Bitcoin Banknotes

[TheQuin]

I understand that someone might feel that crypto will become more tangible with banknotes, but the truth is that cash is slowly disappearing from the society, why would crypto need to go the opposite direction? future is cashless

The cashless society is something being forced on us by big brother government so they can watch every cent you spend. That's why this is a perfect antidote to that, Bitcoin can be passed from person to person without even the need for a blockchain transaction, complete anonymity.

It is absolutely impossible. Not only because of hundreds of technical issues that would arise, but more because of the idea that such modern currency would use such outdated representation. It would be absolutely inefficient and uncontrollable. I would say that this currency should stay in the electronic state, at best - on cards or phone apps.

Read the thread. These are cards with an NFC chip in them. It is not impossible, these things exist.

[maemunah]

As the popularity and value of Bitcoin increases so do its adoption. Recently, about 4,000 new ATMs were introduced in Argentina. A drastic transformation in this sphere is being brought by Tangem that is trying to make the cash like transaction through cryptocurrencies a possibility for the users.

Tagem, a new smart banknote platform is launching the bitcoin banknotes in Singapore, which is known for its blockchain and crypto favorable regulatory measures. The notes will be on sale at the Megafash Suntec City store. The aim is to mass produce the physical notes of bitcoin in millions by the end of 2018.

Continue reading: https://coingape.com/bitcoin-banknotes-ready-to-replace-traditional-currency/

I think bitcoin does not require physical form in the form of paper, bitcoin is better now and even if bitcoin in the form of paper money it will trouble the use of bitcoin.

it's really what you say, it's better that bitcoin like this is easy to use a lot of people and bitcoin is better also to be as a asset that can make people a better life

[tokexchain]

Great idea but not really that feasible with the logistics and architecture to be put in place for acceptance (at an early stage of course if idea takes off). But seems ironic we are try to rid the world of physical cash in our communities - but yet adding plastic cards, be it all very clever they are too. Saying that, it is a good look upon the general uptake and adoption of Bitcoin, and maybe some of these cards will find their way into the hands of new people, who have only maybe heard about this magic internet money.. One question is, say if I have a 0.01 Bitcoin card gifted to me; I then go on to buy a coffee at the local coffee house, where does the change go?

[infofarmer]

Great idea but not really that feasible with the logistics and architecture to be put in place for acceptance (at an early stage of course if idea takes off). But seems ironic we are try to rid the world of physical cash in our communities - but yet adding plastic cards, be it all very clever they are too. Saying that, it is a good look upon the general uptake and adoption of Bitcoin, and maybe some of these cards will find their way into the hands of new people, who have only maybe heard about this magic internet money..

The rhetorical fallacy of «cashless society» is really very simple. You're not getting rid of cash, you're replacing it with a behemoth monolith of an infrastructure which is catastrophically centralized.

One question is, say if I have a 0.01 Bitcoin card gifted to me; I then go on to buy a coffee at the local coffee house, where does the change go?

We start in the ballpark of USD100 and USD500 bills because that's where the most demand is. They are not meant for coffee shops, but rather casual experimenting, savings, gifts, storage, transactions where fractions below 0.01 BTC do not really matter. They are meant to be spent physically, whole.

That said, a willing coffee shop will give you change in fiat. And we're working on another exciting solution to small payments.

[Cryptoreflector_666]

As the popularity and value of Bitcoin increases so do its adoption. Recently, about 4,000 new ATMs were introduced in Argentina. A drastic transformation in this sphere is being brought by Tangem that is trying to make the cash like transaction through cryptocurrencies a possibility for the users.

Tagem, a new smart banknote platform is launching the bitcoin banknotes in Singapore, which is known for its blockchain and crypto favorable regulatory measures. The notes will be on sale at the Megafash Suntec City store. The aim is to mass produce the physical notes of bitcoin in millions by the end of 2018.

Continue reading: https://coingape.com/bitcoin-banknotes-ready-to-replace-traditional-currency/

The creation of bitcoin banknotes is with the futuristic view that bitcoin could hit a million dollars in the coming years. At the same time its goal is to increase the bitcoin users all across the country even to areas without electricity, computer access and internet connection. This will be one of the reason why bitcoin will be increasing tremendously in value in the coming years but as long as its production is monitored and transparent then everything will go smooth.

  I do not see anything futuristic in this price growth of bitcoin. Many things that even 10 years ago were considered impossible are now used by people everywhere in everyday life. What to say if 30 years ago people did not even have thoughts about what the Internet is) If the process is relevant and progressive, sooner or later he will be come what is not.

[Cryptoreflector_666]

Great idea but not really that feasible with the logistics and architecture to be put in place for acceptance (at an early stage of course if idea takes off). But seems ironic we are try to rid the world of physical cash in our communities - but yet adding plastic cards, be it all very clever they are too. Saying that, it is a good look upon the general uptake and adoption of Bitcoin, and maybe some of these cards will find their way into the hands of new people, who have only maybe heard about this magic internet money..

