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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Is UPS NECESSARY? Or Surge protectors enough? sudden power outage kill RiG? on: February 04, 2018, 03:52:29 AM
Yes there are 3 wires of ground, one is dedicated for rig,
What should the next step.

3 wires of ground?  A receptacle would have two power wires and one safety ground.  Safety ground does nothing to protect hardware and does nothing to make a protector effective.  It exists to protect you (human life).

That wall receptacle safety ground is completely different from earth ground.  A homeowner is responsible to know what earth ground is and to maintain it.

Find a bare copper, quarter inch hardwire that goes from the mains box (power board), outside, to an earth ground electrode.  If that does not exist, then no effective protection is possible.  And a serious human safety issue also exists.

All was simplified to a 'high school science knowledge' level.  But since new, then it must be read at least three times.  Rephrasing same here may help.

Quote
Once inside a house, that surge will find potentially destructive paths to earth.
 All protection is about connecting a surge to earth BEFORE it can enter.  That explains why an above bare copper hardwire is critical.

A 'whole house' protector is required to protect computers, to protect any plug-in protector, and to protect all other 'just at risk' or 'at greater risk' appliances.  Including a dishwasher, clocks, refrigerator, garage door opener, LED & CFL bulbs, furnace, recharging electronics, dimmer switches, central air (even when not in use), and every smoke detector.

Everything posted was learned in school.  High school math was defined.  What Ben Franklin demonstrated was taught in elementary school science.  What Franklin demonstrated is also what protects appliances and computers.  What Franklin demonstrated does not require expert language.  What Franklin demonstrated is also what you must do to properly earth every incoming utility wire via a 'whole house' protector.

That 'whole house' protector protects appliances for the same reason that Franklin's lightning rod protects a structure.  In both cases, protection is only as effective as (is defined by) earth ground.

Go to any big box hardware store or electrical supply house.  Ask the 'whole house' protector that they sell.  Then confirm it is at least 50,000 amps.  (Honesty is impossible without numbers.)

Last paragraph ('effective protector sold like rice') defines what must be purchased to effectively connect incoming utility wires to earth.  Best protection is distant from every appliance and as close as possible to earth ground.
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Is UPS NECESSARY? Or Surge protectors enough? sudden power outage kill RiG? on: February 03, 2018, 01:52:20 AM
First define the problem.  Where are hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly absorbed?  Single point earth ground.  Every wire inside every incoming cable must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to that ground before entering.

Your TV cable has always been required to make that connection.  Unfortunately some installers and electricians do not understand this.  That hardwire from the cable direct to earth ground is best protection.  No protector required.  That ground wire must be as short as practicable, have no sharp bends, no splices, not inside metallic conduit, etc - to make impedance low.

AC electric cannot connect direct to earth.  So a protector makes that same low impedance hardwire connection.  An effective protector does not do protection.  It only connects to what does protection.  That protector is only doing what a TV cable's hardwire does better.

2) If a surge is not inside, then best protection (already inside every appliance - every appliance needs this protection) is not overwhelmed.

3) Let's discuss impedance.  Assume a protector connected to a wall receptacle safety ground will somehow earth a tiny 100 amp surge via that safety ground wire.  That wire might be 0.2 ohms resistance.  And something like 120 ohms impedance.  100 amps times 120 ohms is something less than 12,000 volts.  Why less that 12,000?  Because that surge (due to 12,000 volts) must find better paths to earth.  One classic path is destructively through any nearby appliance.

So let's say that protector is 700 volts.  That means 12,000 volts on one wire and 11,300 volts on another.  Scammer love to manipulate numbers without discussing what it really means.

An IEEE brochure demonstrates this.  A protector, too far from earth ground and adjacent to a TV, earths a surge 8000 volts destructively through another TV in the next room.  Protector connected a surge to earth, destructively, via a best path to earth - a nearby appliance.

Once inside a house, that surge will find potentially destructive paths to earth.  Since that protector was too close (low impedance) to appliances and too far (high impedance) to earth ground, then an adjacent protector simply compromised better protection inside some nearby TV.

4) Protection is never about a protector.  Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate (harmlessly in earth) and the (low impedance) path that current uses.

Ineffective protectors with massive profit margins will not discuss this to protect profits.  Most consumers will not learn this because reality takes paragraphs - cannot be posted in a tweet.

