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As you may recall, we at Mt.Gox/Tibanne started back in 2011 to use any resources at our disposal to keep “Bitcoin” out the reach of people interested in profiting for it without bringing back anything in compensation to the community.
While the battle seems to be over in the US, Europe in the other hand is another story all together.
Indeed and despite having successfully protected “Bitcoin” has a trademark in Europe in 2011, the PASCAZI team via Mrs Celine PASCAZI tired to register back in July 2011 in France the term BITCOIN as a trademark to counteract and diminish the value of the European Bitcoin trademark that was previously secure thanks to our action.
Thankfully, we are glad to report today to the Bitcoin community that the French Trademark Office granted our opposition against the BITCOIN trademark held by Ms Celine PASCAZI.
Although the applicant, here Mrs Celine PASCAZI, did not file observations in response, this decision is now final. However Mrs Celine PASCAZI can still make an appeal before the Court of Appeal of Paris within one month after today’s victory.
Of course and if this would ever happen, we will here as well use any resources at our disposal to fight this appeal.
Well then: There are now zero reasons why Mt Gox cannot begin issuing royalty free licenses to its trademark. None. Unless of course they do not want to! The owner of Linux does it. I suspect that Mt Gox will not do it. They paid good money to fight for the mark. They make a small fortune off of Bitcoin users every day. They are a profit engine. They will come up with all sorts of plausible bunko reasons why they cannot issue licenses, but none of it will be real. Have no illusions; they are in it for the bucks! These releases of theirs where they talk about others and the trademark are designed to distract from the fact, repeat the fact, that they have secured trademarks all over the world. They are the anointed ones. And anybody who gets in the way of their money machine better look out. Go ahead and ask them for those licenses; see what you get in return. Jimmy. |
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Linus Torvalds (his foundation) has been handing out licenses on LINUX for about 15 years now. What is so hard and mysterious MtGox?
Maybe we need to actually get the trademark on anything before we do something with those? It'll take close to 6 months to get anything from that, which gives a lot of time before we can do anything at all (changing trademark owners while being in the application process is usually not a good thing). The registration of trademark is the fruit of long talks with various members of the community. It's time consuming and funds consuming, but is required if we don't want to see things go bad. We are trying our best to help the Bitcoin world expand, and for this we need some stability and help merchants feel secure when they use the word "Bitcoin" on advertising material. Our interest in this should be obvious enough. The more people can use Bitcoin freely, the more people will trade in and out on MtGox and other exchanges. Using the Bitcoin trademark for other purposes (forcing people using the word Bitcoin to buy a license) will most likely not result in any profit, either on short term (I don't think anyone here would be ready to use Bitcoin as a trademark) or long term (it's not a long term strategy either). It doesn't make sense to use Bitcoin as a trademark to make money by enforcing it, but it certainly makes sense as a way to ensure everyone can adopt Bitcoin without having to worry. Keeping the ownership of the trademark is not a requirement to achieve this goal, and we have a few more announcements that will make things easier to understand. We are open to questions from anyone, and will make our best to ensure everyone fully understands our goal here. While MtGox has grown quite a bit and I don't have much time to post on the forums, we are still doing our best for Bitcoin and the community. I am actually quite surprised to see how some people who were initially friendly with us are now talking about MtGox like if we were some sort of "World Company™" with only profit in mind. 6+ months and counting and still no open trademark license to even look at. We did not forget. Jimmy |
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MtGox, où est la licence de marque libre et ouvert? 3 mois ont passé. Rien!
Il faut entre 6 mois et 2 ans pour enregistrer une marque. C'est long et difficile (et couteux, en plus). On donnera plus de nouvelles une fois l'opération finie  Deja 6+ mois et rien! Pas vrais. Jimmy |
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Advocat, how can they release license to something they have no trademark rights for yet?
