 Show Posts
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 »
|
...you can trade with just data so what happened with my over 250,000 sims I bought its showing I bought it...
Let's first see if blockchain.info will compensate this, as they should, because, as I understand, this is their bug. Have you seen this? https://twitter.com/blockchain/status/542106998150799360"We admit we are at fault. We will be working w/affected users to reimburse those whose funds were misplaced." |
|
|
|
I've been meaning to ask about this. Presumably messages are delivered on the next block, so 1-2 minutes on average? When instant transactions come in, will messaging be instant? Great use case for NXT, anyway. I think they said that they don't use the blockchain to send the messages. Even if they did, messages can be delivered in a few seconds, because there is no reason to wait for confirmations. When receiving coins you have to watch out for double spends. There is no such concern when receiving a message. An exception could be when your counterparty makes a promise or something like that in his message, and you want to be sure that it is recorded on the blockchain before you proceed. |
|
|
|
I like the private asset exchange,i also proposed it in the main thread some days ago.
It would only need the possibility to issue an asset with a keypass,and the issuer would give the keypass to whoever he wants.It would be great for internal things in enterprises,or private groups,or things like for example a company issuing ticket-restaurants in a certain zone.
My prediction is that we will see many different kinds of marketplaces on top of the Nxt blockchain, with different features and rules. The Nxt network seems to be efficient enough to handle a large number of signalling transactions in addition to the normal spending transactions. |
|
|
|
Outstanding. Looking forward to having a play with this.
Could be used to buy/sell crypto currencies by storing the address and private key and releasing them to a buyer? Or do I misunderstand?
I think so, yes. There is a danger that the seller would spend the coins at the same time as he sells them. But I think I read on the other thread that somebody is working for atomic cross-chain transactions, which would solve this issue, but I don't know a lot about that. Good to see this discussion continued here, hard to follow in the massive Nxt thread. I still like the idea of magnet links listed in the client, click and the marketplace GUI is loaded into the client. There was a BTT member (Fry) that was interested in developing. Would love to get more brainstorming here, this could be a great thing to have. I'm creating a command-line version as a proof of concept. I'll probably offer a bounty for a GUI version. |
|
|
|
|
The marketplace creator could act as an administrator, who has the power to ban scammers.
When the marketplace is created, the following message is sent:
market_info/description/seller_fee/buyer_fee
Fees are one-time payments to the administrator to be able to participate in the marketplace. They can also be zero if the administrator so decides.
Administrator sends the following message to ban a user:
ban_account/account_number
Anyone not satistfied with the policies of the administrator can easily create their own marketplace.
|
|
|
|
The thing is if Nxt can work as a totally decentralized exchange,people will use it for these things.As long as it doesnt become a pedophile platform, or used to trade arms... But if it has the potential to do it,someone will just do it.
I didn't mean that. I'll rephrase: I'm not interested in policing what kinds of products people buy. But the public asset exchange is not as such a convenient forum for SR type business. It doesn't support mail-delivery type trades out of the box, and it is public. I have suggested adding password-protection and encryption on the AM based markets proposed originally by BCNext. |
|
|
|
Will the NXT be ready for that? Anon136 said an that this could be solved with the Arbitrary Message feature.
Needless to say if this is working there mustn’t be a lot of marketing and new investors / vendors / customers would naturally come naturally into NXT. Result would be full order books and a price explosion. So if you want NXT to be worth 1 USD within this year, this could be a major step.
Having SR type products on the public asset exchange might result in unwanted attention. I have proposed a way to create private password-protected marketplaces on top of the Nxt blockchain: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317607.msg5699472#msg5699472 |
|
|
|
|
The message format would need to be defined, so I'll just make something up. This is the private marketplace version, where the market is visible to those who know the marketplace password.
There can be a FileMarket (selling of files with arbitrary content) and MailOrder (seller sends the product in the mail). I'll begin with the FileMarket because it is easier.
