Best Way for Bargain Hunting in the Bear Market!

[blockman]

Personally I'm looking for long term investment so I try to use simple MA to analyze when I can purchase it
For example with current situation, the pattern show that it's positive enough to purchase and when the graph start to move, it's show the correct decision !

So you mean in current situation, buying a machine to get btc is the best solution for long term investment?

MA means Moving Average so you misunderstood it to a machine.

And if I'm correct, he's talking about trading not mining.

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[LUCKMCFLY]

All these movements are part of something very important, they want us to sell cheap, when this is the opportunity to buy cheap, so maybe, by lowering the price of bitcoin cause panic in people who have invested in bitcoin, especially , those who are insecure.

[Ultimist]

It seems to me that mining is not so important now. For me the best way is to trade. You could learn this and then you will always be in the black despite the market situation.

[maxreish]

I get it. Always buy low, sell high. But when it comes to mining. I know someone who never got to gain profits from it and became deficient. His capital is no joke producing mining facilities. And electricity is really high. Not all miners had a success stories. We underestimate it. You can still choose an alternative way of earning in crypto world.

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

#1 is kinda given. That's what people do when prices for something they value and believe will increase in value is at a low cost. #2 is just sketchy and I wouldn't bother with it. #3 would come with additional maintenance and utility costs I'd rather not have.

Thanks for your advice, and don't you think #1 is more risky with lower return compared with #3? the difference between 1&3 for investor is only the investment on machine, but price will be fluctuating for a while and you can't control it, if someone really has a faith in Bitcoin which will bring them value, why they couldn't invest in machines that creating Bitcoins, the thing they believe in and wait for the value grows? 

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

Personally I'm looking for long term investment so I try to use simple MA to analyze when I can purchase it
For example with current situation, the pattern show that it's positive enough to purchase and when the graph start to move, it's show the correct decision !

So you mean in current situation, buying a machine to get btc is the best solution for long term investment?

MA means Moving Average so you misunderstood it to a machine.

And if I'm correct, he's talking about trading not mining.

Well, from my understanding, MA is an analytic method for him to analyze whether it's worth to put the investment. And as he said for long term investment, it is more possible that he's talking about mining because trading is for short term investment.

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

All these movements are part of something very important, they want us to sell cheap, when this is the opportunity to buy cheap, so maybe, by lowering the price of bitcoin cause panic in people who have invested in bitcoin, especially , those who are insecure.

Generally when bear market strikes, people choose the most basic strategy which is 'buy low sell high'. so for people who interested in bitcoin, the insecure comes from the market's ups and downs, especially in short term, it is better to invest with long-term view

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

It seems to me that mining is not so important now. For me the best way is to trade. You could learn this and then you will always be in the black despite the market situation.

Why mining is not important now? So you have better way to trade? How do you know you always on the right side for sure? If so, then trading will become a risk free game right? Could you share me more experience on trading?

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

I get it. Always buy low, sell high. But when it comes to mining. I know someone who never got to gain profits from it and became deficient. His capital is no joke producing mining facilities. And electricity is really high. Not all miners had a success stories. We underestimate it. You can still choose an alternative way of earning in crypto world.

Yea I agree with you that the electricity is high, that's why people say investing in machine for mining is not a small amount, so do you have some advice on alternative way of earning?

[KryptoKai]

The problem with buying low and selling high is that the market fluctuates very quickly so it is easy to get caught short. For new traders just buying bitcoin and wait for it to rise, learn about the other coins then switch to one that is going to pump

[FanEagle]

I get it. Always buy low, sell high. But when it comes to mining. I know someone who never got to gain profits from it and became deficient. His capital is no joke producing mining facilities. And electricity is really high. Not all miners had a success stories. We underestimate it. You can still choose an alternative way of earning in crypto world.

Yea I agree with you that the electricity is high, that's why people say investing in machine for mining is not a small amount, so do you have some advice on alternative way of earning?

The only alternative way of earning crypto now is to trade on the existing ones which is very effective but a risky part for those who don’t trade well.

Another way of earning crypto currency which is applicable to new ones by participating in their ICOs or registering for airdrops and aside those, no other easy way, though one can still look for some of these smaller coins to mine that are not energy intensive but even in mining them, we can only hope that we don’t mine shitcoins.

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

The problem with buying low and selling high is that the market fluctuates very quickly so it is easy to get caught short. For new traders just buying bitcoin and wait for it to rise, learn about the other coins then switch to one that is going to pump

And actually it is difficult for new traders to  distinguish when is the best time (the lowest) for them to buy in...

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

I get it. Always buy low, sell high. But when it comes to mining. I know someone who never got to gain profits from it and became deficient. His capital is no joke producing mining facilities. And electricity is really high. Not all miners had a success stories. We underestimate it. You can still choose an alternative way of earning in crypto world.

Yea I agree with you that the electricity is high, that's why people say investing in machine for mining is not a small amount, so do you have some advice on alternative way of earning?

