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I don't know where did you get this information but I think you were totally wrong.
Don't know why this thread was bumped, but I'm finding it interesting. I've always read that cloud mining operations are mostly Ponzi schemes, and I tend to believe it. People want to get into mining, especially during bull markets (when it's most profitable) and from my understanding it's very hard to mine enough in an individual operation to cover all the costs involved in doing so. So people turn to these scammy, fly-by-night cloud mining places that offer you hashing power--but there's no way of telling what they're actually doing with your money once they get it, and I've definitely read a number of scam accusations on bitcointalk about these places. Not in a while, however. I think people have wised up to the game and aren't getting scammed as often as they used to. As I said, it is more profitable to mine when the price of bitcoin is high, and that should make intuitive sense to anyone who thinks about it. The difficulty in mining has nothing to do with the price, so you can recoup your expenses much quicker when the price is higher. As far as making money in a bear market, I vote for the buy-and-hold technique. It's always a gamble, but when bitcoin's price is down it usually rebounds. It takes balls, however. It's much easier to have enthusiasm for and to buy something when the price is going up than it is when it's going down. That's why most people don't make any money trading IMO. I think the issue with the cloud mining contracts is that its mostly new adopters who get suckered into those contracts who don't exactly understand how difficulty works. Basically I've met 2 individuals locally who got involved in these mining contracts. They said that it was a better deal for them since they didn't know how to "build computers" and had "wives/girlfriends who didn't like loud computers" so the cloud mining was a better option for them. They said that "If BTC goes down in price ... we will all lose money anyways". But I told them what happens if the price trades sideways or goes up slowly and difficulty starts to increase expoenetially, they had no idea what I was talking about. They assumed if you make 0.01 BTC today... you will make this 1 year from now when the contract expires. And this the reason why they are so popular is because most people don't know how difficulty works. Neither did I when I started my GPU mining farm a few years back. Learnt it the hard way. Actually you don't need to worry about problems like "wives/girlfriends who didn't like loud computers" and have no alternatives but to cloud mining, because some companies have like '' hosting services'' to help you operate your miners... |
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I don't know where did you get this information but I think you were totally wrong.
Don't know why this thread was bumped, but I'm finding it interesting. I've always read that cloud mining operations are mostly Ponzi schemes, and I tend to believe it. People want to get into mining, especially during bull markets (when it's most profitable) and from my understanding it's very hard to mine enough in an individual operation to cover all the costs involved in doing so. So people turn to these scammy, fly-by-night cloud mining places that offer you hashing power--but there's no way of telling what they're actually doing with your money once they get it, and I've definitely read a number of scam accusations on bitcointalk about these places. Not in a while, however. I think people have wised up to the game and aren't getting scammed as often as they used to. As I said, it is more profitable to mine when the price of bitcoin is high, and that should make intuitive sense to anyone who thinks about it. The difficulty in mining has nothing to do with the price, so you can recoup your expenses much quicker when the price is higher. As far as making money in a bear market, I vote for the buy-and-hold technique. It's always a gamble, but when bitcoin's price is down it usually rebounds. It takes balls, however. It's much easier to have enthusiasm for and to buy something when the price is going up than it is when it's going down. That's why most people don't make any money trading IMO. Thanks for your respond! I totally agree with you that it is hard for individual operation to cover all the costs so they tend to cloud mining, maybe the operation mode of cloud mining is being highly risky and the scheme is not transparent so people don't know where their money actually flows to. And I also agree with the buy-and-hold technique, I think it can be also used in mining, even in the bear market, where people invest in miners, and holds the coins they got, so they could harvest in the bull market. For people who think it is difficult on operating of lots of miners, I've heard some institutions provide related professional services, such as hosting services. |
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Miners can profit but it is definitely a challange when it comes down to calculating the right moments.
First of all if you live in a place with high electricity cost you are already going to just lose a ton of money right at the get go, many rich wealthy miners build their platform on places with either zero or very little cost so they can have less costs to keep it open. Iceland was I think one of the cheap places with a cold weather which helped reduce heat issue as well. China has certain areas with very little to no electricity cost as well.