The rhetorical fallacy of «cashless society» is really very simple. You're not getting rid of cash, you're replacing it with a behemoth monolith of an infrastructure which is catastrophically centralized.

One question is, say if I have a 0.01 Bitcoin card gifted to me; I then go on to buy a coffee at the local coffee house, where does the change go?

We start in the ballpark of USD100 and USD500 bills because that's where the most demand is. They are not meant for coffee shops, but rather casual experimenting, savings, gifts, storage, transactions where fractions below 0.01 BTC do not really matter. They are meant to be spent physically, whole.

That said, a willing coffee shop will give you change in fiat. And we're working on another exciting solution to small payments.

I heard about a similar project from Australian young startups. As far as I know it failed at the stage of collecting collection investment for ICO and there was not a coffee shop, but a hair salon or a beauty salon like. Nevertheless, the project is interesting. So it would be very interesting to know what project you are preparing)

[Nolivelasco13]

But seems ironic we are try to rid the world of physical cash in our communities - but yet adding plastic cards, be it all very clever they are too

[ThunderCatSteve]

Great idea but not really that feasible with the logistics and architecture to be put in place for acceptance (at an early stage of course if idea takes off). But seems ironic we are try to rid the world of physical cash in our communities - but yet adding plastic cards, be it all very clever they are too. Saying that, it is a good look upon the general uptake and adoption of Bitcoin, and maybe some of these cards will find their way into the hands of new people, who have only maybe heard about this magic internet money.. One question is, say if I have a 0.01 Bitcoin card gifted to me; I then go on to buy a coffee at the local coffee house, where does the change go?

The application that they use says that it will erase the whole banknote or just a part of it based on the amount of purchase, but I haven't seen if these banknotes can be refilled, if it is used only once then I think it will be useless and will be too costly for the company to produce every time new banknotes.

[TheQuin]

The application that they use says that it will erase the whole banknote or just a part of it based on the amount of purchase, but I haven't seen if these banknotes can be refilled, if it is used only once then I think it will be useless and will be too costly for the company to produce every time new banknotes.

From their faq: https://tangem.com/faq << Redirects to Google docs.
 

Can I reuse a Tangem Note after extraction?
A Tangem Note has a limited number of transactions permitted, with the basic version limited to just one. Unless clearly identified as «reusable» in the validation app, you will not be able to use it after extraction at this time.

Can I extract partial value from a Tangem Note?
A Tangem Note may restrict extraction to only the full face value. You can currently extract a smaller value.

Technically they can be reusable but the business plan seems to be to make them in mass production numbers large enough so that they are cheap enough to be use-once disposables.

[Dudeperfect]

I am confused that how banks notes are going to work in crypto, I mean if it is something like paper wallet then it would be almost impossible to identify that the security credentials like the private keys are already copied or not? Or is it going be like some card system that will allow us to withdraw/purchase Bitcoins using that card through ATM machine? Since the whole system is based on decentralization, everyone must get the latest transactions data as soon as transactions are taking place.

[Liternyy]

The development is a flat hardware purse, on which a limited number of bitcoins are stored. The figure depends on the nominal value indicated on the "banknote". The device also has a built-in Samsung S3D350A chip. According to the developers, Tangem's cold wallets are protected from both hardware and software attacks.

[Moonbrand]

As the popularity and value of Bitcoin increases so do its adoption. Recently, about 4,000 new ATMs were introduced in Argentina. A drastic transformation in this sphere is being brought by Tangem that is trying to make the cash like transaction through cryptocurrencies a possibility for the users.

Tagem, a new smart banknote platform is launching the bitcoin banknotes in Singapore, which is known for its blockchain and crypto favorable regulatory measures. The notes will be on sale at the Megafash Suntec City store. The aim is to mass produce the physical notes of bitcoin in millions by the end of 2018.

Continue reading: https://coingape.com/bitcoin-banknotes-ready-to-replace-traditional-currency/

I understand and support the Crypto-ATM's, however isn't the whole idea of Cryptocurrency to be paperless and completely electronic? Wouldn't Crypto banknotes defeat the purpose of that?

[TheQuin]

I understand and support the Crypto-ATM's, however isn't the whole idea of Cryptocurrency to be paperless and completely electronic? Wouldn't Crypto banknotes defeat the purpose of that?

No. You've misunderstood both what these 'notes' are and the purpose of Bitcoin.

If you haven't already I would suggest reading Satoshi's original white paper.

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin/#selection-49.4-49.211

What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party.

These 'notes' are actually hardware wallets using NFC. It is the trust element that is important. You're not trusting that a bank will honour the value of a fiat banknote, you're storing Bitcoin on a chip.

