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And again what do Nazi US regulations got to do with a company based in Slovenia with a bank based there aswell?
It has everything to do with US regulations, because Bitstamp deals in USD, and has many US customers. It would have to drop all of them, if it were to decide not to submit to Big-Brother Central regulations. Secondly, if you look at the Bitstamp TOS, you won't see Slovenia mentioned. You will see that they are subject to UK England laws under Regulation and Jurisdiction sections. Furthermore, it says that "The Services we provide are currently unregulated within the UK." So, if they have no regulatory pressure in the UK, they would not have announced verification right after the Bitcoin Foundation meeting with the Washington regulatory cabal. And please, no nonsense about how that was just a coincidence.  |
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@Nejc Kodric Please announce well in advance when you will be forced to comply with the US regulations, and require all kinds of verification even to withdraw BTC, the way gox was. I want to be able to leave Bitstamp before that hassle starts. Thanks.
Thank you for the advanced warning! Will withdraw all funds before that verification mess starts. It was nice on Bitstamp, while we were free of the Big Brother.  |
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@Nejc Kodric Please announce well in advance when you will be forced to comply with the US regulations, and require all kinds of verification even to withdraw BTC, the way gox was. I want to be able to leave Bitstamp before that hassle starts. Thanks.
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To me, it doesn't matter where I trade and I don't really care about the fees.
As long as :
Got buyers willing to pick up my asks.
Got sellers willing to pick up my bids.
:p
Whether you Got that or not is a function of liquidity and volume. Those are a function of professional trader activity to conduct current price discovery and speculate on fluctuations. The fees for that activity are a major cost to those professional traders, and influence the volume and liquidity of the exchange overal. So, for you the fees don't matter, but to pro traders and FYB itself they are key, and directly affect your trades also. It's not even true that you don't really care about the fees. To prove it, let's meet on bitcoin-otc, and I'll charge you the highest markup in the world for my ask. Let's see if you'll still be "willing to pick up my asks" and not really care about my fee. My point is that's also why FYB don't Got those most of the time. |
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There are reasons why bitcoin isn't picking up by local people in Singapore. Your currency has been relatively stable and your economic isn't build on Ponzi scheme like the US or Europe.
When people are not worry about their saving, why bother seeking alternative currency.
---------->
Because there is more to currency than "saving" a.k.a "hoarding" and "capital preservation". If you are a small importer in SG, buying say even from China or Japan. Try to send a payment to your export partner in those countries using SGD, as cheaply as you could using Bitcoin! Then try to send the same payment to Europe or the US! EVEN IF you pay 0.99% to a payment processor like BitPay to protect you from Bitcoin exchange voliatility, I think it would still be cheaper than using any other method available to a small business. |
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The problem is there is not enough volume, in regards to the website I understand what you are saying. Until the trade volume is substantial if not there will not be an improvement or any other new SG exchange
Start with Walmart and ask any successful company that trades in commodities: "If your trade volume is low in a worldwide market of a certain commodity, can your volume be increased by charging the highest markup in the world?" The answer is obvious to a school child. That's what FYB is doing though - charging top-level markup on a transaction in a widely available commodity. If they want more volume, it's exactly the wrong thing to do. It's so wrong to do from a business perspective, it makes me wonder if FYB is actually a Singapore government honeypot, which they hope to use to keep track of local btc flow.  If it's not, we've seen a lot of "exchanges" like that come and go in bitcoin land. |
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MTgox controls 80% of the trades, also Singapore doesn't have much of a base for Bitcoin, patience, you need to slowly win over the converts from MTgox
That 80% figure has never been true! Gox controls no more than 70% of major exchange trades now: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/That's not even counting Localbitcoins.com, Bitcoin-OTC markets, the new Buttonwood exchanges, meetups, and other private trades. How much market share gox has nothing to do with the fees FYB charges or how much volume it does either. Exchanges are not religions, where one has to be converted from one to another. Pro traders trade on multiple exchanges at the same time, IF the cost structure is right. |
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Ok, criminal masterminds, since bitcoin is supposedly only good for criminal deals, what would be the best way to use it while in prison?
I've seen those little paper wallets that are folded over and sealed, so that you can't see the private key. Maybe prisoners could trade those and just write on each one how much is in it. If one prisoner had a contraband android even without net access, he could verify the balances for everyone else as the local broker. And he could synchronize with the main chain via flash drives that are regularly smuggled in, or through a trusted guard...
Is there a better way? What are the risks, besides the obvious?
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These last few hours were exactly what I mean: I was trading this heavy downturn on 4 other exchanges - Bitstamp USD, RMBTB CNY, Ripple XRP, and BTC-e LTC. On every exchange I made money by taking manual short positions without using any kind of a trading bot!  It was hours of entertainment, and profit, even though BTC was crashing! In terms of SGD, at the main place of today's action - Bitstamp - the rate declined to 81 SGD, and now bounced back. At the FYB-SG "exchange" - NOT A SINGLE TRADE during those hours - the top bid stayed at 92SGD!  Pathetic! I wanted and would have traded this crash manually at FYB, if there were other traders or even their bots, but they will never come at these per-trade fees! Look at RMBTB - the latest Chinese exchange. It's even newer than FYB, but their fees are half those of FYB, plus they give a high-volume discount, AND they already have more volume! It's also a much better built site. Compared to that, FYB looks like some school kids hacked it out in their spare time... I really want to trade SGD at FYB, but they have to make it appealing for serious traders! My suggestion is that those school kids log into BitStamp, and make FYB work like that... |
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I think you failed to point out that we are at the mercy of the currency rate depending on who processes the deposit/withdrawals to whatever overseas exchange. And why do you keep attacking FYBSG. You should know how people are and how big the current btc market is like in Singapore.
