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Gezien het feit dat dit (oude) topic de eerste Google-hit is voor "bitcoin btw", toch hier even een reply. Hebben jullie dit gezien? Een post-masterscriptie in Europese Fiscale Studies, getiteld "Virtuele valuta in de btw" http://www.europesefiscalestudies.nl/upload/EJ%20Creemers.pdf. Gelinkt vanaf hier, publicatie lijkt 2014 te zijn. http://www.europesefiscalestudies.nl/?page_id=347Ik moet er zelf nog in detail doorheenspitten, maar het lijkt erop dat hierin (na onderzoek en volgens de met rechtenkennis onderlegde mening van de auteur) uitgebreid antwoord wordt gegeven op alle vragen in dit topic. |
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You may say this, but for the last few weeks the community has tried to stand up and take over a lot of the tasks. There is a group of the core kitteh supporters on IRC that have tried to do this, but communication from Dano/Dev team has been lacking and holding things up. In a nutshell the community wants to push forward with marketing, planning, leadership etc.... and has for some time... So that Dano only needs to code stuff. But for some reason, they aren't allowed to.
Now with Dano's announcement, it seems as if he has interests in other things.... So I wonder if trying to move this coin forward at this point is even worth the effort.
Now with Dano's announcement (of which I share most people's feelings that it's not the positive message we were waiting for) I would say that opens the way for exactly what you say above. Communication has arrived and things should not be held up anymore for others who wish to contribute. Here's your chance: Kittehcoin is an open-source community project and I have no doubt that a fresh group of people will step in to take the reigns. I will hand over control of the assets (including the donations wallet) as the proper entities step forth to take over- please pm me or email dan@kittehcoin.info if you're interested in being that point person; I will not leave Kittehcoin with someone who has no experience in this kind of thing, I'll make sure it has a good home. To Dano: as the leadership form was recently turned into group leadership (KittehCommand) I would say that one person steps out or at least a bit down (you) and one or more step in. Could you clarify? |
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Multi-pools are parasitic. They are an attack on a coin, plain and simple.
Your coin is defenseless from these attackers.
Could somebody elaborate on the risks that multipools bring? The price of the coin rises, it becomes more valuable to mine, all multipools start mining the coin, the markets are overflowed with coins? Is that it? And on your suggestion of a premined 2.0: do you mean that MEOW 2.0 would be premined (at least for a significant amount) to the benefit of the current owners of MEOW 1.0, who could trade in their current coins 1:1? So like, I own 0.000001% of all current MEOWs, MEOW 1.0 is stopped, MEOW 2.0 is started and I get 0.000001% of all premined MEOW 2.0? This all being hypothetical, as I stated earlier and as argumented by danosphere I think replacing the entire coin is an extreme, risky and hopefully unnecessary measure. I don't know what else to say other than we can't promote this. Expecting community marketing support is difficult because people are less likely to tell their friends and family about a coin that is continually decreasing in value.
"Hey guys why don't you buy some of these magic internet monies! You buy them and then magically you lose money!".
I can't tell anyone to buy this. I really want to, but I can't promote this in good conscience.
I made the mistake of telling one person to buy in to Meow when they were at 40. I feel like I was being overly optimistic of the state of the cryptocurrency community.
All has to come together. Communicating about the coin through all possible channels should attract some attention. You say you can't promote this, as an investment option with a wish for short-term gain I agree but as a concept, an organization, a phenomenon with countless possibilities and an investment option for the long term I don't. It can definitely be promoted. Attention might increase. The price might rise. Maybe. Slowly. Then you might tell a friend "if you like a risky investment that might have a huge payoff, buy some MEOW. The rate is rising.". Then your friend, and my friend, and others, might buy some. The price might rise. Slowly. And services to use MEOW are built. Not only services that allow you to spend your MEOW as an alternative to BTC or USD, but services that allow unique use of the coin. You might tell another friend "this stuff is cool, get some, it's a new type of money and you can do amazing stuff with it". And attention might increase. And the price might rise. Slowly. Etcetera. And maybe, at some point in the future, the rate might go beyond what you and I and your friend at 40 bought it for. Remember that essentially any cryptocoin is just cryptographic data with an audit trail, without intrinsic value. Without services, attention and adoption by the masses, it stays just cryptographic data and any rise in value can only be temporary. I'm in the Kitteh community and not in another because I see a lot of ambition, skills, good vibes and the right amount of playfulness required to make real growth happen. |
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This comment was only a half joke.
We have lost a lot of consumer confidence and just holding and praying is NOT going to get that back.
