Bitcoin Forum
June 26, 2024, 09:06:54 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 »
1  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: July 01, 2018, 09:40:59 AM
I strongly appreciate the presence of this bitcoin paper currency. It provides a good sign for bitcoin to perform its function as a means of payment. This also becomes a breakthrough technological innovation that can bring bitcoin better known to the public at large. This also benefits the bitcoin because people's trust in bitcoin can return well again and many people choose bitcoin for transactions and investments. That’s a bit of my opinion about bitcoin banknotes. Hopefully, bitcoin banknotes is soon realized and socialized well.

Thank you! You can help already by becoming a Tangem Merchant and spreading the banknotes around while making a profit :-) https://tangem.com/sell

What is the denomination of banknotes in these terminals?Do you know?

We currently print 0.01 BTC and 0.05 BTC. We're also starting to print other tokens. At the moment there are no «terminals» — these smart banknotes are sold and accepted manually. However, we're planning to manufacture certain hardware.

2  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: June 21, 2018, 10:03:05 AM
That's quite another revolution in the crypto world; i would just about love to have some BTC bills in my literal wallet, probably pay my tithes with it. Its a welcome innovation for me.

Haha! Coming to you soon!

awesome that bitcoin has now its physical image this will be the beginning of a mass adoption of bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

We hope so. People are visual, physical creatures and Bitcoin sorely needs better, human-friendly interfaces to use it.

Is this a good breakthrough for bitcoin? I myself do not really understand whether this is really necessary for bitcoin at this time. Because this seems to be useless if bitcoin users are still not too many and still many people who do not know about the bitcoin itself.

About two billion people have heard about Bitcoin by now, but it's too cumbersome for most of them to try. The earliest holders of Tangem Notes in Singapore were predominantly first time users — and they are spreading the knowledge by showing the physical Bitcoin to everyone they meet and explaining as much as they can.

While it is difficult to imagine how these banknotes will go as a means of payment, but how they can be used as bonds. The organization that issued them should guarantee their redemption at par value in the case of presentation for payment.

Fortunately Tangem as a business does not have to guarantee anything — the Bitcoin value is physically on the smart banknotes, inside a highly secure chip, and can only be accessed by the current holder.

It would definitely be possible to use Bitcoin "banknotes" in this way, as bonds, but personally, I don't see a lot of purpose in that, especially when you can just keep your bitcoins on the blockchain while the keys to your coins in some safe place outside it. Really, what if this device fails or malfunctions due to natural wear and tear (or because of some other reason), what are going to do with it then, throw it away? Bonds as they are bring you interest, but what kind of interest these devices are going to give you? There's none, so they are pretty useless in this field of application. Apart from that, you don't need redemption as you can "redeem" the bitcoins in this device yourself.

These thingies are basically a hardware wallet (like Opendime sticks).

I think right now Tangem notes are the safest way to hold Bitcoin in the world. If you keep it physically secure, it should work for centuries (40 years certified), but more importantly the private key does not have a copy. With almost any other way there's always a risk someone would have a copy and you could lose everything.

While Opendime is closest to Tangem in principle, it follows a different security model and is less friendly to the mass consumer, we believe. Nonetheless, we are big fans of their work :-)
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes Debut in Singapore on: June 13, 2018, 05:49:49 AM
That's a great idea, hope not only bitcoin banks notes but also eth and other more stable coins . If the banks will release its crypto, I I think the users will welcome as long as the princyple of cryptocurrency is the same, anonymity and decentralization.

Tangem technology supports ETH and ERC20, we're looking to partner with certain gold–backed stable coins.

Is this backwards? Cryptocurrency is more advanced than banknotes. Bitcoin's goal is to use electronic payments instead of banknotes. If bitcoins are made into banknotes, then Bitcoin will lose its meaning.

Tangem Notes are smart banknotes with extremely advanced electronics inside. They are not a replacement for the digital nature of Bitcoin, rather a user–friendly, simple, and secure physical interface to crypto. The fact that smartphones and bitcoin ATMs are physical does not mean they are in contradiction with the digital properties of coins.

If you lose your paper note what would happen to the Bitcoins backing it?

Plus how do the banks make money in doing this? There has to be an incentive.