Every other exchange is also at the mercy of the deposit/wdl processing. Yet their trading fees are much lower. That's not the point though: at FYBSB there is no api trading, and therefore no arbitrage to the exchanges overseas. So, there is no liquidity, plus much higher fees. That's preventing FYB from growing and keeps the rate artificially high. 92sgd has been at the top of the bids for hours now during a worldwide down trend, but no trades have happened at FYB in that price range. Until FYB becomes a real arbitraged exchange with an API that's actually used, and competitive trading fees, it's better for ordinary people just to exchange through LocalBitcoins.com or something. Right now, FYB is a joke, but wants to charge top dollar! The Singapore market isn't big, but the world of traders interested in trading SGD is... |
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Help it grow. Put in a bid / ask, if it's reasonable it will get filled pretty fast - regardless of what the orderbook looks like. I'm quite happy with their service so far and really hope they can grow the business and make it profitable.
Right now, a "reasonable" price according to the main exchanges is around 91-92SGD. Let's see how fast that gets filled. I already sold all the btc I wanted in order to see whether FYB is a good trading place. It works the other way around from what you say: if they lowered their fees, they would get more volume. The customer, which is the trader, and their competition, which are the other exchanges, drive that relationship, NOT what the exchange thinks it "needs" the fee to be. Pro traders only exit the exchange in fiat once in a while, but they trade continuously. So, the exit fees are much less important than per-trade fees. |
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I think it's still only amateurs or the exchange trading against itself at FYB-sg. That's why the price is staying so much higher during this last downturn. It would be about 5$ lower right now if there were professional traders, but they won't go there because FYB chages 3 times more than the BTC-e for example.
They say it's to cover development costs, but their trading interface is one of the lamest and most primitive I've seen.
The reason FYB is not growing is because they charge too much.
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But you need to get your fiat converted to bitcoin to begin with. Unless you want Bitcoin to only be for the miners or only for people who sell things to people who have bitcoin. In that case it is massive FAIL for bitcoin for anything but a very small niche market. Of course that is what is inevitable because the big Banks will make this happen but it's definitely not a good thing.
That's the point: if the banks will make this happen anyway, no need to continue deluding ourselves. I think it will not be a massive fail, but the exchange rate will be set against real assets, as it was in the 10k-pizza days, or whatever being sold on Bitmit and such. More than half the Bitcoins are already out there. So, it's not only the miners that can spend them. If you have goods or services that I want, I'll pay for them with Bitcoin, even though I am not a miner. So, it might just take more time for bitcoins to spread around, but I think it won't be the massive fail you predict. |
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Clearly you aren't an on-line merchant! No chance we'd support Bitcoin if we couldn't convert to fiat and the same will go for almost everyone out there.
Cool. Free country. (Well, not really free, but we all already knew that deep down.) If Bitcoin without fiat is only useful for buying drugs and occasional 10k pizzas, I think it's best we find that out now. No need to waste time. I bet it's useful for more than that though. Let's see. |
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I think this is good news! Let's get this party started! I hope they close all legal ways to trade for fiat.
Maybe then we'll finally be rid of speculators who are only in bitcoin to make fiat and cash out.
Maybe it will bring more people who are willing to buy and sell goods and services for Bitcoin, rather than converting it to fiat as soon as they get it.
Maybe not; it's time we find out though.
There are plenty other ways for us to value bitcoin, such as against gold and silver, other cryptocurrencies, digital gold currencies, or any other commodity and real asset. I think this is the way to finally make bitcoin a currency, rather than just use it as a fiat payment system.
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Buy BTC. Exchange for LTC @ btc-e or vircurex.
+1 That way you also get mixed LTC, disconnected from your fiat payment. |
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Direct payment in bitcoins, rather than in IOUs and without the need to deal with the ripple client. Anyway, if you know how to trade directly (I already posted explaining how and gave a link to it on my own main thread), don't sell to me.
Thanks! Wow, that's a 55% mark up for your service! Congratulations that some people actually seem to pay you that much for helping them! I agree with this guy though. It's not that complicated. People who can't figure out the ripple web site, probably should not handle any kind of money, because they might have some mental illness or are under drug influence. For 55% fee, they should contact their legal guardian, and have that person handle financial transactions for them, so that they don't lose all their money due to their unfortunate mental state. Thanks. |
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In many countries, the dot is used to mark thousands and the comma or also the dot to mark decimal digits. Since I wrote that you most keep 201 (without any dot or comma) I think it's clear enough that I mean 34799. Paying 0.50 btcs for less than 35 XRPs would be a little overpricing, wouldn't it?
Yes, thanks iamrickrock! I still have a question though: what is it that you offer so that it's worth it for me to pay you 69598 xrp for 1 BTC rather than pay 45000 xrp for 1 BTC directly inside ripple? Thanks. |
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I'm online and buying.
Do you mean 34.799xrp or 34799 xrp? If it's 34799, explain to me please what's the advantage for me to buy BTC from you, if you are paying 1 BTC for 69598 xrp, and BTC are selling directly inside ripple for 45000? Thanks. |
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