Also saying Kitteh is great and Kitteh is going to be fine will not make it so. You are going to have a hard time convincing people to use meows as a currency if its continually losing its value. There are new currencies coming out every week (if not day) and MEOW is getting burried underneath the pile of rubbish.
I'm heavily invested in many coins but my investment in kittehcoin has gone done from 80 and 60 to 7. I could sell out now at a 80-90% loss but I would rather just throw the coins away so as not to devalue the currency further.
It seems the start of the end if measures are not taken.
If you take my advice, which you should, but are not required to, you may have a chance to create something lasting before everyone jumps ship. Keep in mind its much easier to hold something than it is to fight to get it back after you let it go.
Kittehcoin needs drastic change and a coordinated push.
A " marketing team" needs to be created. People need to be assigned tasks, (this person creates funny cat memes, this person posts on 4chan, this person to reddit, 9gag, etc etc) to get the word out and and create a buzz.
This is easier said than done when no one is getting paid.
The development team needs to go back to the drawing board and say; What has been done? and What can be done? What are other coins doing? What is no one doing? You can't exist in a vacuum. There is a world going on out there.
Saying "our coin is good and our coin will survive because there was no premine" is naive. A premine or IPO does not mean your coin won't survive. In fact having a development budget will help ensure it does thrive.
This may seem drastic but think about this:
What if the coin was relaunched as Kittehcoin 2.0 with adaptive scrypt-n to prevent multi-pools and asics?
This would prevent constant downward pressure from multi-pools autoselling.
You could create a trade-in like memorycoin or a burn-system like counterparty did where all MEOWS from 1.0 can be traded in for MEOWS from 2.0 so no one loses their stake.
Everyone would start at exactly the same place. But the coin would be stronger.
What if a constant automatic 2% fee was attached to block rewards like several other coins are doing?
That fee could be split 1% to the development fund and 1% to a charity fund that would automatically payout to a specific charity address voted upon each month. Counting on or expecting voluntary donations is one thing. But if you actually want to get things done you HAVE to assume user apathy/laziness and impose that donation in a mandatory fashion.
Do you think anyone is going to complain that 2% of their profits are going to save the lives of homeless and injured animals? Or sae an endangered species of tiger? Of course not.
That would be something people would be promoting and holding long term.
Plain and simple Kittehcoin is a Gen 1 crypto currency competing against Gen 2 currencies.
There is nothing wrong with changing the protocol if it is unanimous.
Don't think of it as "giving up" or "starting over". Lets face it this coin was not planned for a very long time. It was not years in the making. The dev team did some things right, and some things wrong. It's time to learn from those mistakes and make the coin better because of them.
Better (subjective) coins are coming out every day/week. Even if you are not learning from your mistakes, they are.
Waiting and praying is NOT the solution. Neither is continuing on like nothing is wrong.
I agree with many of your points on the need for action and the need for restructuring. Note that action is being taken in this direction: It's definitely not there yet, but I do want to point out that steps are being taken by the team. Wrt a relaunch as a 2.0: could have many advantages (the automatic percentual charity donation is a winner imho), but there are drawbacks. You can only relaunch so many times before people lose their interest. On the other hand: loss of interest from the crypto masses (which seem to change their mind every day) is exactly what's happening now. So gaining new interest in the coin in whatever ways (relaunch as 2.0 or others) is most important now. |
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What a lot of people don't seem to get is that there was NO PREMINE on Kitteh. That means Promotions, Giveaways and bounties ALL have to come from DONATIONS. And honestly I am a little surprised on how little we have actually received, thought people would realize that a strong coin is built from being able to spread the love. Again.. PLEASE DONATE, official address is KTiU2iYZyykHG9EBbYZ85ygpWNReXtZbFm.(as per official website https://kittehcoin.info/) Of course  . Just sent some. we can post a lot of things here but it is much more important to do something for the coin not to post!
if we cant stop the hard selling right now we fall down at the bottom of the reality! AND THIS MEANS NO MORE BIDS NOT EVEN 1 SATOSHI!
POSTINGS WITH 1 Word like "MEOW" cant help us!
+1. So please all respond to this call to action and contribute! https://kittehcoin.info/forums/general-(non-client)-meow-talk/new-website-for-kittehcoin-contributors-lets-grow-kitteh!!/msg2732/ |
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Exactly. People have been saying "halving in 10 days!" for at least 3 weeks now lolz.
lol. i think it halved when the fork occurred and then it will again at block 200k.
Cheers I understand it correctly then. Block reward halving at current mining rates will happen approximately at the beginning of april. So let's contribute until and after that moment to make Kitteh grow! |
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Hold on guys, downtrend is almost over, block reward halving in ten days will remove a huge amount of daily inflation from this coin.