Bitcoin is on a chip inside each Tangem Note; if you lose or destroy a note, the Bitcoin is lost. If someone else finds or steals a note, they have the Bitcoin.

Tangem Notes are essentially smart cards, consumers are paying a reasonable premium when buying / selling Tangem Notes in retail compared to current rate of BTC. Part of that premium is covering physical production.

Who will provide digital transactions when somebody pay with this banknotes?

The beauty of Tangem Notes is that Bitcoin transactions can now be physical. As BTC is inside each note, you only need one digital transaction to «load» the note when it's manufactured and sold and another digital transaction to «extract» its value back to another wallet — when the note is no longer needed.

If I was a newbie and I was presented with this Bitcoin banknote, then I would be totally confused. I also doubt if the Singapore government will tolerate people that are printing currency, even if they are just printing the "carrier" of that currency in the form of a Banknote.  Roll Eyes

The reality is, 99% of newbies understand physical bitcoins immediately and without any questions. And the government of Singapore is far smarter than what you seem to think.

does it have a QR code where users can turn it into a digital bitcoin?

it will be cool if people buying it can scan a qr code of these banknotes so they can sent the coin online and pay to ecommerce accepting btc

QR codes are insecure. A special chip inside each Tangem Note carriers the whole BTC value and can be validated and extracted at any time using a compatible Android smartphone with NFC.

- is the banknote safe from the Bitcoin address and its private key?
- whether when the paper will be outdated / destroyed can still be used Bitcoin it?

The private key is created by the chip when manufactured and can never be seen. The public key and address can be easily seen via NFC. The smart banknote can sign transactions with its private key without disclosing it.

If a Tangem Note is destroyed before its value is extracted, the Bitcoin is lost forever. They are made of an extremely resilient type of plastic with a highly protected chip inside, quite difficult to damage compared to paper cash.

You can always extract the value, whether «outdated» or not, whatever that means. The notes are currently certified for 40 years of service, but will likely last centuries.
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes Debut in Singapore on: May 27, 2018, 06:01:11 AM
Wow! Cool banknotes! They can only be bought in Singapore?

You can order a special Pioneer Kit from tangem.com — it's not cheap though. We're setting up pilot distribution around the world fast as we can.
5  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [04-05-2018] Physical Bitcoin Smart Banknotes Launched In Signapore on: May 18, 2018, 04:07:46 PM
You're contradicting yourself perfectly. It doesn't matter how simple the firmware is, it's proprietary, and that means users cannot verify your claims without spending the BTC from these notes.

Tangem notes don't need "independent certification" or "manufacturer attestation" if there's no need to trust anyone. That literally means customers are being invited to trust your attestations and certifications.


A significant part of what makes Bitcoin valuable is that anyone can verify the validity of a payment, not just a company paid by a manufacturer to do so. The previous physical Bitcoin producers (or at least Casascius anyway) were very upfront that trust was essential to their product, that made it easier to trust them. The fact that you at Tangem either don't understand that, or are wilfully misrepresenting the fact, makes it much much more difficult to trust you or your notes.

You're drawing your perceived contradictions from using the word «trust» with materially different connotations for a rhetorical effect. Compare:

1. I informedly trust this airplane not to crash, because: authorities are certifying it, Boeing is a serious business, engineers are not murderers, there are many failsafes, planes rarely crash.

2. I blindly trust this stranger to hit an apple on my head with a gun from 30 feet, because: they say they can, how hard can it be, why would anyone want to shoot me, it's so cool.

Tangem was carefully designed and built into #1, Casascius, in any engineer's eyes, is #2.

Our goal is to structure the product in a way where we can't do anything harmful, out of malice or stupidity, even if we really wanted to — including the edge cases of a sudden dissolution of the company or even hostile takeover. Every product will still function forever, and be secure for its lifetime.

To this end, we already closed the trust loop — by keeping the product simple (relatively tiny attack surface) and bridging multinational certifications with independent audit of unquestionable integrity on top of a simple open protocol and reference implementations.

In the consumer space, there's no hardware product that even claims this level of security, much less achieves it.
6  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [04-05-2018] Physical Bitcoin Smart Banknotes Launched In Signapore on: May 16, 2018, 07:42:25 AM
You can't really give a Tangem note to someone else, there's nothing to prove that there isn't another Tangem note that has access to the same private key. Except Tangem promising there isn't, of course.