What makes the 'whole house' protector so effective?  Its connection to earth is low impedance (ie wire length - not thickness - is relevant).  Connection from protector to appliance is long - high impedance.  That high impedance between protector and appliance increases protection.

5) We learned in school math about the independent and dependent variables.  The concept also applies here.  Independent variable (what defines protection) is current.  A dependent variable is voltage.  Voltage is only a symptom of what happens when the current flows.  The science of surge protection is about how that current connects to earth - for the same reason Ben Franklin's lightning rod is so effective.

Lightning seeks earth ground.  It finds a best electrical connection via a wooden church steeple  Wood is an electrical conductor - just not a good one.  So that lightning current creates a high voltage (a dependent variable) - destroys the steeple.

6) Franklin's lightning rod connected to earth on a wire.  Lightning seeks earth ground.  It finds a best electrical connection via that wire - an excellent electrical conductor. So that same lightning current creates a near zero voltage - no damage.   That same current will conduct no matter what - an independent variable.  Protection is always about (for example) how 20,000 amps connects to earth.  Either it creates a high and destructive voltage.  Or it creates a near zero (harmless) voltage.

Damage is due to a human mistake.  Because protection is always about how a current connects to and the quality of earth - as Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.

Finally, effective protector are sold like rice.  You don't need a model for rice or a 'whole house' protector.  That protector must have the dedicated wire to earth ground - that defines protection during each surge.  Since lightning can be 20,000 amps, then a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps.    That defines protector life expectancy over many decades and many direct lightning strikes.  That (not a model number or brand name) defines your best solution.
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Is UPS NECESSARY? Or Surge protectors enough? sudden power outage kill RiG? on: February 02, 2018, 04:15:30 PM
UPDATE1.
i saw his farm, he was using SINEWAVE UPS 2000VA for every RIG, from more than a year..
You have protection from a blackout.  So that unsaved data can be saved.  Transient and spike protection is still not installed.  Anyone can read specification numbers on that UPS.  It does not claim to protect from surges.

UPS is protection when AC voltage drops from 230 down to zero.  Surge protection is when AC voltage spikes well exceed 700 volts.  Protection from that anomaly must be located at the service entrance with (this is most critical) a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth ground.  Earth ground is not wall receptacle safety ground.  Earth ground is electrodes in earth.

Surges that do damage are rare - maybe once every seven years.  A number that can vary significantly even in the same town.  Geology is one relevant risk factor.

No plug-in protector claims effective protection.  Read its spec numbers.  Protection provide by a UPS is even less.  For well over 100 years, facilities that cannot have damage always properly earth the 'whole house' solution.  Then everything (not just miners) are protected.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

4  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Do you shut down your miners in a lightning storm? on: January 30, 2018, 02:25:54 PM
I cant seem to find an ethernet surge protector in a powerstrip or plug for 220volts. I would prefer that over a ethernet surge that has to connect to a ground connection
You are completely missing the point.
Quote
That safety ground is ineffective - as explained previously.
Quote
Protection means a surge current is not anywhere inside.  Once inside, then nothing (as in nothing) can avert a hunt for earth destructively via appliances.  Effective protectors always connect to earth BEFORE a surge can enter a building.  True today as it was over 100 years ago.

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No protector does protection - not one.
 Stop assuming a protector is protection.  
Quote
You are asking for a magic box solution.


Protection is always this:
Quote
Protection is always - as in always - about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Protection means a surge current is nowhere inside a building.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

If any wire enters without making that connection to single point earth ground, then all protection is compromised.  Does not matter if a protector is in a distribution box.  How long is a connection from each wire in each cable (ie satellite dish, telephone, TV cable, invisible dog fence) to that single point earth ground.  That connection must be low impedance.  And that only earth ground must be a best earth ground.

Again, protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate.   That is not a protector.  That is THE most CRITICAL device in your protection 'system'.  Most of your attention should focus on what does protection and the connection to that protection.  Then no surge is anywhere inside to overwhelm robust protection in every ethernet port.

Ethernet will withstand up to 2000 volt transients without damage.  Therefore all network switches have most robust protection.

But again, protection means a surge is not anywhere inside.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - including the impedance of that connection to earth.