Block reward halving in ten days? How's that? As far as I understand it the block reward will half at 200k, currently we're at block +- 150k, and about 1.5k blocks are solved each day. That would give an estimated 33 days until reward halving. Am I missing something? I totally agree with holding and no panic, don't get me wrong . Just want to understand. |
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So since it is cheap... Buy it all now ? Yes And of course not with money that you need any time soon. Buy, hold, contribute. Spread the word. In the long term, reap benefits by spending some MEOW for a beer at your local pub or to buy a book at Amazon. Why think small? |
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Another example to illustrate the point that value follows adoption and use: Coin2 http://www.coin2-project.org/?page_id=65. What these guys did is basically a complete premine (97.5%), and give all of the coins AWAY to the first lucky 1000 people. These 1000 have now received 48,750 of those coins each. What's that coin worth? Nothing of course, it's just some cryptographic data mined in somebody's back yard. Can it be worth something? Yes, if people start using it. With this I'm not trying to encoure anyone to trade their MEOW for COIN2, quite the opposite (especially at the current meltdown of the price  ). But realize that this coin only has the value that the world gives to it, and act on that. |
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the altcoin market is right now not manageable... too many trash coins, too many people who wants to earn money on a easy way...
Exactly. So the simple question here is: in 1 year, will KittehCoin be remembered as a trashcoin or will people ask "What trashcoins? I just know I can use KittehCoin for [many useful things]" the thing is now to find the right color or right number like in the Casino.... we all gambling.... If purely choosing what investment (in the form of mining or in the form of money) to make, then sitting back and hoping for the best: yes. The important difference with cryptocoins is that you have influence. We all have influence through promoting, developing, making the coin grow, getting it adopted. Try that with roulette. "Friends, family, social networks: gamble on number 23!" But alas, 23 will always have the same chance of winning. Cryptocoins can be a casino if you treat them that way, and currently almost everyone who does is on a loosing streak. But they are so much more than that. |
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we need to think why maxcoins and others are still maintaining price while kittiehs are dying  Most coins are doing very poorly really. EAC went from 300 Satoshis two weeks ago to the 40-50s now. Things will turn around in time. We just have to roll with the punches. +1. The current rate is not so important. What's important is support, development, promotion, an alive and growing coin. Efforts of all of us who support it. There are many altcoins, and many are hyped, have a short life and die. Of the 2-3-400? current altcoins in existence, how many will be in active use in 3 months? In 6 months? In 1 year? I don't think a lot. And sure, new ones will come around which are hyped and will die even in those timespans. Will KittehCoin be alive in a year? I believe it can be, and it has a good chance. And that chance totally depends on what the people supporting the coin do or not do. Those people are the KittehCoin team, but just as much you, me and many others here Why will KittehCoin live or die? It will live if it has support from many people, marketing, adoption by stores, adoption as a currency for some purpose, etc etc. The current rate doesn't matter that much, because altcoins are still an extremely young phenomenon and it's always a matter of taking risks. Investing in MEOW at 60 satoshis is a risk, using the scarce mining resources you control to mine it is a risk, investing in MEOW at 12 satoshis is a risk and even investing at 3 satoshis is a risk. And as far as the rate is of importance, one major point in favor of KittehCoin is the relative scarcity. The pool of MEOW is currently almost 7 billion and limited to a total of 25. The amount of trading still isn't very high. If you want to know what a high amount of trading looks like, take a look at the Cryptsy order book for MOON or to a lesser extent LEAF. To give an extreme example: with 50 BTC you can buy all the MEOW sell orders on Cryptsy up to 30 satoshi's. Spend that same amount of BTC on MOON (which is at 3 now) and you're still left with half of the sell orders at 6. What I'm trying to point out is that the rate for MEOW can still quite easily go both ways, up or down. If the rate of MEOW would drop to 3 satoshis, would that mean the coin is dead? No, because lots of efforts are still alive and kicking, allowing the coin to grow. The current downward spiral has to be turned into an upward spiral, and sitting and waiting for Max Keiser to say something favourable isn't gonna do it. If the rate drops to 3 and nobody continues efforts on the coin like maintenance, development and marketing (and of course mining), would that mean the coin dies? Probably. There are enough examples of that already in the short history of altcoins. To speak with a shamelessly adapted quote: ask not what your coin can do for you, ask what you can do for your coin |
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Great initiative! Both for the cause and for the publicity of Kittehcoin. Voted of course. Please get the donation address up on the KittehCoin website (not forum or wiki) to increase trust. |
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