So all in all if you are trying to do this on a normal place you are going to most definitely fail at it. Plus, even if you are in a great place you should definitely look at the difficulty and profits at all times, if its not making you money than you close shop and when it does you open it back up and constantly calculate that.
Well I think there is no such a place we called 'data center' is mining without electricity costs, even in certain areas in Iceland or China or some other remote areas. We can say those places are with lower operating costs, and because of the bear market, even the lowest mining costs becomes the difficulty of miners, so yeah, if someone decided to mining, it is a right strategy for him to find the best place with lowest electricity fees, but I think there is another vital thing is to choose the right machine, especially in the bear market, one wants to earn profit and needs to get avoid of the risk of turning off as well.. So it is risky, but it's for long-term investment. |
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I get it. Always buy low, sell high. But when it comes to mining. I know someone who never got to gain profits from it and became deficient. His capital is no joke producing mining facilities. And electricity is really high. Not all miners had a success stories. We underestimate it. You can still choose an alternative way of earning in crypto world.
Yea I agree with you that the electricity is high, that's why people say investing in machine for mining is not a small amount, so do you have some advice on alternative way of earning? The only alternative way of earning crypto now is to trade on the existing ones which is very effective but a risky part for those who don’t trade well. Another way of earning crypto currency which is applicable to new ones by participating in their ICOs or registering for airdrops and aside those, no other easy way, though one can still look for some of these smaller coins to mine that are not energy intensive but even in mining them, we can only hope that we don’t mine shitcoins. Thanks for your suggestion, these choices are all based on short-term trading and I think it looks like gamble, investing in mining maybe a better choice for long-term investment, and you said you know people who got losses on mining, maybe they were just choose the wrong machine? because as I know, not all machine could earn profit especially in the bear market, so one needs to be careful about that. |
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The problem with buying low and selling high is that the market fluctuates very quickly so it is easy to get caught short. For new traders just buying bitcoin and wait for it to rise, learn about the other coins then switch to one that is going to pump
And actually it is difficult for new traders to distinguish when is the best time (the lowest) for them to buy in... |
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I get it. Always buy low, sell high. But when it comes to mining. I know someone who never got to gain profits from it and became deficient. His capital is no joke producing mining facilities. And electricity is really high. Not all miners had a success stories. We underestimate it. You can still choose an alternative way of earning in crypto world.
Yea I agree with you that the electricity is high, that's why people say investing in machine for mining is not a small amount, so do you have some advice on alternative way of earning? |
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It seems to me that mining is not so important now. For me the best way is to trade. You could learn this and then you will always be in the black despite the market situation.
Why mining is not important now? So you have better way to trade? How do you know you always on the right side for sure? If so, then trading will become a risk free game right? Could you share me more experience on trading? |
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All these movements are part of something very important, they want us to sell cheap, when this is the opportunity to buy cheap, so maybe, by lowering the price of bitcoin cause panic in people who have invested in bitcoin, especially , those who are insecure.
Generally when bear market strikes, people choose the most basic strategy which is 'buy low sell high'. so for people who interested in bitcoin, the insecure comes from the market's ups and downs, especially in short term, it is better to invest with long-term view |
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Personally I'm looking for long term investment so I try to use simple MA to analyze when I can purchase it
For example with current situation, the pattern show that it's positive enough to purchase and when the graph start to move, it's show the correct decision !
So you mean in current situation, buying a machine to get btc is the best solution for long term investment? MA means Moving Average so you misunderstood it to a machine. And if I'm correct, he's talking about trading not mining. Well, from my understanding, MA is an analytic method for him to analyze whether it's worth to put the investment. And as he said for long term investment, it is more possible that he's talking about mining because trading is for short term investment. |
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#1 is kinda given. That's what people do when prices for something they value and believe will increase in value is at a low cost. #2 is just sketchy and I wouldn't bother with it. #3 would come with additional maintenance and utility costs I'd rather not have.
