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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Nothing-at-Stake & Long Range Attack on Proof-of-Stake (Consensus Research) on: January 15, 2015, 07:27:15 AM
Regarding history attack, I will introduce in this topic another very interesting idea from NXT that is not yet implemented but could solve concerns with hidden history rebuilding, it's called Economic Clustering.

In Economic Clustering, basically, all transactions have to include a signed reference to an older block or transaction in the history, so if an attacker gets the keys of an account that used to have huge amounts of stake (those close to the genesis of the coin) and tries to reconstruct his/her own version of history in isolation it's impossible to rebuild it including the transactions of the rest of the economy and collect any of their fees, simply because the hashes of the new history will never match those included in the transactions previously broadcast.
If you already belong to the network and see the hidden branch being released your client can immediately spot the fake history as not including any transaction that you know about (from you or from a list of known companies/entities).

I see it as a social consensus: to fool the history you need to pro-actively involve a majority of the network signing the scam.

This solution is already implemented in BitShares, though called something different (TaPoS):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=354573.0
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 26, 2014, 07:38:40 AM

* PTS is a stable 'currency-DAC' and sharedrop token. It is designed primarily to provide a stable unit of account with fair distribution, and to be a launching pad for feature-specific DACs (some of which may compete directly or indirectly with BTS). PTS is a reference implementation of DPoS and is the original and preferred sharedrop token. It cannot and will not compete with BTS on specific features or within specific industries. Rather, PTS is an investment in the protocol and the ecosystem of future BitShares DACs.


Just to clarify, is there still an expectation that future Bitshares DACS will sharedrop a minimum 10% to PTS holders (as per the social consensus)?

Obviously it would be for each DAC to decide whether to honour it. However if the social consensus still holds that would make DPoS-PTS a very attractive proposition.

Absolutely. The social consensus was never altered. Here is a quote from Stan just today:

Quote from: Stan
...PTS and AGS would remain unchanged by us and might have utility for third party developers.  Our exact words were: 

"They also remain compelling demographics for third party developers to target in their share drops."
...


3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: BitShares PTS (formerly ProtoShares) Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 26, 2014, 04:42:09 AM
i think the price of pts alway down is not good news , it seems decrease 1k times than the price before Sad

To reiterate, the supply of PTS in the new chain has been scaled to 1 Billion tokens. The reduction in the price represents this scaling. To find the amount of your stake in the new chain, multiply your old stake by about 567x.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 26, 2014, 04:32:53 AM
Thanks for the clarification @ Bitcube.
So, Bitshares PTS wont be getting the 10% shares from BitsharesX DAC, right?
Also, i could see alphabar's trying to promote PTS as the base currency for the bitshares platform.
Isn't it like competing with the BTSX directly?

The BitsharesX snapshot has already transpired and already sharedropped 50% to PTS and 50% to AGS (the social consensus requires a minimum of 10% each). Also BTSX is now rebranded as just 'Bitshares' (BTS) and Invictus (the "company" that created the Bitshares software) is now disbanded. The original core developers are still working hard on BTS, but are now employed by the blockchain rather than a centralized corporate entity (this was done for obvious reasons). The new Bitshares uses an inflationary protocol that enables delegates to be paid for supporting the network in ways other that just block production. This new funding model enables the currency to incentivize rapid development and innovation. So, we are left with both BTS and PTS. These two tokens are not direct competitors, and are rather symbiotic for at least the following reasons:

* Both tokens promote DPoS as the most secure, innovative, and efficient consensus algorithm in the world.
* BTS was sharedropped 50% to PTS and thus represents a largely overlapping demographic.
* They use slightly different implementations of DPoS. BTS uses targeted inflation to raise funds for development/etc, while PTS is deflationary. In PTS, a delegate with a 100% pay rate receives 100% of the fees in the blocks that they produce. A 0% pay rate would simply burn those fees, thus reducing the supply and increasing the value of everyone else's shares.
* BTS is a true 'DAC' (distributed autonomous corporation), and is designed to rapidly evolve and to disrupt a variety of industries (DNS, Vote, Banking/Exchange, etc). BTS is the Ferrari of crypto-currencies and has cutting edge features found in no other coin.
* PTS is a stable 'currency-DAC' and sharedrop token. It is designed primarily to provide a stable unit of account with fair distribution, and to be a launching pad for feature-specific DACs (some of which may compete directly or indirectly with BTS). PTS is a reference implementation of DPoS and is the original and preferred sharedrop token. It cannot and will not compete with BTS on specific features or within specific industries. Rather, PTS is an investment in the protocol and the ecosystem of future BitShares DACs.

