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Theres zero likelihood of a goldbug or just any user of gold needing to give up on a failed market especially. Its perfectly inert and able to sustain its price vs a failing global reserve system based off politics. The most obvious long term argument for gold usage likely to rise over decades is net central bank buying. If the market itself does not reflect a reasonable popular price then still central banks continue to exchange gold as a reserve asset in settling debts between countries of especially large amounts. If that trend is rising that banks increase their holdings and its been true for a decade then in time the price for gold is not especially due to contract.
Bitcoin on the other hand I think best suits the smallest amounts transferred and perhaps the most often. It must be ready for that purpose to be useful and then value can be built upon that usage and higher speculative activity is justified. But the base case for BTC imo in enabling business that might otherwise not occur, this is no insult to refer to the smallest amounts as the greatest growth rates come from the smallest entities and as we all know most of the world is not rich.
If crypto can enable the poorest to greater confidence and efficiency in value transfer it would be such a positive event for all involved, thats a market with many billion people. Where as the simple base case for gold I mentioned is just between merely dozens who barter in many billions of worth, a much more restricted and staid market.
Great ideas. Bitcoin certainly serves as a more useful form of moving money from one point to the other. It has been used more so by those who don't want to attract attention by moving that money, which is what determines its value. That and its ability to subvert the middleman. Gold is only able to do this in the smallest amounts. It can more readily serve as a sign of wealth, and it gives people comfort to have a physical sign of that wealth. Both serve as good hedges against incompetent governments and political risks, but neither yield interest so are avoided by institutional investors. Because of Bitcoin's accessibility, it is clearly the more useful one in the long term. |
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I'm not so sure that's what would get their attention. Certainly, you have a valid point and I'm not going to say that it's wrong. But goldbugs see things a bit differently than just market cap and price per ounce.
They're stuck in the doom loop of fiat crashing, futures being erased, and the world reverting to a barter system. This sounds all fine and dandy but what really would cause something like this to happen? There's too much institutional money in fiat for it to just dump and destroy itself. They would never let it happen. They've got too many tricks up their sleeves.
And besides, if it were the apocalypse and you had a farm full of goats, would you really want to trade them for gold?
Where you have bitcoin users believe that bitcoin will become the next reserve currency, replace banks, crash the financial system and replace fiat. You also have the HODLers that also like to think you buy a bitcoin, sit on it for a few months and wake up one morning a millionaire also buying bitcoin qualifies you as an investment and financial guru instantly giving you qualifications to advise all newbies to sell the house, car, boat and family and go all in no matter what the price. Yeah sure, and I'm not going to defend that way of thinking either because we both know it's completely unrealistic. But you completely avoided my position by pointing the blame on the other side. If you had a farm full of goats, would you really think to trade them for some pieces of gold? This here is a very good point. Russia is actually quite sustainable because of their land and gold. USA, on the other hand, is entirely dependent on other nations buying its debt. What if they don't want to? Or if they can't? Innovations like crypto can't save them from a crisis, but they can be a way out after hitting the bottom. |
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I was wondering, what does it take for a hardcore goldbug like Peter Schiff, or our very own r0ach, to admit that they fucked up big time holding gold instead of Bitcoin?
Currently gold is around 7 $trillion marketcap, I haven't paid attention to gold to get the exact value but last year it was around that. Bitcoin is around 100 $billion as of today.
At what point will some traditional goldbugs publicly accept that they should have at least, diversified some of their gold into Bitcoin? I have added a poll with 5 options, the most conservative one is when BTC reaches 1 $trillion, because I don't expect any of them to admit they were wrong any time sooner than that.
The poll never expires.
I'm not so sure that's what would get their attention. Certainly, you have a valid point and I'm not going to say that it's wrong. But goldbugs see things a bit differently than just market cap and price per ounce. They're stuck in the doom loop of fiat crashing, futures being erased, and the world reverting to a barter system. This sounds all fine and dandy but what really would cause something like this to happen? There's too much institutional money in fiat for it to just dump and destroy itself. They would never let it happen. They've got too many tricks up their sleeves. And besides, if it were the apocalypse and you had a farm full of goats, would you really want to trade them for gold? |
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You can say what you like but markets go down when there is no confidence!