The only alternative way of earning crypto now is to trade on the existing ones which is very effective but a risky part for those who don’t trade well.

Another way of earning crypto currency which is applicable to new ones by participating in their ICOs or registering for airdrops and aside those, no other easy way, though one can still look for some of these smaller coins to mine that are not energy intensive but even in mining them, we can only hope that we don’t mine shitcoins.

Thanks for your suggestion, these choices are all based on short-term trading and I think it looks like gamble, investing in mining maybe a better choice for long-term investment, and you said you know people who got losses on mining, maybe they were just choose the wrong machine? because as I know, not all machine could earn profit especially in the bear market, so one needs to be careful about that.

[wxa7115]

The problem with buying low and selling high is that the market fluctuates very quickly so it is easy to get caught short. For new traders just buying bitcoin and wait for it to rise, learn about the other coins then switch to one that is going to pump

If you are continually hitting your stops after entering a trade then your stops are too close to the price and you need to make them larger, this obviously increases your risk since now you can get bigger losses but it is a risk that is necessary to take since it is quite possible that you could be forced out of a position that was going to be profitable but in which the price went against you for some time and then it skyrocketed.

This has happened to me several times already and it is something you need to consider when you are creating your trading strategy and it is even more true in this market that is known for its huge volatility.

[wuvdoll]

Miners can profit but it is definitely a challange when it comes down to calculating the right moments.

First of all if you live in a place with high electricity cost you are already going to just lose a ton of money right at the get go, many rich wealthy miners build their platform on places with either zero or very little cost so they can have less costs to keep it open. Iceland was I think one of the cheap places with a cold weather which helped reduce heat issue as well. China has certain areas with very little to no electricity cost as well.

So all in all if you are trying to do this on a normal place you are going to most definitely fail at it. Plus, even if you are in a great place you should definitely look at the difficulty and profits at all times, if its not making you money than you close shop and when it does you open it back up and constantly calculate that.

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

Miners can profit but it is definitely a challange when it comes down to calculating the right moments.

First of all if you live in a place with high electricity cost you are already going to just lose a ton of money right at the get go, many rich wealthy miners build their platform on places with either zero or very little cost so they can have less costs to keep it open. Iceland was I think one of the cheap places with a cold weather which helped reduce heat issue as well. China has certain areas with very little to no electricity cost as well.

So all in all if you are trying to do this on a normal place you are going to most definitely fail at it. Plus, even if you are in a great place you should definitely look at the difficulty and profits at all times, if its not making you money than you close shop and when it does you open it back up and constantly calculate that.

Well I think there is no such a place we called 'data center' is mining without electricity costs, even in certain areas in Iceland or China or some other remote areas. We can say those places are with lower operating costs, and because of the bear market, even the lowest mining costs becomes the difficulty of miners, so yeah, if someone decided to mining, it is a right strategy for him to find the best place with lowest electricity fees, but I think there is another vital thing is to choose the right machine, especially in the bear market, one wants to earn profit and needs to get avoid of the risk of turning off as well.. So it is risky, but it's for long-term investment.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I don't know  where did you get this information but I think you were totally wrong.

Don't know why this thread was bumped, but I'm finding it interesting. 

I've always read that cloud mining operations are mostly Ponzi schemes, and I tend to believe it.  People want to get into mining, especially during bull markets (when it's most profitable) and from my understanding it's very hard to mine enough in an individual operation to cover all the costs involved in doing so.  So people turn to these scammy, fly-by-night cloud mining places that offer you hashing power--but there's no way of telling what they're actually doing with your money once they get it, and I've definitely read a number of scam accusations on bitcointalk about these places.  Not in a while, however.  I think people have wised up to the game and aren't getting scammed as often as they used to.

As I said, it is more profitable to mine when the price of bitcoin is high, and that should make intuitive sense to anyone who thinks about it.  The difficulty in mining has nothing to do with the price, so you can recoup your expenses much quicker when the price is higher. 

As far as making money in a bear market, I vote for the buy-and-hold technique.  It's always a gamble, but when bitcoin's price is down it usually rebounds.  It takes balls, however.  It's much easier to have enthusiasm for and to buy something when the price is going up than it is when it's going down.  That's why most people don't make any money trading IMO.

[adaseb]

I don't know  where did you get this information but I think you were totally wrong.

Don't know why this thread was bumped, but I'm finding it interesting. 

I've always read that cloud mining operations are mostly Ponzi schemes, and I tend to believe it.  People want to get into mining, especially during bull markets (when it's most profitable) and from my understanding it's very hard to mine enough in an individual operation to cover all the costs involved in doing so.  So people turn to these scammy, fly-by-night cloud mining places that offer you hashing power--but there's no way of telling what they're actually doing with your money once they get it, and I've definitely read a number of scam accusations on bitcointalk about these places.  Not in a while, however.  I think people have wised up to the game and aren't getting scammed as often as they used to.

As I said, it is more profitable to mine when the price of bitcoin is high, and that should make intuitive sense to anyone who thinks about it.  The difficulty in mining has nothing to do with the price, so you can recoup your expenses much quicker when the price is higher. 