A miner shutting down is irrelevant.  A UPS and a surge protector are two completely different and unrelated devices for completely different anomalies.
5  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Do you shut down your miners in a lightning storm? on: January 27, 2018, 05:42:38 AM
This looks good but can I guess I cant just attach the green ground wire to my metal shelf. https://www.amazon.com/APC-PNET1GB-ProtectNet-Standalone-Protector/dp/B000BKUSS8/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1517026095&sr=1-4&keywords=ethernet+surge
Grounding is not convenient.

That safety ground is ineffective - as explained previously.
Quote
You must confirm your earth ground is a single point earth ground.  That is THE most critical component of a protection 'system'.   Best protectors connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to that ground.  Wall receptacle safety ground clearly is not earth ground.  ...  Then no current is inside hunting for earth destructively via all appliances.

That APC must connect low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends) to earth ground.  Otherwise joules in a potentially destructive surge simply use safety ground to find earth destructively via any nearby appliance.

A wall receptacle ground is not and cannot be an earth ground.   Various grounds exist.  Motherboard ground is different from chassis ground is different from floating ground in other appliances is different from wall receptacle ground is different from ground bus in a breaker box is different from a static electric ground is different from earth ground.  Many are interconnected and still completely different.

One critical term is impedance.  Surges must connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground (all four words have electrical significance).

Protection means a surge current is not anywhere inside.  Once inside, then nothing (as in nothing) can avert a hunt for earth destructively via appliances.  Effective protectors always connect to earth BEFORE a surge can enter a building.  True today as it was over 100 years ago.

BTW, best protection at each ethernet port is already inside that port.  Your concern is a surge that can overwhelm that already existing, robust protection.  That is always done at the service entrance - a low impedance connection to earth.

No protector does protection - not one.  Effective protectors are connecting devices to what does that protection - single point earth ground.
6  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Do you shut down your miners in a lightning storm? on: January 26, 2018, 05:23:08 PM
Anyone have an opinion on these?
You are asking for a magic box solution.  You are not doing what is always necessary to have any honest answers - the whys.

Lightning is an electrical current that 3 miles of sky cannot block.  How do a millimeters gap in that magic box stop what three miles of sky cannot?

More numbers.  Destructive surges occur in microseconds.  At best, that magic box cannot respond any faster than 10 milliseconds - and probably requires much longer.

Anyone can learn from what has existed and is proven by over 100 years.  Your telco CO suffers about 100 surge with each storm.  How often has your town been without phone service for four days (after every storm) while they replace that $multi-million computer?

Obviously, direct lightning strikes without damage is routine in facilities that cannot have damage.  Plug-in magic boxes are not used to make surge damage easier.

View your own CO.  View incoming phone wires.  Notice how all wires go underground long before entering that CO.  Because surge protection is distant from electronics (up to 50 meters) and as close as possible to earth ground.  No protector (or magic box) does protection - not one.  Effective protectors are connecting devices to what does the protection.  Protection is where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed.

You must confirm your earth ground is a single point earth ground.  That is THE most critical component of a protection 'system'.   Best protectors connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to that ground.  Wall receptacle safety ground clearly is not earth ground.  Protection is about where hundreds of thousands of joules are absorbed - harmlessly outside.  Then no current is inside hunting for earth destructively via all appliances.

'Whole house' protectors come from companies known by any guy for integrity.  Lightning can be 20,000 amps.  So these minimal protectors are 50,000 amps.  A protector must not fail for decades after many direct lightning strikes.  This best solution also costs tens of times less money - about $1 per protected appliance.

Protection is always - as in always - about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Protection means a surge current is nowhere inside a building.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
7  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [40+PH] KanoPool kano.is BEST 0.9% fee PPLNS US,DE,JP,NL,NYA 🐈 on: January 24, 2018, 05:32:21 AM
edit: however, it only protects from spikes outside the house, it does not protect against surges that happen inside the house.
No.  It protects from all types of surges.  Even those rumored to be generated inside - for a long list of reasons.

Start with the most obvious reason.  How many appliances have been replaced today?  What damaged less robust appliances?  What protected GFCIs, dishwasher, clocks, furnace, recharging electronics, refrigerator, modem, LED & CFL bulbs, AC powered telephones (ie FIOS), garage door opener, TVs, and the most critical items if a surge existed - smoke detectors?   All those are suffering damage if internally generated surges exist.  Why not replaced daily?  Because internally generated surges are myths - intentional lies - generated to sell protectors that (otherwise) do not claim effective protection (such as APC).