If it crashes big time the media will make cryptos look worse than they already have!
But
Things are changing and I believe the Bulls will take Bitcoin to 7K plus and restore confidence!
Bitcoin Forever!
We are making that statement racing on the things we see and as far we are seeing only bad things happening and only red colours on the wallets of our, - $1,000 for me for the last few weeks. Losses are not losses until you actually cash them out, so don't worry if you truly believe in the value of Bitcoin. If your investment is worth holding onto, you can wait a bit longer and not worry much about a thousand dollars. That's just a short term dip. But don't have ungrounded expectations for excessive heights. Bitcoin went through a major peak last year, how can it do it again this year? There's not enough strength behind it to make it rally again like that. Too many uncertainties about transactions, adoption, consumer investments, etc. It's on wait and see right now. |
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Because of the long confirmation time and transaction fee of BTC I doubt if it will gain that adoption of using it as payment, BTC itself is rather a store of value and other alts that complement BTC can be used for payment.
Indeed, in past few weeks many bitcoin user complaining about long confirmation transaction. Its take more than 7 hours my transaction complete. I am believe bitcoin will be store of value and long term investment rather than currency. I am more comfort using bitcoin if bitcoin regulated by government The delayed transactions of using bitcoin Is one of the major problem and I believed the development team of bitcoin already worked for It to fix as much as possible. To make those costumer well satisfied to use bitcoin for online transaction in blockchain. Until this is fixed properly, people won't be interested in using bitcoin for daily transactions or other needs. They'll only see it as a hedge against inflation and useless currencies, not as a currency. Unless, of course, fiat crashes and becomes useless overnight. This can't happen because there's too much vested interest in fiat so it will continue to hold value. Bitcoin is a direct competitor with the most valuable system of exchange. Governments will be issuing e-currencies much further in advance to bitcoin being widely used as a payment system. |
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What you think about this topic, I wonder what would be most profitable to start selling for bitcoins, and I found out that I have no idea what is happening on the online markets. https://news.bitcoin.com/top-5-products-openbazaar/OpenBazzar have a list about top 5 things that people are buying with bitcoins. 1. Food 2. Cigarettes 3. Seeds 4. Comic Books 5. Clothing & Accessories What is your opinion about this? These goods looks a good package. Clothing and accessories even seems like the most sort after of the products you listed. Why not make it a whole big package? Convincingly, there is nothing Physical cash can do that Bitcoin cannot in this present age. This means you can trade anything for Bitcoins too, as far as you've attached a reasonable Bitcoin value to it. Take a look at these stuffs 1. Wrist watches (Branded ones like Rolex) 2. Electronic gadgets (TV, Sound systems etc) 3. Laptops, Android phones and iPhones (probably all Apple products) 4. Cosmetics 5. Quality Shoes too In this world of glamour and luxury, all you need do is to grow your market base by increasing popularity amidst Crypto-Users. Be popular for receiving Crypto-coins for items purchase. Also, make some research to know the most popular Crypto per region/location. Do not generalize the acceptance of Bitcoin only, diversify. Receive ETH along side. Moreover, We have online market platforms like Alibaba-express, Shopify, Magento, Yokart and so on. Look into their market strategy and apply them. In few years time you stand to be one of the leading online marketer accepting Crypto-coins as far as you keep expanding and increasing the number of your products exponentially. I would go for electronic gadgets first of all because they are more valuable and needed. People also might want to buy them anonymously more than other things like clothes or accessories, although those too have a market. I don't think it would be easy to start selling these things strictly for crypto. I think that a lot of people who hold crypto are holding it just to wait for it to gain in value before they cash it out and then buy these things for fiat. Unless of course you can offer something that buying with fiat can't, like anonymity or better prices. |
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This is turning into a rich man's game as the prices to enter the ring are becoming affordable only by elite groups. For better or worse though?