As far as making money in a bear market, I vote for the buy-and-hold technique.  It's always a gamble, but when bitcoin's price is down it usually rebounds.  It takes balls, however.  It's much easier to have enthusiasm for and to buy something when the price is going up than it is when it's going down.  That's why most people don't make any money trading IMO.

I think the issue with the cloud mining contracts is that its mostly new adopters who get suckered into those contracts who don't exactly understand how difficulty works.

Basically I've met 2 individuals locally who got involved in these mining contracts. They said that it was a better deal for them since they didn't know how to "build computers" and had "wives/girlfriends who didn't like loud computers" so the cloud mining was a better option for them.

They said that "If BTC goes down in price ... we will all lose money anyways". But I told them what happens if the price trades sideways or goes up slowly and difficulty starts to increase expoenetially, they had no idea what I was talking about.

They assumed if you make 0.01 BTC today... you will make this 1 year from now when the contract expires. And this the reason why they are so popular is because most people don't know how difficulty works. Neither did I when I started my GPU mining farm a few years back. Learnt it the hard way.

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

I don't know  where did you get this information but I think you were totally wrong.

Don't know why this thread was bumped, but I'm finding it interesting. 

I've always read that cloud mining operations are mostly Ponzi schemes, and I tend to believe it.  People want to get into mining, especially during bull markets (when it's most profitable) and from my understanding it's very hard to mine enough in an individual operation to cover all the costs involved in doing so.  So people turn to these scammy, fly-by-night cloud mining places that offer you hashing power--but there's no way of telling what they're actually doing with your money once they get it, and I've definitely read a number of scam accusations on bitcointalk about these places.  Not in a while, however.  I think people have wised up to the game and aren't getting scammed as often as they used to.

As I said, it is more profitable to mine when the price of bitcoin is high, and that should make intuitive sense to anyone who thinks about it.  The difficulty in mining has nothing to do with the price, so you can recoup your expenses much quicker when the price is higher. 

As far as making money in a bear market, I vote for the buy-and-hold technique.  It's always a gamble, but when bitcoin's price is down it usually rebounds.  It takes balls, however.  It's much easier to have enthusiasm for and to buy something when the price is going up than it is when it's going down.  That's why most people don't make any money trading IMO.

Thanks for your respond!

I totally agree with you that it is hard for individual operation to cover all the costs so they tend to cloud mining, maybe the operation mode of cloud mining is being highly risky and the scheme is not transparent so people don't know where their money actually flows to. 

And I also agree with the buy-and-hold technique, I think it can be also used in mining, even in the bear market, where people invest in miners, and holds the coins they got, so they could harvest in the bull market. For people who think it is difficult on operating of lots of miners, I've heard some institutions provide related professional services, such as hosting services.

[nikkoxiaoxiao]

I don't know  where did you get this information but I think you were totally wrong.

Don't know why this thread was bumped, but I'm finding it interesting. 

I've always read that cloud mining operations are mostly Ponzi schemes, and I tend to believe it.  People want to get into mining, especially during bull markets (when it's most profitable) and from my understanding it's very hard to mine enough in an individual operation to cover all the costs involved in doing so.  So people turn to these scammy, fly-by-night cloud mining places that offer you hashing power--but there's no way of telling what they're actually doing with your money once they get it, and I've definitely read a number of scam accusations on bitcointalk about these places.  Not in a while, however.  I think people have wised up to the game and aren't getting scammed as often as they used to.

As I said, it is more profitable to mine when the price of bitcoin is high, and that should make intuitive sense to anyone who thinks about it.  The difficulty in mining has nothing to do with the price, so you can recoup your expenses much quicker when the price is higher. 

As far as making money in a bear market, I vote for the buy-and-hold technique.  It's always a gamble, but when bitcoin's price is down it usually rebounds.  It takes balls, however.  It's much easier to have enthusiasm for and to buy something when the price is going up than it is when it's going down.  That's why most people don't make any money trading IMO.

I think the issue with the cloud mining contracts is that its mostly new adopters who get suckered into those contracts who don't exactly understand how difficulty works.

Basically I've met 2 individuals locally who got involved in these mining contracts. They said that it was a better deal for them since they didn't know how to "build computers" and had "wives/girlfriends who didn't like loud computers" so the cloud mining was a better option for them.

They said that "If BTC goes down in price ... we will all lose money anyways". But I told them what happens if the price trades sideways or goes up slowly and difficulty starts to increase expoenetially, they had no idea what I was talking about.

They assumed if you make 0.01 BTC today... you will make this 1 year from now when the contract expires. And this the reason why they are so popular is because most people don't know how difficulty works. Neither did I when I started my GPU mining farm a few years back. Learnt it the hard way.

Actually you don't need to worry about problems like  "wives/girlfriends who didn't like loud computers" and have no alternatives but to cloud mining, because some companies have like '' hosting services'' to help you operate your miners...