If internally generated surges can damage those other appliances, then near zero joules in an APC are first to fail.

No protector does protection.  Not one.  That 'whole house' protector is effective because it makes a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground.  Then all types of surges - even a destructive hundreds of thousands of joule surges - are harmlessly absorbed outside.

For some reason, too many want to believe a protector must be between a surge source and its victim.  That implies a lack of basic electrical knowledge.  A surge does damage because it is hunting destructively for earth.  If any path to earth is not destructive, then all adjacent devices are not damaged.  What is a lowest impedance path?  That connection to earth (either by a hardwire with no protector, or by a properly installled protector) defines protection.

Earth a 'whole house' protector to do (more numbers - this time from the IEEE) 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection.  But, always, and again, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground (which obviously is not a wall receptacle safety ground).
8  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Are there 240v surge protectors and watt meters for American miners? on: January 05, 2018, 04:43:39 PM
I'd like to. That's why I created a topic titled "ARE THERE 240v surge protectors and watt meters for AMERICAN MINERS?" I mean, it's right there. I couldn't be more clear than that. I have explicitly stated that I am looking to spend my money on these products.

Unfortunately you have lumped many unrelated anomalies into one common topic.  No relationship exists between surge protection and those other anomalies.

Every layer of protection is never defined by a protector.  An effective protector is only a connecting device to what does the protection.  If that protector does not make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth, then it is not a layer of protection. An item that absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules is protection.

Words protector and protection have completely different meanings.

No power strip will discuss numbers that define protection.  How many joules does that 120 or 240 volt protector claim to 'absorb'?  'Block' or 'absorb' is what it must do.  Potentially destructive surges easily blow through such near zero devices.  Worse, an adjacent protector can compromise what is already superior protection inside every miner.  Yes, an adjacent protector simply gives a potentially destructive surge more destructive paths into a miner - directly into semiconductors.

How often have you replaced a dishwasher, furnace, GFCIs, clocks, microwave, dimmer switches, and smoke detectors?  Potentially destructive surges are rare - maybe once every seven years. Those other appliances say how often surges existed.  A number that can vary significantly even in the same venue.  Other anomalies (ie blackouts) have no relationship to and are completely irrelevant to a topic about hardware protection.

If no 'whole house' protector exists at the service entrance, then plug-in protectors are not protected. Even fire is an unacceptable possibility.  So many options exist.  'Whole house' solution can be part of each breaker.  It is usually installed on the breaker box on its own breaker.  Installed in the meter pan.  Or even rented from and installed by the electric company behind the meter.

That is your 'secondary' protection layer.  Also learn about and inspect your 'primary' protection layer.  A simple rule exists.  A protector (any protector) is only as effective as its earth ground.  Each layer of protection is only defined by earth ground - not by any protector.

Each layer of protection will always answer this question.  Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate?  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.  Effective protection always means no surge is anywhere inside the building.  Once inside, then nothing (as in nothing) will avert that destructive hunt for earth via electronics.  Facilities that cannot have damage do not waste money on adjacent protectors.  And always (as in always) properly earth a 'whole house' solution.

All this is unrelated to other power anomalies.  He has not derailed your thread.  You have combined a hodge-podge of unrelated and some completely mythcial anomalies into a single magic box solution.  Each should have been originally defined in separate threads.  A fear of smart meters should have been disposed when a fool or scam artist first suggested it to you.

9  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need Help - Looking for 240v Power Surge Protection on: December 21, 2017, 09:48:55 PM
Surge electrical current will take a lowest impedance (not low resistance) path to earth.  That path starts in a cloud (three miles up) and connects to earthborne charges (maybe four miles distant).   If that path remains outside, then all appliances are protected.

To keep that current outside, a connection from an incoming path (ie AC electric wire) must be as low impedance as possible to earth.  But that impedance can never be low enough.

50 meter separation means a higher impedance between protector and appliance.  Higher impedance created by separation means another and lower impedance connection to earth is a better path.  IOW protection increases due to higher impedance when a path from incoming AC electric wire and properly earthed protector has many times lower impedance on a less than 10 foot connection to earth.