The chip is highly secure and independently certified. Our proprietary firmware is beautifully simple and audited by Kudelski Group, look it up. https://twitter.com/kudelski/status/994105585825144832

The chip and firmware guarantee no import or export of keys is possible — the chip creates it's own unique private key and can never disclose it. There's manufacturer attestation mechanism on the same secure chip to prevent any chance of counterfeits. You don't have to trust anyone.

If I understand this correctly, the chip within the card can be read by a mobile phone and the mobile phone is connected to their APP which links to the Blockchain. So you are not accessing the companies own ledger, with some tokens linked to the card. You have access to the coins that are linked to the Blockchain.

You need a phone with NFC enabled to access the information on the card.

Correct, there's nothing between the chip and the blockchain, no company can control it — just an open NFC protocol and our open–source reference apps.

7  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [04-05-2018] Physical Bitcoin Smart Banknotes Launched In Signapore on: May 14, 2018, 01:55:17 PM
Sounds interesting, but still got a question "Why??"
We need to take crypto to the billions.

I'm a bit divided here. First I think that using a mobile wallet on a phone is much simpler that making payments with these notes. People can just charge their mobile wallet, so that they don't need to be carrying a lot of money "on their phone", and they can then spend them just by scanning the QR code. It's much easier than carrying bills. Of course that I do understand that for some users, specially the elderly, this new way of spending money could be harder, so using this Physical Bitcoin system could help them. I don't see a great future on them, besides helping on a transition phase. They could also become some kind of cold wallet, so maybe they are aiming for that, I don't know.

Tangem Notes are not for small transactions — they are more likes USD 100 and EUR 500 bills, for larger transactions and savings. Technically ever Tangem Note *is* a very secure cold wallet.

Ok, I am intrigued by this. Will this work like the old Casascius physical bitcoins, where you have the private keys stored on the physical coin or card or will this be administered by a third party and this card will just link you to their internal database via the Semiconductor’s S3D350A chips?

So will the manufacturer of the cards be in control of the private keys or would the private keys be stored on the chip? The ownership of the private key is the most important factor in this technology.  Wink

Only the chip creates and controls the private key, it's impossible to export or import the key. The firmware is audited and the chip is highly certified. The manufacturer is not in control and even if Tangem disappears or is taken over, the notes will work safely, forever.

8  Local / Новости / Re: В Сингапуре запущены банкноты биткойна. on: May 14, 2018, 01:45:35 PM
Привет! Со-основатель Tangem тут.

Да всем все равно на суть крипто денег. Все хотят нажиться на этом. Они поняли как могут привлечь дополнительную часть людей, вот и запустили печатные биткоины Grin
Суть крипты, как и интернета, в полной децентрализации. Tangem Notes содействуют этому, каждая умная банкнота — самостоятельное блокчейн–устройство, без привязки к какому-либо центру.

Сразу вопрос возникает: каким образом определятся будет стоимость этой монеты или бумажки которую они выдадут? Там будет встроенный курс валюты относительно доллара? Ведь цена каждый день скачет.

А может будет обновление стоимости как в банке, меняется каждый час, и продается по новой цене. Но Сингапур, наверное, первый выпустил именно банкноты биткойна, это хороший показатель роста интереса к криптовалютам.

Tangem Notes имеют крипту внутри себя на чипе, стоимость таких банкнот в магазинах соответствует курсу BTC, плюс налог и маржа. Некоторые магазины обновляют курс раз в день, некоторые раз в минуту — решают сами по ситуации.

Интересно что на эти банкноты можно купить?

Это обычный BTC, прямо сейчас на Tangem Notes можно купить, например, драгоценные металлы, и сразу же продать их за сингапурские доллары. Или вывести на свой BTC–кошелёк и купить что угодно онлайн.

Сразу вопрос возникает: каким образом определятся будет стоимость этой монеты или бумажки которую они выдадут? Там будет встроенный курс валюты относительно доллара? Ведь цена каждый день скачет.

Это кстати хороший вопрос! Но так как они номинированы в BTC - обмен или продажа будут идти видимо по текущему курсу + % вероятно

Всё так. Маржу определяют ритейлеры, в неё заложена стоимость банкноты. В Сингапуре биткоин к тому же облагается налогом с продаж.