Easy as pie. They convey rights to any and all marks applied for or registered by, or for, MtGox Co. Ltd. and/or Tibanne Co. Ltd., now and in the future, relating to the term Bitcoin, in any and all Nice Convention mark classifications. Done. Didn't hurt at all. |
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It's not MagicalTux's decision anymore, he doesn't have final say.
How so? You are a subordinate entity under a corporation and without a doubt you answer to investors. and I noticed just like in your customer support replies you completely ignored my still missing 96.44 BTC from the June crash. With all due respect. Was it really a "crash"? Or did somebody say it was a crash to boost the bottom line? Those Bernie Madoff statements looked pretty real. Fooled a bunch of people; smart people; rich people. How do you know it was a crash? Because somebody told you so? Well, I'm telling you that the moon is made of green cheese. Go for that too? Whoever does, I have a bridge I'm looking to sell. It goes from Manhattan to Brooklyn, and it is pretty. Lots of "crashes" and "hacks" with this Bitcoin thing. believe then all. Some? Most? None? The one thing which is sure is that people's hard earned money disappears. Damn sure. |
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Well I feel better now knowing that you have ordained MtGox as worthy to obtain the Bitcoin trademark. How about Tradehill? CampBX? Or any one of the hundreds of Bitcoin entrepreneurs around the world? Are they not worthy? Are they not legitimate? Are some more worthy than others? Are you worthy? If a sovereign government issues a trademark, is anyone stealing anything? Maybe you should take Portugal to task for issuing its Bitcoin mark about 7 months ago. How dare they. Maybe we all should just make a list of the possible legitimate parties, and then you can turn thumbs up or thumbs down as to who can own the mark? Well then it is settled. No need for all those pesky trademark offices, and lawyers and such; just sadpandatech at the head of the line with thumbs up or down.
I really don't get your point though... What should be done here? Easy. As I have called for: Free, open, worldwide, unlimited license to all comers, on apps and registered marks of MtGox, relating to Bitcoin. It is what they promised with their cheesy press release. Could you imagine any other company putting out such a cheesy announcement? Torvalds did open trademark licensing starting about 15 years ago. Maybe MtGox needs someone to photocopy the LINUX trademark open license for them. It is such hard work, so complicated, so mysterious, and they are so very very busy in Japan. Not. Put up or shut up MtGox. Your excuses are pathetic. Oh, OK, sorry world, we really didn't mean a license now. Maybe some day; just hold your breath. Was it a slow news day in Japan? But don't worry you can trust MtGox. We are in it for the glory. That big fat profit, well, don't look too hard at that, it will hurt your eyes. What a joke. Boycott MtGox! |
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Why do you all refer only to Pascazi http://www.pascazilaw.com in your release when the Portugal mark has been registered already for many months, and the German firm applied for a Community Mark (27 Countries) before you, has priority over you, and has opposed your application? You all playing some sort of game? Looking to prod the US lawyer into a lawsuit? I smell a big Rat. Because there is a HUGE fucking difference between legitimate orgs dealing with Bitcoins registering to protect themselves and Pascuzzy whose sole intention was to STEAL it....... And who the fuck are you anyhows? I hate people that hide behind a new name to 'make a point' on the interwebs.... Well I feel better now knowing that you have ordained MtGox as worthy to obtain the Bitcoin trademark. How about Tradehill? CampBX? Or any one of the hundreds of Bitcoin entrepreneurs around the world? Are they not worthy? Are they not legitimate? Are some more worthy than others? Are you worthy? If a sovereign government issues a trademark, is anyone stealing anything? Maybe you should take Portugal to task for issuing its Bitcoin mark about 7 months ago. How dare they. Maybe we all should just make a list of the possible legitimate parties, and then you can turn thumbs up or thumbs down as to who can own the mark? Well then it is settled. No need for all those pesky trademark offices, and lawyers and such; just sadpandatech at the head of the line with thumbs up or down. Why the cursing? Does it make you any smarter? Does it make for a more compelling post by you? Not. Do you really care who the poster is if he/she has something interesting to say? Or even if it isn't interesting; just say jerk and move on. |
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MtGox's press release expressly refers to "filed for" marks. Those are not issued marks. Why use this term if you won't license "filed for" marks? It's your press release. It says what you want it to say! Of course your a world company. You filed for marks all over the world; have you not? Why file for a mark in Slovakia, for example, if not to tie up the Slovak market, and God knows how many other markets? As for your profits; show us all how little MtGox makes. Publish your 2010 tax returns. Post them here and on your site. Then if your profit is unimportant, donate it all, after tax, to the ICRC in Geneva, they do good works.