Of course, it shouldn't be a "pay to play" model because that's the very corrupt system that crypto set out to eliminate. That's how banks preserve their dominance over society and the people.
But what if it helps to weed out scam ICO's and pyramid schemes? The pump & dumps that center around hype and marketing and then just disappear off the grid once the guys collect enough money. Because shit like that really gives crypto a bad name.
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Honestly, BTC is hard to be used comfortably because now it is easily volatile and not stable. Its price is fluctuating all of time. Furthermore, it still has more the speculation. But if BTC can fix all of its shortcoming, it would be regulated and popular in any transaction in the world. Since btc has more advantages by its technology. At that moment, people would feel comfortable using BTC as a real currency.
If you buy it at low levels, you won't care as much about the fluctuations. If you want to use it for small purchases as the OP said (which I think is extremely impractical) then you wouldn't really care much about those small differences in price. Bitcoin is much better used as a store of wealth to contain money rather than as something to buy lunch with. It's more useful to have large transactions and use the money you take from bitcoin to buy something useful or invest in something else, like mining mentioned above. Interestingly most people either spend less than 10% or most. But there are only 14 votes. Instead of spamming with nonsense ideas, people should contribute to the OP's study and vote. |
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What is that supposed to mean? That projects need more advertising to succeed? That's one way of seeing it. On the other hand there's so many bad projects that are advertised aggressively that I'm scared to think how much spam we'll be going through on a daily basis when every single project takes takes advertising up a notch. We don't need more ads, we need better projects, and less of them. Also, saying that community has to engage is like saying, "you want profits, work for them and promote the projects for us".
More is not necessarily better in terms of marketing. Advertising is shit nowadays because most people think that they just need to spam their names in every direction and have a brand presence like Coca Cola, when in reality most consumers just ignore these adverts. What makes a difference is true and authentic communication with those who want to participate in your concept. Stop thinking in terms of money and sales and start thinking in terms of people coming together as a community and growing something incredible together. That's what makes anything worth investing in. |
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Bitcoins price prediction is not consistent since a lot of things go into it before one can arrive at a good predicting rate. My price prediction of bitcoin trading at 18,000 by the end of the year is still yet to be fulfilled.
I do agree that price predictions is not really consistent because the market price is based on supply and demand so there will be no accurate prediction in the first place and what you really need is patience to wait for the market price to grow. Even crypto expert never point out what exactly happened next, even they say it pumps in the couples of days from now but there is no guarantee of having that trend at all. It is better not to totally depend on predictions, instead we must have to observe it with our own. That's because no one, not even the experts who've been here since the beginning, can possibly know what will happen next. Think about bitcoin for a minute. It's decentralized, anonymous, and unconventional. How can we even think that we can predict it? It had a few major moon shots in the past. Did anyone expect those? Certainly not. Do those moon shots mean that we'll have another one this year? No one knows! |
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That trend up and down creating loop was just similar to last one , idont say it is finished but obvious it was too similar. This loop is smaller then previous one, i was expecting it to long more but thats ok. because it didint end it can go below previous year record. Tops are below previous and bottoms are below previous and main trend is down so i expect 4-5k as a new bottom record.it will turn from that bottom and rise a little but dont think so to pass above 8k, it may reach 7k and come back.Also expecting less volatilty for the rest of this year.
I think we've found the bottom, for now at least. It shouldn't be going much lower than 6000 by the way it's behaving around those levels now. It will need a better reason to drop down further because it's not moving very fast anymore. The support around the 6000 level could help it to find a direction for upwards movement. There's no more reason for ETF news to smash it around at this time, and hopefully we can get some positive momentum upwards. I think that the pattern from last rise might be similar but it can't follow it exactly |
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government that prohibits bitcoin in some countries. If the government can accept the existence of bitcoin there are some important points in it:
* can pay off the "debt" of the country
* Improve the economy of the people
* Decrease in poverty level
I want to know what you think.