Я бы такие с удовольствием прикупил - хранить удобно!

Ограниченное количество специальной версии банкнот доступно с сайта компании https://tangem.com

Кажется не очень идея тогда, если потеряешь. Приватного ключа же у тебя нет или я неправильно понял?

Да, это наличный Bitcoin, старайтесь не терять наличные деньги. Приватный ключ только внутри банкноты и достать его оттуда невозможно. Пока это единственный вариант обеспечить децентрализованное хождение физического BTC.

Вопрос: кто печатает банкноты? Ведь крипта - это валюта генерированная децентрализовано многими компами по всему миру. Обеспечена ли банкнота цифровым битком? Т.е. я перечисляю конторе битки, и она мне выдает бумажек на эту сумму? А обратный процесс обмена банкнот на цифровую валюту имеется?

Крипта внутри каждой банкноты и не контролируется никем, кроме физического держателя. Bitcoin из умной банкноты можно извлечь любым телефоном Android с хорошим NFC. Займёт это одну–две минуты идеального контакта с банкнотой — для безопасности.

Биткоин не особо славится репутацией надёжной и анонимной валюты. Если кто-то хочет бесконтрольных транзакций и выводов средств, то лучше присмотреть к нескольким альтам, гарантирующим анонимность (зикеш, деш)

Физические транзакции Tangem Note надёжнее, быстрее, дешевле и анонимнее ZK–схем. Единственное ограничение: транзакции физические.

Прежде чем городить бред, потрудились бы хоть бегло со статьей ознакомиться. Каждая смарт-банкнота по сути представляет собой кошелек с хранящемся на нем соответственной суммы биткоина. При утрате или уничтожении смарт-банкноты будет так же потерян и биткоин.

Спасибо Smiley
9  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes Debut in Singapore on: May 13, 2018, 06:07:32 AM
It's a good step in integrating bitcoin in the society, but it may take sime time before the public can really enjoy the convenience of cryptocurrency. Hope other countries will follow suit.
For clarity, Singapore was just convenient to start, there's no backing from the government. We hope to expand Tangem to many countries as we solve cross–border crypto–fiat logistics, which is not yet trivial.

It's just a novelty item that will probably fade away after a while. People are just hyped because it's something new Tongue
I also don't really see anything ground breaking here, they're just releasing small paper wallets in essence.
Paper wallets cannot be circulated reliably. Opendime comes close to circulation, but is too complicated to use and not secure enough (in our opinion) for mass adoption. Tangem Notes, we claim, are the first physical instruments ready for billion–scale everyday use by everyone who knows how to use paper cash.

That said, I'd probably buy one, just as a collectors item, if I can get my hands on one of them.
You can request a free sample (we ship selectively) or order a Pioneer Kit from our homepage at https://tangem.com
10  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: May 13, 2018, 06:01:28 AM
Great idea but not really that feasible with the logistics and architecture to be put in place for acceptance (at an early stage of course if idea takes off). But seems ironic we are try to rid the world of physical cash in our communities - but yet adding plastic cards, be it all very clever they are too. Saying that, it is a good look upon the general uptake and adoption of Bitcoin, and maybe some of these cards will find their way into the hands of new people, who have only maybe heard about this magic internet money..
The rhetorical fallacy of «cashless society» is really very simple. You're not getting rid of cash, you're replacing it with a behemoth monolith of an infrastructure which is catastrophically centralized.

One question is, say if I have a 0.01 Bitcoin card gifted to me; I then go on to buy a coffee at the local coffee house, where does the change go?
We start in the ballpark of USD100 and USD500 bills because that's where the most demand is. They are not meant for coffee shops, but rather casual experimenting, savings, gifts, storage, transactions where fractions below 0.01 BTC do not really matter. They are meant to be spent physically, whole.