Boycott MtGox unless and until they issue free, perpetual, and worldwide licenses, on applied for, and registered Bitcoin marks! Do it for "the community". Do it now.
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I have little doubt you want the Trademark rights them for the very same reason Pascazi wants them, profit.
In this case, I think profit comes from the good publicity MtGox has been making by these undertakings. Even better if the rights are transferred to a non-profit. You're stone cold crazy if you think that Gox will simply give a way a valuable asset like Trademark after fighting so hard for it and spending money. Bravo! You said it. They ain't giving away nothing. They are in it for the money. Have no illusions. Good publicity is not profit; it leads to more profit. |
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The trademarks should be handed over to a non profit bitcoin foundation I have said all along.
A not for profit may be taken over by the State or dissolved for numerous reasons. Bad idea. Linus Torvalds (his foundation) has been handing out licenses on LINUX for about 15 years now. What is so hard and mysterious MtGox? |
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Has anyone else filed for trademark in the US? At this point, I think that would be a good idea.
US is a first to use system. Who exactly was first to use in the US? Not publish a paper but use in Interstate Commerce. And how exactly is that fact going to be proven? |
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I may sound like a broken record here, but we are working on this and it takes time... We really would love that things have moved quicker even in France (Please read the press release and you will understand why in France it is taking time).
This said, we will get back to you soon on this matter regardless of the outcome.
Cheers
Why do you all refer only to Pascazi http://www.pascazilaw.com in your release when the Portugal mark has been registered already for many months, and the German firm applied for a Community Mark (27 Countries) before you, has priority over you, and has opposed your application? You all playing some sort of game? Looking to prod the US lawyer into a lawsuit? I smell a big Rat. |
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Actually, I think the best outcome would be if mtgox applied for and was rejected the trademark. That would establish a clear ruling in the court systems that bitcoin cannot be trademarked and is free for anyone to use. I would hope that mtgox would recognize that this is the best possible outcome and would be supportive of efforts to oppose the trademark.
The mark in class 36 is already registered in Portugal. Already registered to other than MtGox. And a German firm filed before MtGox for a Community Mark (27 countries), in the EU, in a number of classes. Your proposed outcome has been mooted already. |
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With all due respect, I think I speak accurately for the community when I say I don't think we want to wait months to find out what your plans are. Hi Casascius, Unfortunately things are not "that" easy when it comes to trademarking (apply and/or oppose), time is a virtue here. For example it will likely take up to 6 month to get the final approval for our trademark. However, our "plans" will be announce sooner than that and from there you will have a clear picture of how things will be done. To add to this, if we go against our word we will have the whole community against us. It would be irresponsible on every level for us to enforce royalties or other terms on the ™ later on, which is why we're taking steps to make sure this isn't possible even in the event Mt.Gox is sold. You people announced your intentions 3 months ago on the French section of this board. 3 months ago! And again 3 days ago. Why announce that which you all won't deliver? Haven't you all engaged in deceptive business practices extending into the USA and EU? Your press release looks like a diversion. Draw attention to one country, France, while you secure marks in all the rest. The " trust me " mantra is a nice touch. Bernie Madoff said that as well. How did that work out for his clients? |
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Pour info Tibanne Co. Ltd. (basé au Japon) a commencé l'enregistrement en Europe et au Japon. Le but est d'enregistrer la marque "Bitcoin" pour en faire une marque libre (les conditions diront que "n'importe qui peut utiliser la marque Bitcoin a condition que cela référence la monnaie virtuelle Bitcoin créée en 2009 par Satoshi Nakamoto"). Notre intérêt est simple, en tant que MtGox on veut qu'un maximum de monde accepte des bitcoins  MtGox, où est la licence de marque libre et ouvert? 3 mois ont passé. Rien! |