Protection is always about this conductivity. When a best connection to those charges (four miles away) is a low impedance connection to earth, then almost no current need fight through high impedance on a 50 meter wire.  Then that current need not be inside.

That is conductivity.  Another relevant factor is equipotential.  Equipotential is why only one earth ground (single point earth ground) must exist.  Since we cannot make sufficient conductivity, then improve equipotential.  Since we cannot make sufficient equipotential, then better conductivity is required.

Best protection for cable TV is a hardwire connecting low impedance from cable to earth ground.  No protector is required.  Telephone wires cannot connect directly to earth.  So your telco installs a 'whole house' protector, for free.  That protector is only doing what the hardwire does better.  Effective protector does not do protection.  Effective protector is a connecting device to what does protection - earth ground.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

What sometimes makes it so difficult to grasp are the many erroneous concepts that promote plug-in protectors.  Those are sold as if a protector does protection.  The concept is difficult to unlearn.  Protection is not about the box.  The box is only a connecting device.  Protection is something not sold in stores - earth ground.  Unlearning what advertising promotes can be hard.
10  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need Help - Looking for 240v Power Surge Protection on: December 20, 2017, 04:01:46 AM
I mean, for fucks sake ... I told you earlier that I'm not an electrician. 
Apparently you want to be brainwashed.  Soundbyte answers are for brainwashing.  High school graduates are supposed to know better.

Required is basic electrical knowledge as learned by high school graduates.  You are expected to remember science concepts such as what Ben Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.  And what was taught about electricity in elementary school science.

Numbers require more knowledge.  Joules requires high school science.

Nothing new is understood until after three or more rereads.   Apparently you only read once - and then entertain anger.

Obviously said a 'whole house' solution is best protection. Apparently you want to argue rather than read.  That best solution also costs tens of times less - about $1 per protected appliance  What makes an protector effective?  That low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth.  One need not be an electrician to understand 10 feet.  That does not mean 5 pairs of shoes. But those who post profanity often have comprehension problems.  Read without that emotion and profanity.

Everything has been explained. Nobody is going to spoon feed you.  Keep rereading until you finally get it.
11  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need Help - Looking for 240v Power Surge Protection on: December 20, 2017, 02:03:58 AM
Surge protection is a huge concern for electronics in the typical home environment.
If true, we are all reading numbers in your post.  How many surge damaged appliances have you replaced this week or year?  No just appliances that failed.  You also identified what was damaged inside and what the current path of that surge was.  We did that even decades ago.  Which is why this post bluntly confronts so many only educated by hearsay, advertising, wild speculation, assumptions, no electrical knowledge, and junk science reasoning.

Why are you not replacing clocks, dishwasher, smoke detectors, garage door opener, furnace, and GFCIs daily?  You must if logic has validity.  A completely different reality exists once we include layman simple facts such as specification numbers.  Your concern is for an anomally that might occur once every seven years.  Because all those appliances already have robust protection (and no internal protector parts).


12  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need Help - Looking for 240v Power Surge Protection on: December 20, 2017, 01:57:53 AM
So bascially those whole house surge protectors that they sell at Lowe's and Home Depot aren't worth the money that you would spend on them because they only protect the breaker/fuse box?
It cannot protect a breaker/fuse box.  It is too close.  Best protection (ie found in every Telco switching center) is up to 50 meters distant from electronics.  Separation increases protection (as defined by a concept called impedance).

A scam is easy to promote.  If a protector is adjacent, then it is effective.  Reality.  A protector too close to appliances and too far from earth ground is least (ineffective) protection.  It can even compromise what is better protection already inside every appliance.

By dismissing what was only speculation, now reread why a properly earthed solution is effective.  Why protectors do not do protection.  And why a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.  Only then does one have an answer to this question.  Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate?
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need Help - Looking for 240v Power Surge Protection on: December 20, 2017, 01:41:16 AM
I would hope with that many rigs you are running quality PSUs and not some ATX garbage to power them.

Every power supply that meets ATX standard is superior to so many less robust or just as at risk appliances.  What protected the dishwasher, dimmer switches, furnace, door bell, vacuum cleaner, GFCIs, dryer, toaster, LED & CFL bulbs, garage door opener, central air, and clocks?  Why are those not replaced every month or year?  Because all appliances (especially all power supplies that meet ATX standards) remain function for decades.  How often this year have you replaced surge damaged smoke detectors?