Each message contains a prefix, which is the first 4 bytes of the SHA-256 hash of the marketplace password. Message content is encrypted with AES-256 using the marketplace password, except for the accept message, which should be readable only by the buyer.
Seller declares he sells something by sending himself a message:
sell/product name/description/price/keyword1(optional)/keyword2(optional)/keyword3(optional)/image link (optional, image is encrypted with marketplace password)
Setting keywords allows buyers to find products by searching.
Buyer sends the seller a message to buy:
buy/product name
Seller sends the decryption key for the file to the buyer:
accept/product name/download link/key
If for some reason seller can't complete the transaction:
reject/product name
User sends feedback to the seller:
feedback/product name/score/text
Seller feedback and available products be will be visible on the blockchain to those who know the marketplace password.
EDIT:
Seller sends himself a message to provide general information to the buyers:
seller_info/text/allow other sellers (yes/no)
The first seller can prohibit other sellers from joining the marketplace.
|
|
|
|
|
Here are some more thoughts. I'm thinking about private marketplaces on top of the Nxt blockchain. Products are visible only to the users of the marketplace, not to everyone viewing the blockchain.
EDIT: I deleted the previous idea. This is a simplified version. Marketplace name = password.
On the startup screen of the NxtPrivateMarketplace software the user enters the marketplace name, which also acts as a password.
This is less secure than having the program generate the password, but the result of the marketplace name getting found out by outsiders is not as catastrophic as somebody hacking your brainwallet.
|
|
|
|
|
My vision could be called NxtPrivateMarket, as opposed to the Nxt asset exchange, where product names are public, and which has a listing fee.
The private market would be implemented by program, which responds to messages coming to its Nxt address. The buyer sends a message and coins to that address to complete the transaction. The buyer side doesn't necessarily need a specialized program, any Nxt client will do if it can send encrypted messages. (I don't know if the Nxt clients already support that.) Perhaps a more user-friendly buyer-side program would be needed to get users.
If nobody is willing to implement this for a bounty, I can try to do a proof of concept of this myself.
|
|
|
|
I didn't understand what buyer/seller verified means.
What I mean is that when you are leaving feedback via AM, you will be required to enter a Tx id, where the sender (buyer's) account must match your account # and the receiving account must match the account where you are sending the feedback AM (the sellers account). If those match up, the feedback is sent via AM. I'm wondering if escrow/reputation is the best model for the SR type use case, and if there could be an alternative model.
Would the names of products and quantities sold be publicly available on the blockchain? Somehow I think this will draw unwanted attention.
Nothing would show up on the blockchain except the amounts of Nxt and the public feedback, all other messages would be encrypted. How would disputes be resolved? Outsiders can't know if the seller has sent the product. Either the seller or buyer can try to scam.
With Escrow AT, you would send your Nxt to seller via AT, at which point the Nxt is committed and you have two choices, release the funds to the seller or release the funds to the genesis block or charity (whereas neither party would benefit). You wouldn't have the choice to get them back and the seller wouldn't have incentive to scam you since the funds would go elsewhere if you don't get your product. Seller can sell to himself and give good feedback.
Yes, but they would have to go through the trouble of sending Nxt, leaving feedback, and it would all be traceable, and there would be no purpose with Escrow AT. So this is a burn escrow, which doesn't need outsiders to resolve disputes. And it doesn't use the asset exchange, because sales are not public. I didn't understand how the buyer finds the sellers and the products to be sold. That is what we need to work on, a decentralized market. Personally I would prefer a torrent style file that downloads a marketplace to your client where it would be viewable. The marketplace could be hosted on several seeding/forging machines. My vision for a decentralized anonymous marketplace has the following features, in order of importance. 1. Security 2. Anonymity (3. Fraud-prevention) The market would be hosted nowhere, each seller would host his own market on his own computer. No centralized weak point. Outsiders don't know what is being sold. Even the buyers don't have a clear picture of all available products and amounts being sold. Each seller would only know his own sales. Security would come from the p2p nature of the Nxt network, encryption of all messages, and optionally the users could use Tor. Coins can be mixed by the users using the existing mixers for Bitcoin or Nxt, not directly by the anonymous market software. Fraud-prevention can be done with non-technical means such as forum discussions and word-of-mouth reputation. |
|
|
|
I didn't understand what buyer/seller verified means.