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Thanx for the link. I'm no native speaker and I don't understand what exactly "License should be valid on successors and assigns." means but I read it as "successors of today's MtGox owners may use the IP titles however they please." Anyway I would feel best if the IP stuff would be handed over to some non profit organisation. If Gox runs bankrupt they can't decide about their IP anymore so better give it to some other entity before. And please, I'm not ranting about how you handle stuff. I'm happy you stepped up for bitcoin and have full trust in MtGox' best intents. In the end I guess even having to switch to TibCoin or any other name would not really harm the project. Screw those IP fraudsters. Successors & assigns means whoever comes after MtGox or whoever MtGox xfers the mark to in the future. Good thought on Bankruptcy. That too can be addressed by their smart lawyers. Ever think that perhaps MtGox points you to one mark by a third party while they round up the rest? Diversion perhaps? Remember Pearl Harbor. Japan talking peace with USA while the fleet steaming toward Pearl. Why should MtGox hold all the marks? What happens if MtGox sends cease and desist letters to the other exchanges or sues to shut them down? What will commission rate be then? I say boycott MtGox until they hand out free and open trademark licenses to all comers. |
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Hi
I have two concerns:
What if MtGox ownership changes? I would like to see the name BitCoin be released to the public domain so any later owner of MtGox will have a problem changing that policy.
(The OP has 8 posts. Who is it? I couldn't find a press releases section on MtGox.com. Would be happy to see it there, too.)
License should be valid on successors and assigns. Here is link to press release. https://mtgox.com/press_release_20111014.html |
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MtGox's press release says:
". . . [A]ll trademarks related to the term “Bitcoin” filed for and obtained by Tibanne K.K will be made freely available to anyone to use for whatever purpose whatsoever, whether that be for non-profit or commercial endeavours."
This ain't worth a sh^t without an enforceable trademark license. These are big boys with lots of cash, and lawyers around the world. Where is the license for us all?
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If MtGox will notarize and publish the press release stating that it formally intends to freely license the Bitcoin trademark for the usage we all expect it to mean, then I won't have a problem with them having that sort of trademark. And then PGP sign the hash of the PDF file they publish of the document.
Where is MtGox's free & open trademark license? They have trademark apps pending around the world. Post your license here MtGox for the world to see. A PGP sign of a hashed PDF is not good enough. No jury will understand that when it comes time to enforce. Your lawyers know better too. Post a free (make it US$1 or 1€ or 100¥, or 0.3BTC, so it's a legal contract), unlimited, & perpetual license, for each of us to fill in our name, sign, and return with our token payment. What are you waiting for? |
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This was my comment on the issue in the main forum: I know some are skeptical of MtGox's motives - many don't like that MtGox is trying to register trademarks.
However, I REALLY appreciate them stepping up and paying the money to do this. It is a huge service to the community to have MtGox willing to spend some of their profits on these types of fights. Kudos to them.
And to anyone who is suspicious - consider that if MtGox ever tried to corner the market by using its Bitcoin trademarks in a detrimental way, the community would drop them like a stone. It would be fully against MtGox's self-interest to so clearly abandon the trust of its userbase.
So, MtGox - thank you for fighting the good fight and good luck with these efforts. How could the community drop MtGox if they cornered the market? Isn't the point of cornering the market to gain a monopoly? Who else could sell you a bitcoin in Spain, for instance, if the mark were exclusive to MtGox in Spain? By the way they have a mark app pending in Spain as we write, which app has been opposed by a German company. I still have not seen their proposed free & open license agreement for filed & registered marks posted anywhere. Apparently, MtGox has not thought thru their bold pronouncement. |
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