I think at this point most people realize that the crypto wars will not result in a single consolidated token used by every person and for every application. Rather, as Andreas puts it, there will likely be a few or a handful of tokens that take a majority of the marketshare. The rest will make up a long tail of tokens directed towards increasingly niche applications. If you believe this to be true, then it stands that both BTS and PTS can be enormously successful without competing directly for market share.
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 22, 2014, 06:19:24 AM

when I try to withdraw some from BTER , i use the key PTS7ZZ4TLG77G3ucATjFXUZH5gmEhGmGiYwy4nghvq8VbGBg97UE3

But doesnt work , then i try adding a memo and still doesnt work  .

I sent you some funds. Let me know if you received it and, if so, go ahead an register an account. Please also make sure you are using the latest client (version 2.0.1: https://github.com/PTS-DPOS/PTS/releases). Cheers.

thanks

How come your fee was only 5 but it going to cost me 25 fee

also how much does it cost to register

To answer this and your prior question about fees:

* minimum transfer fee is 5PTS (I did not know my default was set to this)
* recommended transfer fee is 25PTS
* account registration fee is 100PTS

*Edit: sent you some more funds, I think I may have sent only 50PTS the first time. D'oh!
6  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 22, 2014, 04:33:11 AM

when I try to withdraw some from BTER , i use the key PTS7ZZ4TLG77G3ucATjFXUZH5gmEhGmGiYwy4nghvq8VbGBg97UE3

But doesnt work , then i try adding a memo and still doesnt work  .

I sent you some funds. Let me know if you received it and, if so, go ahead an register an account. Please also make sure you are using the latest client (version 2.0.1: https://github.com/PTS-DPOS/PTS/releases). Cheers.
7  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 22, 2014, 12:51:23 AM
The memo is optional and has nothing to do with your account. Bter allows withdrawal to either (1) a registered account name or (2) a public key of an unregistered account from your client. If you leave your public key here I can send you some PTS to get you started.

For clarification: when you launch your client you will be asked to enter an account name. This account will remain 'unregistered' until you fund the account and click the option to register the account. If you want to send money to this 'unregistered' account, you need to do the following:

1) Click 'My Accounts' in the left menu bar
2) Click the name of an existing account on this page (or click "Create New Account" to create a new one)
3) On the next page, under your account name, you will see an 'Account Key' which is a long hash address starting with the letters 'PTS...'. This is your account's public key. You can fund your account by sending PTS to this account key.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
8  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: BitShares PTS (formerly ProtoShares) Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 22, 2014, 12:20:37 AM
is there a basic step buy step to become a delegate ?

There are the instructions for BitShares: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Delegate/How-To

You will need to adapt this for PTS. You can ask any questions you have in out forum: www.ptstalk.org, or you can always wait until our wiki is updated.
9  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 21, 2014, 11:13:18 PM
can someone tell me how i register account if i cant transfer funds from bter to a unregistered account so i have funds to register.
i got this error when i tried "cancelled:PTS account is not registered or memo is too long"

funny i just asked the same question at the PTS

http://pts.cubeconnex.com/index.php?topic=133.0
i have been reading through all the forums and i cant find anything about "memo" and how to withdraw to and unregistered wallet

The memo is optional and has nothing to do with your account. Bter allows withdrawal to either (1) a registered account name or (2) a public key of an unregistered account from your client. If you leave your public key here I can send you some PTS to get you started.
10  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: BitShares PTS (formerly ProtoShares) Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 19, 2014, 08:49:19 PM
I will leave you with one message from myself, the core devs, delegates, and supporters: we're just getting started. I can say without hesitation that BitShares PTS is currently the most undervalue coin in existence. Think of the competitive advantages we have:

* PTS is the original sharedrop token. Why buy mining equipment or mint stake for a 1% return when you can buy into an entire ecosystem of new DACs just by holding PTS? As the interest in Bitcoin clones declines, developer interest in the BitShares Toolkit and the DPoS protocol are at an all-time high.
* PTS is a reference implementation of the BitShares Toolkit. Developers will choose to fork PTS and honor the social consensus because we will provide them with the knowledge, resources, and support to make their projects successful.
* Provably fair 100% proof of work distribution. No other DPoS coin has this.
* Deflationary DPoS protocol. Again, found only in PTS
11  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: BitShares PTS (formerly ProtoShares) Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 19, 2014, 08:46:59 PM
/\yes believe me if cryptsy and polo don't figure it out soon we are going to have to spearhead a community effort to get to the bottom of this! The states the exchanges are registered in do not take internet fraud issues lightly...tbc     Wink     ~thanks team!!!

I personally notified cryptsy of the upgrade on multiple occasions and with plenty of advanced notice. I will continue to pressure them to honor user's stake in the new chain, but unfortunately things do not look good. Cryptsy has never honored a sharedrop or listed a DPoS coin on their exchange (BTS being the most glaring absence). The good news is that they have suspended trading of the old chain, which will help to reduce scams and confusion among their own users. One of the reasons we scaled the supply to 1 Billion was to make it infeasible for people to sell their worthless "old PTS" after the snapshot (since they would now need to discount it by 567X which makes the tokens effectively worthless).

PTS shareholders: If I can help you in any way, please let me know. I am at your service. You are also invited to join us on our new forum: www.ptstalk.org
12  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 18, 2014, 01:17:33 AM
Anybody knows what up with bter ?  Angry trading still frozen since 4 days...

Bter is working hard to build the wallet and enable trading. Patience please! Smiley
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched on: December 18, 2014, 01:14:43 AM
Agree 100%. The devs saying they "support" this are doing so as a good faith gesture so they don't look like bad guys going against the "social consensus" (that was effectively eliminated upon the merger). And they know there's no way to completely eliminate PTS or someone else will just try to resurrect it all over again, so might as well support it. The devs even returned all PTS donated to them over the past year to show they no longer have any affiliation to PTS after ultimately buying them out with an airdrop of BTS. I cannot support alphaBar PTS as it is no longer indicative of the core BTS community whatsoever. BTS is where it's at.

So they are lying to us. They secretly hate this project but they are going out of their way to support it. TestZ, the custodian of PTS, is also lying about his support which he literally just posted immediately prior to your comment. Flawless logic!

The truth is that PTS has never been better positioned than it is today. As the interest in Bitcoin clones wanes, the Bitshares Toolkit is shaping up to be the choice implementation of the most innovative DACs. PTS is an investment in every future coin built on this technology. Why buy one coin when you can invest in the entire ecosystem?
14  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched on: December 17, 2014, 04:39:03 PM
One dumb question:
i downloaded the new wallet and bought some PTS on exchange, but how am i supposed to withdraw the coins from exchange to my wallet if i don't have coins in wallet to register my account in the blockchain ?

Not a dumb question at all. You can get your public key for your unregistered account from the client, and use that to receive funds. If you paste it here or PM me I can send you some. Smiley
15  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched on: December 17, 2014, 04:32:58 PM
Thats false advertising. Core I3 DACs (Bitshares, MUSIC and PLAY) are already allotted, and the future 3rd party DACs have no obligation or incentive to sharedrop on alphaBar PTS (stop calling it Bitshares PTS).

For all those who are confused with the Bitshares name, PTS was originally one of the two sharedrop vehicles for I3 DACs. Last month Bitshares decided to merge and also awarded stake to the PTS holders, and as far as they are concerned PTS is irrelevant. alphaBar, with support from some of the community, decided to create a DPoS version of it and keep it running.