That said, a willing coffee shop will give you change in fiat. And we're working on another exciting solution to small payments.
11  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes Debut in Singapore on: May 11, 2018, 02:24:43 PM
I really don’t see the legal binding of this currency whatsoever and we shouldn’t encourage the physical denomination of bitcoins to say the least because when it is stolen it’s stolen like any other currency and this will lead to centralization as well.
It's the inability to steal that requires and leads to ultimate centralization.
I don't understand why people are so hyped about these banknotes. I would rather use a mobile wallet on my Android phone rather than carry such banknote with me all the time.
That's the whole point — the notes are for all the other people, billions of them, who'd like to get into crypto, but can't since setting up and maintaining a wallet is not easy or safe for them, and buying bitcoin is even harder.
12  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: May 11, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
I understand that someone might feel that crypto will become more tangible with banknotes, but the truth is that cash is slowly disappearing from the society, why would crypto need to go the opposite direction? future is cashless

The actual truth is, 150 billion banknotes are printed every year and growth is at 9% — much more dynamic than global economy.

Think about Tangem Notes as a familiar and secure physical interface to blockchain technology that enables more people to use it. Most of the «cashless» technologies you're thinking about are incredibly centralized and controlled. For actually decentralized ecosystems, a lot more tools need to be invented, scaled, and given to the people. Tangem is one of them.

It is absolutely impossible. Not only because of hundreds of technical issues that would arise, but more because of the idea that such modern currency would use such outdated representation. It would be absolutely inefficient and uncontrollable. I would say that this currency should stay in the electronic state, at best - on cards or phone apps.

The concepts of «cards» or apps you're thinking about are inherently backed by centralized companies. Crypto is about decentralization, trustless ecosystems, reclaiming control. People need to have finer grain control over their digital assets now and a smartphone alone cannot do it without siloed hierarchies.
13  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes Debut in Singapore on: May 09, 2018, 01:03:41 PM
I'm not sure if this is realy necessary. I mean bitcoin is virtual digital currency and banknotes isn't something that bitcoin realy needs.

Does Bitcoin need smartphones, hot wallets, hardware wallets, Internet, servers, OTC desks, exchanges? Of course not, it is as beautiful in the white paper as it is in the real world.

We can't make it any less digital. Tangem Notes are just an interface. Like your smartphone wallet. But 100x more understandable and accessible to 7 billion people.

Ok, you should really start clearing things on your website and add more details.

Now, back to questions..
Since indeed coins can be extracted from the banknotes, what is the procedure for doing this?

Second,
What's your business plan?
Your not going to produce all those banknotes and chips just out of goodwill.... Roll Eyes
Where is the profit of Tandem going to come from?

We're relatively small and young and focused on technology, but a complete rework of the website and other materials is in progress, of course.

You can extract funds from a Tangem Note by asking it, over NFC, to sign a transaction from itself to an arbitrary address. For security, the note will require a perfect connection with the smartphone for 60–120 seconds, which requires a compatible device with a good NFC sensor and carefully touching the note with it for the duration. After that the smartphone broadcasts the transaction to the network.

Tangem Notes are met with extreme enthusiasm in every market we approached. Distribution channels are setting their markups when selling loaded Tangem Notes, which includes a relatively small cost of the note itself. Our goal is to pursue the mass market in the widest sense — enabling billions of people to use crypto.

Good concept I guess? The challenge is to make them easy and quick to transact. The problem with this is that before you actually accept the "banknotes" you need to scan them one by one to confirm that it actually does contain some btc.

Correct me if there's something I missed.

Yeah, I see this becoming a problem though. It would be interesting if a banknote could in a sense "self destruct". It's not very user friendly to have to scan each note and then having to dispose them. Outside of long term storage I don't see these being very logical as an application or other form of integration would be easier to use on a daily basis.

Validation is quick, technically NFC can work through stacks of cards — we're working to make this possible with some Android smartphones — and for large cashflow situations we can make note counters. For national cryptocurrencies, governments can choose to restrict extraction to accredited entities, and protect their smart banknotes with both NFC and physical measures.
14  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: May 07, 2018, 03:51:32 AM
There are OpenDime devices on the market already, and they recently seem to have developed a new version of their disposable wallet.

