up their BTC for almost nothing.

So what are the banks left with?  A digital currency that no-one trusts.  If that's what they want, why not just save themselves a lot of time and effort, and create their own blockchain?

But that doesn't mean that the banks won't take over BTC - they'll just be much smarter about it.

What they'll do is simply press for Bitcoin to be under the same regulatory framework as fiat currencies.  They'll point to the scams, they'll point to the use by drug dealers, and in some countries they'll point to the use of BTC for illegal currency exports.  And they'll say "all these are reasons why all the normal banking regulations should apply to BTC".  And then they'll say that any entity that doesn't follow these regulations should be cut out of the system by making transactions with them illegal.

And this is what the majority of the population will want - they don't really care about the economic justifications for digital currency.  All they want is to be protected from scammers, and to feel that their money is safe.  And they trust the big banks for that, because by and large they've done a reasonable job of that.  (Bitcoin has a far worse record on bank stability.)

So the banks will slowly strangle Bitcoin, while making use of the technology with their own coins.  That's what they're already doing with Ripple, after all, where they're using the technology, but not the coins.

And maybe that's no bad thing.  If you truly believe in Bitcoin as an alternative currency, then the fiat link should be anathema to you.  Once the speculators have been squeezed out it will revert to its original intention - as a peer to peer currency independent of the financial system.  And your BTC will be worth just as much to you as they ever were.
2  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: European Banks Could Soon Hold Bitcoin - Give your opinons about BTC value!? on: February 08, 2018, 10:54:13 AM
If you read what he actually said, it equates to "If the EU banks were mad enough to start holding significant amounts of crypto, we'd have to  regulate them".  Whether you think that's correct or not, it certainly doesn't come over as a very positive statement.

Quote
One or two speakers touched on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Let me first say that we are not observing a systemically relevant holding of digital currencies by supervised institutions – by banks, in other words. Actually, the credit institutions established in the European Union are showing a limited appetite for digital currencies like Bitcoin, notwithstanding the high level of public interest. However, recent developments, such as the listing of Bitcoin futures contracts by US exchanges, could lead European banks too to hold positions in Bitcoin, and therefore we will certainly look at that.

However, we should understand that Bitcoin and other digital currencies are in the unregulated space and should be regarded as very risky assets. Virtual currencies are subject to high volatility and their prices are entirely speculative. Banks should measure the risk of any holdings of digital currencies in their portfolio accordingly. Right now, digital currencies are not subject to a specific supervisory approach. Work is under way in the Single Supervisory Mechanism to identify potential prudential risks that these digital assets could pose to supervised institutions.
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why does certain people called Bitcoin as bubble investment? on: February 08, 2018, 10:43:08 AM
It's being the intangibility of bitcoin that causes people to think bitcoin is a bubble, that they are thinking it could burst anytime. Unlike fiat money that you can see or hold it with your hands and the fact that it is backed by the government. But as for people who are already in the cryptoverse for the longest time, we all know that crypto has a potential and could substitute fiat in the future.

While all that may be true for you, it's pretty obvious that even on this forum most people are into Bitcoin because they see it as a "get rich quick" solution.  That's classic for a bubble. 

That doesn't mean there isn't an underlying value, just that at the moment it's swamped by the bubble.
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can logic sway the BTC community? (Segwit is dead) on: February 08, 2018, 10:29:45 AM
So in summary, from reading this thread:

1) Miners voted for Segwit, and it got approved.
2) Most of them haven't implemented it yet, so the block size charts don't show a huge change.
3) Coinbase say they're going to go live with it in the next few days

Sounds like we need to wait a little while to see what happens.
5  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Strange Shape of the Bitcoin Graph on: February 06, 2018, 01:04:19 PM
I'm not sure I totally agree with that - to me the shape of the curve suggests that there the people buying are buying in much greater amounts than the people selling.
6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Strange Shape of the Bitcoin Graph on: February 06, 2018, 12:19:16 PM
If you've looked at share price graphs, you'll notice that they tend to rise gradually, interspersed with sudden large falls.

The Bitcoin price graph over the last month is the opposite of that.  It's a gradual decline, with the occasional sudden jump.

Any opinions on why that is?
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unfortunately people will learn the hard way that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme on: February 06, 2018, 10:13:21 AM
Bitcoin's inherent value comes from the technology.

That is, I'm afraid, completely wrong.  The technology is open source and so can be used by anyone to set-up their own blockchain.

Bitcoin's value is mostly from it's brand, the fact that most people have heard of it.

(There is a little bit of value from it being a means of exchange, but that value has almost been destroyed by its recent volatility - the number one requirement for a means of exchange is that it be reasonably stable.  That underlying value will return once the speculators have been burnt and left.)
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this the end of the Digital coins? on: February 06, 2018, 08:38:12 AM
I think you have to distinguish between the technology, and the current coins.

The technology will grow and prosper, because it's useful to the big players.

The current coins will become almost worthless as the big players have no interest in preserving your wealth when they could just create their own coins and save themselves a lot of money.
9  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unfortunately people will learn the hard way that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme on: February 06, 2018, 08:32:01 AM
Bitcoin is a movement with genuine ideals and underlying value.

Unfortunately it's been hijacked by others to build a ponzi scheme on top of, and that element dwarfs the real value.
10  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Crash: At what point should one rebalance? on: February 05, 2018, 03:12:14 PM
If you "double-down" it will increase your chance of becoming very rich, but it will also increase your chance of becoming very poor.

It's a personal decision whether the benefit of the former outweighs the risk of the latter.
11  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The answer to all of your price questions - NO BITCOIN WILL NOT DIE!!!!!!!! on: February 05, 2018, 02:37:24 PM
Since bitcoin is a digital currency,the fluctuation of price is very common.

So what you're saying is that digital currency is useless in the real world?  For a currency to be useful, it's value has to be predictable - that's why hyper-inflation is so bad.
12  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can we all please accept.. on: February 05, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
Governments will not win if there are many people supporting it.

Actually, most people have a life.  They've got better things to do with their time than support Bitcoin.

They're quite happy to use a bank because it makes their life easier.
13  Economy / Speculation / Re: Please stop selling! on: February 05, 2018, 12:45:33 PM
Current BTC owners probably fall into four groups

1) Those who are using BTC to buy things (probably about 1%)
2) Those who believe in BTC so much that they'd continue to support it even if they made a loss in doing so (about 1%)
3) Those who believe in BTC, but only as long as they make a profit out of it (about 50%).
4) Those who are only in it for the profit (the rest).

It's only when you get rid of the last two categories that BTC will find its real price.
14  Economy / Speculation / Re: CAN ANYONE PLEASE SHED SOME LIGHT? WHAT'S WRONG WITH BTC? on: February 05, 2018, 12:32:29 PM
Are the banks and big hedgers truly suppressing in order to scoop up more BTC cheaply?
If the banks got convinced that cryptocurrency was the future the first thing they'd do is create their own blockchain, and cut the existing BTC holders out.  So it doesn't make any sense that they're manipulating the BTC price.
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