Amazing that you will continue to spread your lies everywhere you go. Dan, Stan, Testz, all of the major exchanges, coinmarketcap, and a long list of other core devs have supported the project. Bytemaster updated the original github repository just a couple of days ago with this message (https://github.com/BitShares/BitShares-PTS):

Quote
BitShares PTS is being upgraded to DPOS based on a snapshot on December 14th 2014. The new repository can be found here: https://github.com/PTS-DPOS/PTS http://ptscrypto.com

Here is another message from Stan:

This is awesome guys.  Nice job!
I look forward to seeing PTS back in the Top 20 soon.
Gandalf the Grey reappearing to our delight as Gandalf the White!



But trolls will be trolls!!!
16  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched on: December 17, 2014, 07:44:16 AM
BitShares PTS has been upgraded from the slow and inefficient proof of work chain to Delegated Proof of Stake (see here). Poloniex trading is live, Bter upgrade is under development. Remember, BitShares PTS holders receive a perpetual dividend in the form of ownership in every future BitShares DAC.

Specifications/Features

* 10 second block confirmation (!)
* Supply is scaled to 1,000,000,000 (1 Billion) PTS
* Fair 100% proof of work distribution, no premine
* True anonymity using TITAN technology
* No ugly hash addresses (send and receive to usernames)
* Deflationary protocol (transaction fees burned according to delegate pay rate)


17  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: which coins have proof of stake? on: December 17, 2014, 07:30:17 AM
Even better than earning interest is the Bitshares social consensus: just for holding Bitshares PTS you get an at least 10% sharedrop in all future Bitshares DACs (decentralized autonomous companies). PTS just hard forked to use Delegated Proof of Stake (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878059.0), which means that in addition to being the original sharedrop instrument, PTS is the first DPoS coin with 100% PoW distribution, no premine, and no inflation. Coinmarketcap will be updated shortly. Poloniex has resumed trading on the new chain and Bter will transition and resume trading soon.
18  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 17, 2014, 06:41:33 AM
marketcap should take a jump, its moving from an old nearly stalled network to one thats speedy. reliability & confidence Wink

10 second transaction times are a healthy improvement over 1 block per day Tongue. And it seems 3rd party devs are really warming up to DPoS, which makes this a great time to buy some PTS to receive a piece of every future Bitshares DAC:

Quote
The BitShares platform will eventually grow to include a variety of different applications built upon a shared foundation of open source software known as the BitShares Toolkit. Bitshares PTS uses the core implementation of the BitShares Toolkit.

The BitShares platform enables more than just currency. It is software that can be used to build a variety of different autonomous business applications. Any person who uses BitShares software to build such an application is encouraged to “give back” a percentage of the value they create to current holders of BitShares PTS. This voluntary grant to PTS shareholders is commonly referred to as the Bitshares social consensus. In this way, your investment in BitShares PTS can earn you a share of any technology built on the BitShares software!

Source: www.ptscrypto.com
19  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 17, 2014, 06:31:50 AM
Dont you think 25 PTS transaction cost , are a bit tooo high ?  Sad Angry

25 PTS is the recommended fee, 5PTS is the minimum. The original fee was 0.1 PTS which is roughly equivalent to 57PTS in the new chain. As you can see the fee amount is significantly lower than before, but high enough to compensate delegates for their service. Let me know if you have any other questions. Cheers.
20  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] BitShares PTS Mandatory Upgrade & Snapshot Announcement on: December 17, 2014, 02:58:28 AM
What PTS is being traded on Poloniex?

it's 95% down from the value of the PTS on bter.
Bter PTS is still frozen. Also old PTS v1 had what 700-800 thousand, new DPOS PTS has 1 billion so the price should be expected to equalize at hopefully the same marketcap adjusted for new supply size.. and yes Polo is on the new version per:

Quote
TheSherpa: OldManKidd, sorry to bug ya, is this the new protoshares blockchain or reopened trading on the old one?
Quote
OldManKidd: TheSherpa, its the updated

Hopefully Bter reopens it soon!

so do you get the same proportion to market cap on the new blockchain as you had on the old?

there was only 700 thousand market cap for PTS v1 !!??

Yes, proportion is exactly the same, only scaled by a factor of about 567x. In other words, multiply your "old" PTS by 567 to get your stake in the new chain. Looks like the market cap has taken quite a jump, but time will tell. Smiley
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