Opendime is perhaps closest to Tangem Notes in terms of ideology. Like Ledger, Opendime uses secure electronics in addition to insecure chips. Our goal is to make Tangem Notes by far more secure and easier to use than any other technology on the market.
15  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes Debut in Singapore on: May 07, 2018, 03:29:54 AM
If all what infofarmer is saying is actually true than we gave a jackpot here  Cool
Shit looks awesome, at least in description. If this won't make BTC worldwide and approachable for anyone than I don't know what will.
I wonder what will happen with btc inside those notes when one gets destroyed, for example by washing machine?
Bitcoins are going to be lost as I presume? Some central banks allow to exchange broken fiat for brand new ones, can it be somehow done with those? Also what is the actual material used to make them? Ordinary paper or something bit more durable?

Thank you! Smiley

The current first production batch is made from the very expensive Melinex PETF by Dupont Teijin Films. It's a thinner–than–usual plastic card that is virtually indestructible. We haven't tested, but it might easily survive a thousand full cycles in a washing machine.
16  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: May 07, 2018, 03:16:52 AM
By the way how much would cost a single bitcoin banknote would be?

Does is have some sort of technology that it could connect to the internet and sync it's value to the current market?

The cost of Tangem Notes does not currently depend on denominations, although we might consider additional security mechanisms for very high value ones like 1 BTC. Currently we only ship 0.01 BTC and 0.05 BTC.

The Notes are always denominated in crypto, they don't need to be synced — an app can show their current market value.

I was think of this the past few weeks , OMG I can not believe that there is someone actually working on this , That is just amazing . The idea is so close to what was in my mind but I am not sure if it is similar . What was in my mind is to make this Banknote process a  decentralized process so anyone in the world can just scan his BTC and use it

Haha, the idea was there from the start of Bitcoin, I think, but it was really impossible to implement. The best the community could come up with was Opendime, which is great, but not user friendly and not as secure as I would like. Tangem Notes are made possible only with the latest advances in secure microelectronics in 2017, which finally caught up with blockchain and became powerful and energy efficient enough to perform Elliptic Curve Cryptography on an NFC chip.

Tangem Notes are completely decentralized, and can be used physically or digitally.

I have not thought about this: bitcoin paper money. When does that happen? If bitcoin is printed on paper money, it must be issued by the State and regulated in a stable manner.

The BTC is electronically stored on each Tangem Note, so there's zero need for any centralization or protective regulation. It's all made safe with state-of-the-art cryptographic mechanisms.
17  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: May 06, 2018, 09:47:34 AM
Can you expand on what the additional features are and how the basic version will differ? Also what ballpark price range are you talking about, say per 1000 units?

We're working with distributors around the world to figure out the right feature set and volume pricing. Aspects of reusability can be restricted in the basic variants meant primarily for physical circulation and fixed denominations.

The ones in the Pioneer Kit are more like full featured hardware Bitcoin wallets, only more secure, simpler to use, and much cheaper.
18  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes Debut in Singapore on: May 06, 2018, 09:38:56 AM
I wonder if they are going to keep the private keys of these notes themselves or what.

It's impossible for the manufacturer or anyone else to ever see the private keys — they are created and protected by an independently certified chip and audited firmware.

who is guaranteeing them

what rates

Nobody has to guarantee the value inside Tangem Notes — it is real Bitcoin inside and you can easily verify it with any NFC phone, and extract it to another wallet if you're sure you don't need the note anymore.

I guess this is more like a voucher than actual bank notes as they can only be used once unless you re-credit it with more bitcoin.

Each Tangem Note can be circulated forever — it takes a fraction of a second to validate it with any NFC phone. Tangem Notes are exactly like actual bank notes, only better — there's no risk of counterfeit, no risk of government devaluing your currency, and you can extract the value via NFC if you urgently need to send it digitally rather than physically.

That's good idea considering it's convenience. But i wouldn't buy/use this banknotes since there's no way to verify whether They keep the private key or not.
Also, passing private key instead make a transaction is risky, especially if they really keep all private key of their banknotes.

If this "banknotes" is 100% open-source and don't have any balance when issued, this might be great product.

We would never make Tangem Notes if there was no way to verify that it is impossible to have a copy of any private key Smiley The chip creates and protects the keys, it's a highly certified secure element with an independently audited firmware. We cannot open source the firmware at this time, but a summary from Kudelski Security will be published when they're done with their analysis. However, we are open–sourcing our reference app and the protocol.