[luckchuck]

Feels a little bit counter-intuitive. I mean crypto should replace traditional money and printing them makes them more traditional. But I agree that would raise awareness among less tech people

[Moonbrand]

I understand and support the Crypto-ATM's, however isn't the whole idea of Cryptocurrency to be paperless and completely electronic? Wouldn't Crypto banknotes defeat the purpose of that?

No. You've misunderstood both what these 'notes' are and the purpose of Bitcoin.

If you haven't already I would suggest reading Satoshi's original white paper.

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin/#selection-49.4-49.211

What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party.

These 'notes' are actually hardware wallets using NFC. It is the trust element that is important. You're not trusting that a bank will honour the value of a fiat banknote, you're storing Bitcoin on a chip.

Thank you for that information and the link. I will definitely go and have a look at this and see where I've misunderstood.

[Moonbrand]

I understand and support the Crypto-ATM's, however isn't the whole idea of Cryptocurrency to be paperless and completely electronic? Wouldn't Crypto banknotes defeat the purpose of that?

No. You've misunderstood both what these 'notes' are and the purpose of Bitcoin.

If you haven't already I would suggest reading Satoshi's original white paper.

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin/#selection-49.4-49.211

After reading the whitepaper from the link that you've provided and reading the original article that the tread was based on, this is what I've come up with:

The purpose of Bitcoin was to eliminate the need for a third party which would entail a certain level of trust.

"What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party." - According to the link you've provided.

Also, with banknotes, there is the possibility of fraud, due to the transaction not going through the Blockchain, as Satoshi originally intended.

"...there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-reversible services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads." - Also from the link you've provided.

From what the original article, from Coingape, states: https://coingape.com/bitcoin-banknotes-ready-to-replace-traditional-currency/
"The notes will be on sale at the Megafash Suntec City store. The aim is to mass produce the physical notes of bitcoin in millions by the end of 2018."
it will go directly against the original whitepaper, where the electronic method of transactions was essentially vetted by the Blockchain in order to eliminate fraud.

Perhaps we have both misunderstood, but this is what my understanding is after having read through both the article as well as the whitepaper.

[TheQuin]

Perhaps we have both misunderstood, but this is what my understanding is after having read through both the article as well as the whitepaper.

The use of the word 'notes' is what is causing your misunderstanding. Replace 'notes' with 'cheap disposable hardware wallets' and it might make more sense. There's still a blockchain transaction needed to fund the device and another one needed to spend from the device. You wouldn't want to hand over your Ledger Nano S to someone else to spend the coin stored on it because it is too expensive but that is the same principle. These are just cheap enough to pass around if you want. Or if you want to think of it in the same way as the physical Bitcoins although they have really become collectables rather than useful to spend.

[Moonbrand]

Perhaps we have both misunderstood, but this is what my understanding is after having read through both the article as well as the whitepaper.

The use of the word 'notes' is what is causing your misunderstanding. Replace 'notes' with 'cheap disposable hardware wallets' and it might make more sense. There's still a blockchain transaction needed to fund the device and another one needed to spend from the device. You wouldn't want to hand over your Ledger Nano S to someone else to spend the coin stored on it because it is too expensive but that is the same principle. These are just cheap enough to pass around if you want. Or if you want to think of it in the same way as the physical Bitcoins although they have really become collectables rather than useful to spend.

Ok. I understand now.

With that understanding though, I refer back to my point of fraud. What, then would stop someone from selling the wallet to 3 different people where only one will be able to use it?

[TheQuin]

Ok. I understand now.

With that understanding though, I refer back to my point of fraud. What, then would stop someone from selling the wallet to 3 different people where only one will be able to use it?

I would suggest reading through this thread. There's a lot of information from one of the co-owners of the company that makes them.

In short, there is only one physical wallet so how could you physically give it to 3 people?

The hardware wallet is contained in an NFC chip on the card that is encrypted. The balance can be verified using an NFC enabled smartphone. That's why you don't need trust, you can verify the card you have been given is funded.

[Moonbrand]

Ok. I understand now.

With that understanding though, I refer back to my point of fraud. What, then would stop someone from selling the wallet to 3 different people where only one will be able to use it?

I would suggest reading through this thread. There's a lot of information from one of the co-owners of the company that makes them.

In short, there is only one physical wallet so how could you physically give it to 3 people?

The hardware wallet is contained in an NFC chip on the card that is encrypted. The balance can be verified using an NFC enabled smartphone. That's why you don't need trust, you can verify the card you have been given is funded.

I'm not saying that the system and technology used is inherently flawed, and I understand the use of the NFC chips, however, taking into account human nature, wouldn't the hardware wallet open up potential avenues for fraud where the fraudulent 'card' or hardware wallet looks legitimate at face-value, and people only realize that they've been defrauded when they go and try to initialize the wallet and it does not work?