Thanks for your advice, and don't you think #1 is more risky with lower return compared with #3? the difference between 1&3 for investor is only the investment on machine, but price will be fluctuating for a while and you can't control it, if someone really has a faith in Bitcoin which will bring them value, why they couldn't invest in machines that creating Bitcoins, the thing they believe in and wait for the value grows? |
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If you think cloud mining works you are wrong ,don't even try it ,all cloud mining services are just ponzi schemes that are perfectly organized ,too hard to believe ,making investors believe that they have large farm full of mining rigs ,stay away you've been warned
I've got so many comments related to cloud mining is a ponzi scheme and I did not advice them at the beginning. What I was saying is to own a machine and getting coins directly maybe less risky than buying coins. |
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I can say you are right about the first advice but others I don’t really accept them. There are pretty many ways to make money even in bear market and some platforms offers the option of shorting which many people has gained from it in the past months especially with bitcoin. Mining is what I like b cause I thin it’s kind of a Ponzi scheme and many of them do fold up at some time in the business. Nothing last for long, as a good trader you should be able to profit both in bear and bull. It’s just about knowing the right thing to do and do it diligently.
I agree with the opinion that there are many ways to make money even in bear market, but I'm disagree with what you are saying is the opinion 'mining is a kind of Ponzi scheme', because from my understanding, 'buying the hashrate' and 'buying a machine to get btc' are totally two different things. Most of comments above said 'buying hashrate' (which equals to 'cloud mining') is a Ponzi shceme, though I still do not know why they say that, I think maybe most of cloud mining companies are frauds in nature. why? years of experience in seeing new cloud mining companies coming up and say they are legitimate and provide all kinds of weird "proof" and then go belly up after a while because they were Ponzi schemes. it is not a profitable business so they have to do other things to make ends meet. and it has always been like this. here is a topic you can read for more information: ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁Thank you so much for sharing this link!! That really helps   |
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bar·gain /ˈbärɡən/ - a thing bought or offered for sale more cheaply than is usual or expected. (BARGAIN | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary. (n.d.). Retrieved from https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bargain) 1. Buy Bitcoins and wait the price to increase.
What if you bought at the peak of its price at a certain time? you need to have a basis what is the right time to buy a bitcoin and you don't have assurance that you bought it in bargain since it has no usual price because it is volatile and doesn't have a stable price. 2. Buy the hashrate of BTC miners and find the miner hosting services.
For what I've known and according to the surveys I've read online (Not sure if it was true) a few months back buying hashrates are not that profitable at all also buying hashrates refer to as a cloud mining. 3. Get a BTC miner directly and mining bitcoins by themselves.
Let's say you bought a $1200 miner (Just an example) plus the payment for the electricity to run your miner and the current price of bitcoin. I think you're investment in miner as well as in electricity cost much rather on what you're earning from mining (because of the low price of bitcoin) To conclude this the only way I think you can bought a bargain bitcoin is to user by user agreement on where a you're going to do a direct exchange with a certain user with a price lower than on an exchange. Thanks for your comprehensive analysis on these three opinions (of my own:P), but I have some different opinion for the third comment, 'I think you're investment in miner as well as in electricity cost much rather on what you're earning from mining'. No, the miner itself does not have much value, so I think buying the miner does not mean to invest in the machine itself, it's the initial cost (so as to the electricity fees), what you actually invest is the btc mining by the machine, and the future increase on the value of them. |
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There is a saying that anyone can make money in a bull market, but bear markets are where future profits are carved. This could apply to the current market situation especially when the market trend turns to be better. The price of BTC soared from the bottom on December of 2018 at $3,203 to around $4,000 recently, which has increased by nearly 25% in only three months. When miners are worry about their losses on the devaluation of BTC, the market moved and getting better in a rapid speed. Under the current duration where the bear turns to bull. It is the best time for bargain hunting for miners. There are several ways for bargain hunting and the chief three are shown as below: 1. Buy Bitcoins and wait the price to increase. 2. Buy the hashrate of BTC miners and find the miner hosting services. 