What I mean is that when you are leaving feedback via AM, you will be required to enter a Tx id, where the sender (buyer's) account must match your account # and the receiving account must match the account where you are sending the feedback AM (the sellers account). If those match up, the feedback is sent via AM. I'm wondering if escrow/reputation is the best model for the SR type use case, and if there could be an alternative model.
Would the names of products and quantities sold be publicly available on the blockchain? Somehow I think this will draw unwanted attention.
Nothing would show up on the blockchain except the amounts of Nxt and the public feedback, all other messages would be encrypted. How would disputes be resolved? Outsiders can't know if the seller has sent the product. Either the seller or buyer can try to scam.
With Escrow AT, you would send your Nxt to seller via AT, at which point the Nxt is committed and you have two choices, release the funds to the seller or release the funds to the genesis block or charity (whereas neither party would benefit). You wouldn't have the choice to get them back and the seller wouldn't have incentive to scam you since the funds would go elsewhere if you don't get your product. Seller can sell to himself and give good feedback.
Yes, but they would have to go through the trouble of sending Nxt, leaving feedback, and it would all be traceable, and there would be no purpose with Escrow AT. So this is a burn escrow, which doesn't need outsiders to resolve disputes. And it doesn't use the asset exchange, because sales are not public. I didn't understand how the buyer finds the sellers and the products to be sold. |
|
|
|
We don't necessarily need to duplicate the SR model, we just have to find something that is equally useful. I would try a simpler design, where the buyer contacts the seller directly using encrypted messages. Information about reputable sellers is already discussed on the forums, so there is no need to publically announce who sells what.
1. Buyer sends message to query available products. Seller responds.
2. Buyer sends coins, name of product and physical address
3. Seller responds with order rejected or accepted.
I agree that having secure ways of mixing coins is not necessary, because there are already mixers for Bitcoin.
The question of having a reputation system and escrow is more tricky. I'm not sure that having a traditional feedback and escrow system is the best solution. Discussions on the forums already work as a kind of a reputation system.
Having a user-friedly client for this would be important.
EDIT: The seller-side software would run continuously on the seller's computer, keep track of the inventory and automatically respond to the buyers' queries.
If we have escrow AT (which has been discussed and is very possible) and a reputation system based on Tx id, with buyer/seller verified, (which will be added soon to clients) it will be close to possible. I suggest decentralized marketplaces that are distributed with torrent like files downloaded to clients and then viewable via GUI. I didn't understand what buyer/seller verified means. I'm wondering if escrow/reputation is the best model for the SR type use case, and if there could be an alternative model. Would the names of products and quantities sold be publicly available on the blockchain? Somehow I think this will draw unwanted attention. How would disputes be resolved? Outsiders can't know if the seller has sent the product. Either the seller or buyer can try to scam. Seller can sell to himself and give good feedback. Here's yet another idea: part of the payment before getting the product and part after. For new buyers for example 80% / 20%, for older customers 50% / 50%. The seller could set the algorithm. Even the prices could be lower for repeat customers. The software could automatically send each buyer an individualized offer. |
|
|
|
Find a solution for SR users and you will see Nxt gain 10x value.