I disagree. bitcoin is a currency, you can think of it as a tool too. and it is not a magic tool to make money for anyone who has ever gotten involved with it. so it can not decrease poverty, it can not improve economy of a country and can not do a lot of other things. in fact bitcoin may have increase the poverty! there have been a lot of newbies who started investing in bitcoin in the past couple of months and many of them bought on highs and sold after a dip which led to losing a lot of money, then bitcoin went up they bought back too late and panic sold in the correction/dip and lost a lot more money. this has nothing to do with banning or not banning bitcoin though! Yes. Bitcoin is just one more medium of exchange. It has no magic solution for people or countries to make everything running fine again. The complexity of our current financial system makes it so that there will never be a specific solution for everything. When one thing gets better, another drops. If governments were to start using bitcoin, they'd probably try to borrow heavily on it like everything else they do. It's not about the tool, it's about the user. That's why, like airdagon said, bitcoin may have actually contributed to making people poorer. If a powerful tool is mishandled, it gets turned against you. |
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I don't call such markets, unhealthy.
The way BTC is maintaining its support near $6k, this shows that the market is strong at these points and there is organic volume and hodlers to support such price range. We have volume. To grow, we definitely need more volume and investors and market is still figuring that out. There is nothing wrong in market having a slower growth.
Yeah this is true. It's been behaving organically, especially if you compare it to highly manipulated assets like oil, gold or the swiss franc. Now those are manipulated! Bitcoin tends to respect support and resistance levels more than other assets do. And it follows fibonnanci patterns quite accurately. This is what traders call a "virgin" market, meaning unspoiled by algos and institutional funds. Which is why I think futures and ETFs are bad ideas. Keep their dirty hands out of here. |
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let people know about us and to prove that our intentions are sincere.
Hate to say it, but the more you try to prove those intentions are sincere, the more people are going to be skeptical of your claims--especially here, where it seems like every other ICO is a scam with fake profiles and nonpayment of bounty hunters. More important IMO would be showing why your project is worth investing in in the first place, i.e., that it's useful and worth investing in. I've no doubt you'll get a lot of speculators interested in it, but they'll flee and sell everything off as soon as whatever you're selling goes to market. Whatever you do, marketing is something you'll have to spend money on. There's no way you'll get interest unless you advertise, and that means paying people to do it. I don't know of any project thus far that hasn't had some sort of campaign involved. Yeah, it's like telling someone that you're intelligent and humble. You shouldn't have to state the obvious. It seems like his intentions are pretty clear though the way he approached the topic. Just avoid the "hard sell" because nothing pisses people off more when they just come to read and learn to have someone shoving products in their faces. People around here are more interested in having a discussion about constructive things and understanding different aspects of crypto. Marketing is inevitable, but you can learn it yourself. Check out the book "Traction" for a step by step overview of what's involved. |
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Both are good investments, but I just want to emphasize that education is something that is so valuable to everyone and no amount of money can compare to that, it is not just your ticket to get a job but it is something that your life will depend on, your goals, your dreams, also the honor and pride it can give your parents. I am not saying that it is the only way for people to learn, there are still a lot of things about life that you need to learn outside school but then at least you already have the foundation.
Exactly. And in these days of glory-seeking, a lot of education is just for honor and virtue rather than the information itself. If you look close enough at these "gentlemen clubs" like Harvard, Oxford, Yale, etc. you can see that they mostly are a circle of self-serving narcissists who think that they have superior knowledge and therefore are living in a bubble. What really gets me is how they have been blaming "populism" for everything lately (especially at Davos World Economic Forum) as if the people are their own enemies and don't know how to take care of themselves. Education is key, but education for self. Not education for certificates, for recognition, for glory, or for mom. Education to improve one's own abilities. |
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Just because asians are getting into the bitcoin doesn't mean all of the rush came from them. Do not forget that bitcoin is a volatile currency which means that if koreans and japan wanted to get more bitcoins and the rush came from them, it also means that a lot more people followed them and bought as well, no one can handle that much increase all by themselves when others are trying to sell, which means whole world wanted to buy WITH them. However, he is right that the prices are a lot closer to each other on the markets, I do remember the times when markets had so much arbitrage differences. It had happened in the past for sure but, from those occasions market had bounced into new high too. Those things are not the right indicators to predict the bull-run and its end. Exactly the point. The market cap is quite high and it takes a lot of money to send it in one direction or the other. But once a catalyst hits, the rest of the world doesn't wait long to get on. If you look real closely at the chart you can see interesting movements in the 5min candles, where one long one sets off an avalanche. The good thing about closer prices is that it's a sign of regulation (by the people, not the governments). The exchanges that quote spreads as high as the moon are being weeded out as people turn to more reliable and trustworthy sources for their trading needs. |
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If (when) usd falls.