All appliance contain robust protection.  Concern is for a rare anomaly, maybe once every seven years, that might damage some.  That is why informed consumers spend $1 per protected appliance for the properly and properly earthed 'whole house' solution.

Blaming the supply is too often due to not even identifying why a failure occurs.  Most ATX supply failures are due to manufacturing defects - which no surge protection (not even effective and properly earthed) can avert.

ATX power supply is a most robust electrical device.  Those other appliances are at much greater risk.
14  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need Help - Looking for 240v Power Surge Protection on: December 20, 2017, 01:30:40 AM
Westom, thanks so much for shedding light on what would seem like common sense.
I would anchor my kayak in some moving rapids at the end of the day.  Then sit there, facing upstream, watching raging water (and sometimes other boats) flow by while enjoying a beer.

One time, water had risen by a few feet (a dam release).  Suddenly I could no longer go up front to pull up that anchor.  The kayak would submarine.

I remember this next thought quite distinctly.  I have no idea how I am going to get out of this one.  Best part was waiting to learn how I did.  I had no doubt the problem would be solved.  And absolutely not a clue how it would.

That comes from years of addressing technical problems - especially electronics.  Having no idea how it was going to get fixed.  And yet knowing, without doubt, that I would solve it.

At the end is always this revelation.  Both obvious and simple.  I no longer ask, "Why did you not see it before?"  Because in life, simple and obvious solutions always follow what we never knew was possible.

Same applies to surge protection.  Most have never learned how protection really works.  Most only wait to be told how to think.  And therefore would still be anchored in those rapids.

Absolutely amazing how obvious and simple so many solution really are - once one learn how to break problems down into parts, learn why each problem must be understood long before a solution is even considered, and perspective.  Surge protection (as described) has always been that simple even 100 years ago.  Most difficult part is getting someone to learn how to solve a problem by first learning how to think through it.  Then one routinely sees both an insurmountable problem and an adventure - just waiting to see how that problem will be (without doubt) solved.

The most expensive protection devices do little to nothing.  Protection has always been about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly absorb.  That means a solution is never found in a magic box.  A protector is always and only as effective as its earth ground.  That is the '*of course*' moment.
15  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Power Supply and efficiency on: November 11, 2017, 01:05:00 PM
Is this true?   Should I invest in the 240V surge protector and cable(s)?  Just curious...
Any recommendation that also does not say why with numbers is often a myth or scam.

If using a 240 volt power source, then all cables must already be rated for that voltage.

What does a protector do?  Protector can make damage easier if located adjacent to a miner.  Protectors that are effective never do protection.  Those proven devices only connect a surge to something completely different that does protection - single point earth ground.  Protection is where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed.

Best protector for all 120 and 240 volt appliances is located at a service entrance with a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth.  If even one miner needs that protection, then everything in a house needs that protection.  With numbers that even define protection from direct lightning strikes.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground (which obviously is not a wall receptacle safety ground).  And typically costs about $1 per protected appliance.

16  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Avalon 741 needed rebooted on: October 30, 2017, 12:16:39 PM
View numbers.  Joules says nothing about power consumption of a PSU.  Joules measures energy absorbed from a surge.  Potentially destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules.  How many joules will those older and new power strips absorb?

Your miner would easily convert a hundreds or thousand joule transient into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power its semiconductors.  Transients that tiny are already made irrelevant by what is already inside electronics.  Your concern is a transient that is many times larger.  How many joules with that power strip absorb?

The most critical item on a power strip is its circuit breaker.  How many amps is that rated to provide?  How many amps does each miner demand?  Any decision without first learning these numbers is wild speculation resulting in a junk science conclusion.  What are the relevant numbers?

If a miner needs protection, then so do dishwasher, GFCIs, furnance, clocks, garage door opener, central air, vacuum cleaner, LED & CFL bulbs, refrigerator, dimmer switches, and everything else.  Protection (that safely absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules and remains functional for decades) should be considered.  This 'whole house' solution costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Only lights that say anything useful about AC power glitches are incandescent bulbs.  Power glitches can occur without lights on electronics reporting the anomaly.  Only a UPS would avert that anomaly.  Power strip protectors would do nothing.  Again, spec numbers define that.
17  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Rig kept shutting down, now wont even display on: June 24, 2017, 01:53:09 PM
So rig kept tripping my surge protector, doesn't matter which on I tried and it kept shutting down.
What trips?  Circuit breaker on a power strip?  That would be a 15 amp breaker.  Nothing larger is permitted or safe.  That also means you have hit the limit of what household receptacles can support.