You'll be able to get Tangem Notes without value on them. For most people, they need them loaded with Bitcoin already.

if bitcoin has a physical shape like fiat, i think the bitcoin character is gone. and will certainly reduce the quality of bitcoin value.

If we're successful reaching a billion people with Tangem Notes, BTC will be valued at over USD 1 million in current terms. Of course, governments will start adapting long before that.

So you can't extract the coins from the banknotes, and the only ones that can do this are the the ones issuing those....
It smells fishy, how can you be sure there aren't 5000 notes with the same address ?

Of course you can extract Bitcoin from Tangem Notes, you don't need their private keys for that, just a special signature. The chip cannot import a private key, only create its own unique one. The firmware is audited.

Once it has coins or notes, there should come a central agency that keeps track of ot.

Tangem Notes are completely decentralized and do not need the manufacturer, an issuer, or any third party to keep track of it. The value is inside them on a secure chip and they can be redeemed back to blockchain at any time via NFC — the same way you validate their authenticity and current value.

This is a good way of circulating bitcoin since it will bridge the gap between bitcoin and the areas without internet access. But the problem is that if those producers of those bitcoin smart banknotes are going to print notes more than the number of bitcoin they have in store.

Fortunately you don't need to trust the manufacturer — the Bitcoin value is inside each Tangem Note, can be verified over NFC and extracted at any time.
19  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: May 06, 2018, 09:13:06 AM
The organization that issued them should guarantee their redemption at par value in the case of presentation for payment.

Tangem Notes are completely trustless and decentralized beyond the multi–party security audit — in fact more trustless than any other current way to store Bitcoin. The chip is a tiny standalone HSM designed entirely for mission critical security applications and is completely air–gapped with just a tiny API to access it. You don't need anyone to guarantee their redemption as you can redeem Tangem Notes yourself with an NFC phone using an open protocol — or our reference apps (iOS open–sourced, Android to be open–sourced).

If it requires an NFC connection to chech the current balance, why the banknote is different from a mobile wallet?

Tangem Notes compare to mobile wallets same way fiat banknotes compare to mobile banking apps. Except mobile banking actually has banks behind them, while mobile wallets are relatively insecure. For most people without a background in engineering and security Tangem Notes are by far the safest way to store Bitcoin right now.

You do a beta test with bitcoin and after you can start to work with national currencies?

We want entrepreneurs, financial organizations, and governments to use the base Tangem technology for thousands of different tokens, currencies, and applications. It looks like Bitcoin will be the flagship for at least a long while.

The problem I see with that is that they are selling them for $199 for a pack of 10 unloaded cards. So who is going to want to hand over a device worth $20 when they spend $100?

The price tag is just for a limited edition Pioneer Kit for people who want it now, while we're rolling out normal distribution channels around the world, which takes time. The Pioneer Kit also comes with additional features which makes it useful as a highly secure hardware wallet. For retailers the cost of a basic Tangem Note is designed to nicely fit within their margins.

what happens if I have this banknote (card) and by the time when I want to hand it over, the secure chip fails inside?

The chip and firmware inside every Tangem Note is designed to be secure not just against hacking, but against sporadic failures. The secure element should survive magnetic fields and pulses as well as cosmic rays better than most other electronics. It is rated for at least 40 years in operation, but is expected to last much longer than that. We apply extreme mechanical and RF testing, targeting CQM and other standards compliance.

In short, value stored on Tangem Notes should be orders of magnitude safer than that on exchanges, cloud wallets, hot wallets, cold wallets, or paper.

20  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Banknotes on: May 05, 2018, 08:25:56 AM
Does that mean that the notes don't have the Bitcoin address printed on them? If not why was it done that way?

Anything printed is trivial to counterfeit. When you validate a Tangem Note over NFC, there's a cryptographic challenge–response authentication which is impossible to fake. In a few milliseconds the app gets the public key and a proof that the private key is on the chip, as well as another digital signature that attests the manufacturing authenticity of the item.

Since we already rely on NFC and the secure chip to establish value and authenticity, adding too many physical cues could decrease overall security by making people rely on them in some situations.

If we apply Tangem technology to national cryptocurrencies, governments can limit redemption of the crypto banknotes they issue to accredited agents that guarantee physical destruction at redemption — then people can rely on physical properties for those banknotes.
Pages: [1] 2 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!