People will look for things to invest their money in to prevent their wealth from losing value as the dollar falls.
Many will buy gold, silver, jewels. Some will buy color tv's, electronics since they're not bad at holding value.
Others will buy bitcoin. It could increase demand for crypto which in turn would case the value and price of bitcoin to increase.
Just like what has happened in Russia time and time again as their currency gets crushed by economic wars. When people see the value in their hands slipping away like sand, they run to turn it into something more solid. And a lot of people don't see bitcoin as solid right now, unfortunately. However, it is being used more often as a protection against devaluation, like mentioned above in India, China, and other Asian countries. I'm not sure how the world would look at it if the USD loses value and reputation as a safe alternative to spiraling local currencies. They'll probably take it when the local shops run out of gold. |
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Yeah that's a good point. We need to have a firm foundation to stand on before trying to reach for the clouds.
The knowledge that we gain is enough to give us the confidence in our decision making when choosing a coin to invest in. I would say that it is quite difficult to know, so the more you read, the better you will feel about your investment. But I would give a word of warning about overconfidence in investing, because that often leads to failure. Confidence and caution go hand in hand.
This is why it's important to share helpful information on this forum and read others' posts.
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I feel like these news are there to only mislead people and keep them away from investing in BTC. Even when BTC rose up to 20,000$ people were making negative remarks and posting articles on how BTC has been hyped. I don't thinks articles like these will leave much impact on the recent growth of BTC.
Yeah this article is crap. There's no bull run, and there's no reason to be calling for it to be over either. So what if the Japanese and Koreans decided to buy bitcoin? How does that mean that it's not going to rise anymore? There seems to be a big difference between the headlines and article content these days, probably because most traders don't bother to read much deeper anymore. I think they're trying to sensationalize it. Besides, the guy works for a forex broker. He's not a real analyst, he just knows how to read volume charts. It is true though that devaluation of a currency is good for bitcoin. Let's hope that the Japanese, Chinese and Korean central banks all drop their currencies in fear of a trade war. |
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Otherwise I could say the same about you. As long as you haven't sold your coins, Bitcoin will not move up. And that is totally bull shit! You know this.
Learn how markets work. The point is that people don't get what they want because they want it. Why? Because they have entered the market already, and thus will only sell in case the price goes up, where on top of that we're in a situation where there are loads and loads of bagholders holding $10,000-$18,000 coins. In other words, selling pressure on top of more selling pressure. These people need to sell as many of their coins as possible in order to satisfy market movers to put their capital to work. If you think they will let you dump on them you are delusional. As long as the number of floating coins isn't decreasing, there will be no bull run. It could potentially mean that there won't be a bull run for another 2 years. Yeah exactly, there's too much pressure on the upper end and it's going nowhere fast. People who got in late last year during that bull run are stubbornly waiting for the price to get back to breakeven so they can escape without a loss. And they are probably the ones who are calling for prices to be 20, 50, 100k by the end of the year because they are hoping to entice more buyers to jump on while they sit and wait. What's making bitcoin consolidate now is basically stubbornness of early investors. There could be much more liquidity and price action but it's just bumping up and down because they don't want to get out. I think any new market follows a similar pattern with it's virgin bull run. That shock leaves people reeling for at least a year afterwards. |
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