Isn't this NXTcash ?;P There are mixing services for BTC, what I'm referring to is a complete transaction solution all within a Nxt client. No need to access Tor, login to site, have funds in escrow, etc.. This would be accomplished with a decentralized market accessed via Nxt client, funds placed into escrow via AT, funds released, feedback left via AM reputation system, and so on, all done within client. The only reason to target SR users is that they are the only mass marketplace audience familiar with crypto and ready for a solution. We don't necessarily need to duplicate the SR model, we just have to find something that is equally useful. I would try a simpler design, where the buyer contacts the seller directly using encrypted messages. Information about reputable sellers is already discussed on the forums, so there is no need to publically announce who sells what. 1. Buyer sends message to query available products. Seller responds. 2. Buyer sends coins, name of product and physical address 3. Seller responds with order rejected or accepted. I agree that having secure ways of mixing coins is not necessary, because there are already mixers for Bitcoin. The question of having a reputation system and escrow is more tricky. I'm not sure that having a traditional feedback and escrow system is the best solution. Discussions on the forums already work as a kind of a reputation system. Having a user-friedly client for this would be important. EDIT: The seller-side software would run continuously on the seller's computer, keep track of the inventory and automatically respond to the buyers' queries. |
|
|
|
yes, but we need to find a very useful/needed use case for average people to use AE. And it must be a very specific use case, not only some theoretical examples. The average people doesn't care that it could sell its stocks using AE if it would be a company.
We should also think about sales of things with very low prices. For example there must be a lot of amateur musicians, programmers and writers who have no easy way to monetize their work. We could provide them with a way to sell digital content for NXT. This could also work outside the asset exchange as proposed by BCNext. I wrote about this in my previous post. |
|
|
|
Outstanding. Looking forward to having a play with this.
Could be used to buy/sell crypto currencies by storing the address and private key and releasing them to a buyer? Or do I misunderstand?
I think so, yes. There is a danger that the seller would spend the coins at the same time as he sells them. But I think I read on the other thread that somebody is working for atomic cross-chain transactions, which would solve this issue, but I don't know a lot about that. |
|
|
|
Has somebody thought about the Decentralized App Store written by BCNext: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317607.0 ? Or could we have decentralized buying and selling of files (with any content)? How about this: 1. Seller generates a random key and encrypts the file to be sold. 2. Seller stores the file somewhere on the net, and announces what he is selling (either on the blockchain or outside the blockchain). 3. Buyer sends NXT to seller. 4. Seller sends a message to the buyer with a download link and the key generated in step one. 5. Buyer downloads the file and decrypts it. Would somebody like to work on this for a bounty? Well, good to have people remembering all the ideas. Could you create a thread for that and tell Damelon to include it to its NXT threads website? I'll use the original thread by BCNext. I was also thinking about the typical use cases for buying/selling stuff with NXT. The asset exchange as it is now implemented on the test network covers some of them, but not all. Here are some use cases: 1. Selling an item that has a limited supply and that can be re-sold, for example stock for a company. This is what is implemented currently on the asset exchange on the test network. Seller wants to pay a listing fee and to spam the global namespace in the asset exchange. 2. Sale of digital goods. There is an unlimited supply. Items are not re-sold. Prices are typically low. Seller doesn't want to pay the listing fee on the asset exchange. This is what the previous message talked about. This would need a standardized message format, user interface and a place to store the files outside of the blockchain. 3. Mail-order. Seller sends stuff in the mail. Items are not re-sold. This would need a standardized message format, and a user interface. In 2 and 3 there is also the question of whether the seller wants to declare the items to be sold on the blockchain. If he has a big list of items and low prices he can publish this information on a website to cut down the costs. If there is more discussion I'll continue on the other thread. |
|
|
|
Has somebody thought about the Decentralized App Store written by BCNext: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317607.0 ? Or could we have decentralized buying and selling of files (with any content)? How about this: 1. Seller generates a random key and encrypts the file to be sold. 2. Seller stores the file somewhere on the net, and announces what he is selling (either on the blockchain or outside the blockchain). 3. Buyer sends NXT to seller. 4. Seller sends a message to the buyer with a download link and the key generated in step one. 5. Buyer downloads the file and decrypts it. Would somebody like to work on this for a bounty? |
|
|
|
|