3. Get a BTC miner directly and mining bitcoins by themselves. There are pros and cons of these ways. From my opinion, for example, for risk-averse people, purchasing a BTC miner is a better way because the only cost is the investment capital on the miner and electricity fees of the data center. Compared with buying Bitcoins from the Exchange place, getting a BTC miner could be more safe and stable. The only disadvantage of the third way is probably its inconvenience of subsequent procedures such as hosting and operating. Though, it could be easily figured out by experienced platform and specialized companies. I am a beginer of Bitcoin and Blockchain industry and still in the process of learning, feel feel to contact me and you guys are also very welcomed to email me. We could discuss and learn together  nikkoxiaoxiaoli@gmail.comof the three ways only number 1 is the most commonly used by most investors, this method is considered easy and has little risk because buying at a basic price, and about yourself I don't think you are a beginner even you already understand a lot about actual crypto investment Thanks, but I'm still learning on it. Actually I don't think the no.1 method has little risk, instead, I think it is the most risky choice, think about the stock market, isn't it quite similar? and I think there are a lot differences between investment and speculation. |
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Indeed, profits occur before a bullish market, someone will not get a profit without going through a bearish period, so take advantage of the bearish market as well as possible instead of complaining because bitcoin is not going up,
Totally agree with you!  So what do you think about the current market? a bullish market right? Well the fact that it's a bear market means that most coins are at a bargain price. You just have to be patient in timing when you think the price is close to the bottom. Have a plan. And i don't think the current status of the market can be considered as bullish yet. Probably not until we can get back to around 6k in a consistent trend. Yep, I think so. It's true that at current time most coins are at a bargain price, so be patient means to do nothing? what kind of ways you think is a proper one to utilize especially on current bargain price period: buying coins at low price or buying the machine? |
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Personally I'm looking for long term investment so I try to use simple MA to analyze when I can purchase it
For example with current situation, the pattern show that it's positive enough to purchase and when the graph start to move, it's show the correct decision !
So you mean in current situation, buying a machine to get btc is the best solution for long term investment? |
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I can say you are right about the first advice but others I don’t really accept them. There are pretty many ways to make money even in bear market and some platforms offers the option of shorting which many people has gained from it in the past months especially with bitcoin. Mining is what I like b cause I thin it’s kind of a Ponzi scheme and many of them do fold up at some time in the business. Nothing last for long, as a good trader you should be able to profit both in bear and bull. It’s just about knowing the right thing to do and do it diligently.
I agree with the opinion that there are many ways to make money even in bear market, but I'm disagree with what you are saying is the opinion 'mining is a kind of Ponzi scheme', because from my understanding, 'buying the hashrate' and 'buying a machine to get btc' are totally two different things. Most of comments above said 'buying hashrate' (which equals to 'cloud mining') is a Ponzi shceme, though I still do not know why they say that, I think maybe most of cloud mining companies are frauds in nature. |
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I support you too. Many people simply fear that they will lose everything or simply want to make easy money quickly. So now there are so many disappointed in Bitcoin. In the end, those who see Bitcoin as a long-term investment will benefit. Those who are now looking for promising projects and investing a little money in them in 3-5 years can make a fortune. We just all need patience. Speculations rarely make a lot of money. For a period of 5-10 years, long-term investment shows significantly better results than speculation.
Exactly, thanks for your support! I think the truth for the word of 'earning' is not simply equals to 'quick money' or 'returns', is a kind of sustainable thing. So I think one is better look at a greater picture more than a limited one. |
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my best advice is to engage in a business that will bring profit for you in cryptocurrency. Even your profit is less but due to bear market you will get the good amount of crytocurrency.
PS: I see you are creating a new post for each reply,multiposting is against the forum rule and you can reply everyone in a single post.
Thanks for reminding but do you mean quoting? I don't know how to reply each on without using quote  And what kind of business you mentioned above? Could you give me an example? |
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Indeed, profits occur before a bullish market, someone will not get a profit without going through a bearish period, so take advantage of the bearish market as well as possible instead of complaining because bitcoin is not going up,
Totally agree with you! So what do you think about the current market? a bullish market right? |
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