Long before 'fixing' anything, first do some arithmetic.  Sum the current or power of every device on that power strip.

What else is tripping in a surge protector ... that is better replaced by a power strip without protector parts.
18  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Surge Protection Issue on: May 24, 2017, 01:56:07 PM
Will 60A sub with 4 quad circuits be sufficient for 4+ rigs?
You don't care what others believe.  You do the arithmetic.  If one rig is 1500 watts at 120 volts, then the arithmetic is easy.   1500 divided by 120 is 12.5 amps.  That means a receptacle (you did read the previous post) rated at 15 amps can only power one 1500 watt rig.  So one rig is powered by one receptacle and one circuit breaker.

Four breakers powering four receptacles means only four rigs - no more.  Again, never leave others to do your arithmetic.  You do the simple math.  Ask how to do that math.  Ask others to confirm your calculations.  Since only you (not even your electrician) is ultimately responsible for what happens.

19  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Surge Protection Issue on: May 24, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
Could I just buy a outlet adapter that supports 2 plugins or should I change out the outlet?
The standard NEMA 5-15 power receptacle (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fshowmecables-static.scdn3.secure.raxcdn.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2Fimage%2F700x460%2Fe9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe%2Fn%2Fe%2Fnema-5-15p-inlet.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.showmecables.com%2Funiversal-cpu-power-cord-nema-5-15p-to-c13-15-amp-25-ft&docid=kRcwejuRoUU6uM&tbnid=-rGkAyCPgRH-LM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiX_v3U0IjUAhUr9YMKHedAAHEQMwhwKAEwAQ..i&w=400&h=266&bih=558&biw=897&q=nema%205-15p&ved=0ahUKEwiX_v3U0IjUAhUr9YMKHedAAHEQMwhwKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8) cannot provide more than 15 amps.  All plugs are designed and installed to avert fire and other human safety issues.  Power strips (with or without protector parts) trip because a human has created a potential fire.

A receptacle powered by a 30 amp breaker must not be a NEMA 5-15 receptacle.  A 5-15 receptacle can only be powered by a 15 amp or 20 amp breaker.
20  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need Help - Looking for 240v Power Surge Protection on: March 30, 2017, 04:34:07 PM
 I take it you did not read the specifications of the 240V PDU digital logger is offering which includes Surge Protection 580J 25,000A MOV.
I take it that you completely ignored that 580 joule numbers until challenged.  And ignored previously posted numbers.  Nothing is hostile.  You ignored facts and did not post numbers. That is (at minimum) deceptive.

580 joule number defines a "near zero joule protector".  How near zero?  If any smaller, it must be zero.  But its joules are just above zero.  So it is promoted as 100% protection? Why?  You ignored numbers.

Also ignored:
Quote
An effective protector is only a connecting device to something completely different that actually absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules.
 And
Quote
Protection is always an answer to this question.  Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
Where is that PDU's low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground? No earth ground means no effective protection.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.  Again, where are hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly absorbed?

Nothing hostile.  An honest answer always says 'why' and with numbers.

Electronics will routinely convert a 600 joule surge into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power its semiconductors.  Protection (superior to what is inside a PDU) is already inside each appliance.  Concern is for a rare surge - maybe once every seven years - that can overwhelm superior and existing protection inside electronics.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed.  Then robust protection inside each appliance (refrigerator, dishwasher, dimmer switches, TVs, clocks, smoke detectors, etc) is not overwhelmed.  Then near zero joules in a PDU are protected.  This superior solution (always found in every facility that cannot have damage) costs about $1 per protected appliance.  But it is mostly unknown to many only educated by advertising and hearsay.

580 joules is near zero (ineffective) protection.  Tripplite and APC have more and still near zero joules.  Those companies also are not on a list of companies known for integrity - and effective protectors.  Worse, a PDU and those other protectors do not even have a low impedance (ie hardwire has no splices) connection to single point earth ground.  From over 100 years of well proven science and experience (another number): a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
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